Trouble Maker Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 ... for the number of times I've cheated death. So I'm up in Baudette, Minnesota for two weeks for work and we decided to go to Winnipeg for the weekend for something to do. The roads were pretty nasty the whole way up, snowing and some drifting on the two-lane road. Once we got to the highway it was plowed and salted. But this just meant ice on the road and it was very windy at times. We were doing about 65 in the fast lane and this semi was going pretty slow in the slow lane. We were about to pass him and his cab just veered into our lane (his left tire was probably about where or right tire would normally be) and his trailer is a little sideways. I steered a little and slammed on the brakes in our POS Kia Sedona that doesn't even have ABS. I barley touched the trailer and steered out of the way of the cab. But at that point we were slightly out of control half way in the brake down lane, which was covered in snow. As we are going around him we start to oversteer and I counter steered each way about six times hoping that not only could I get control of it but that the semi wasn't barreling towards us still. Oh, I forgot to mention that there was about an eight foot drop off into the median that if we would have went into we would have been rolling. We probably came within a foot of dropping off of that, while we were ‘out of control’. I get the car under control and the mirror was pushed in. I thought we had just gotten so close that he touched the mirror enough to move it in (it's one of those mirrors the can fold in). We get to the hotel and look at the car and the plastic mirror housing has a huge gash in it and about a foot over on the hood there is a long scratch. So we were actually partly under the semi trailer heading for the back wheels of the cab. I’ll try to get pics when we go back to Baudette. I still can't believe we made it out of that. Be careful out there when the weather is bad, you never know what someone else is going to do… especially when they are driving something that weighs magnitudes more that you do. EDIT: It's obvisously supposed to be 'Chalk another one up', but I didn't catch it before I posted and can't edit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Wow...you're a lucky SOB. -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Wasn't 65 in an unfamilier pile of shit on unfamilier roads a bit fast in adverse conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Wasn't 65 in an unfamilier pile of shit on unfamilier roads a bit fast in adverse conditions? never.....noobie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyPimpstress1647545491 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 WOW, glad that you're ok. Can you try to come back in one piece please!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Wasn't 65 in an unfamilier pile of shit on unfamilier roads a bit fast in adverse conditions? It might as well have been 71. We were on a 2 lane, modern, highway. The roads were cleared off, albeit for an occasional spot of ice that the trucker seemed like he hit. It wasn't even snowing at that point. 65 was the speed limit (approximately, I think it was 100 or 110kph), perfectly safe, and what almost everyone else was doing... unless someone going quite a bit slower than you all of the sudden lost control and came into your lane. Not only that but I didn't know where I was going and following someone on the highway. It's all right, I knew I was going to get some comments like that. Somehow no matter what anyone post, there has to be something wrong with it or what they did. Cliff notes: Suck my balls Faigley. Wow...you're a lucky SOB. -Marc Yeah, that's exactly how everyone in the car felt afterwards (that we were all very lucky). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 That's some fast and furious shit right there Jesee, glad you guys pulled out alright. You need a spouse/kid before you die on buisnees, he gets mad cash if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Sounds like some good driving Jesse. Good recovery. Get back here safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 You need a spouse/kid before you die on buisnees, he gets mad cash if you do. nice. subtle dig, eric. careful jess. if you die, i have no one to put in a good word with your sister. <grin> seriously, watch yourself out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 That's some fast and furious shit right there Jesee, glad you guys pulled out alright. You need a spouse/kid before you die on buisnees, he gets mad cash if you do. You and Faigley can both burn in hell. Drunk, fuck all of you, haha! Oh, except for those that wished my safe return, thanks. Oh, except for maybe Dj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Stability Control ownz. If something like this doesn't sell you on that option I don't know what will. I'll never own another car without it. (at least my daily) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Stability Control ownz. If something like this doesn't sell you on that option I don't know what will. I'll never own another car without it. (at least my daily) See now i tend to turn mine off almost always. After the guardrail incident at the begining of the year, i turn it off. The DSA on the S40 not only controls the independent ABS, but it controls traction control, AND suspension stiffness. It basically takes any and all chance of you being able to minipulate the cars weight and balance away from you, and your just along for the ride. I mean on city streets going 25mph... its fine. Works great. On the highway... the car feals like dead weight.. it wont do anythign you want it to. Skills > DSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 You and Faigley can both burn in hell. Drunk, fuck all of you, haha! Oh, except for those that wished my safe return, thanks. Oh, except for maybe Dj. You wrecked a rental car in the snow and want sympathy? There are things you could have done to prevent it, like: A. Drive slower B. Stay away from semi's C. Not driven Don't go attacking us for pointing out your mistakes. I know this isn't the first time you've had a highway spin, and the last time there was nothing for you to shift the blame to. Chalk this up to not paying attention to what you were doing, but managing to save it enough that you didn't die. And leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 See now i tend to turn mine off almost always. After the guardrail incident at the begining of the year, i turn it off. The DSA on the S40 not only controls the independent ABS, but it controls traction control, AND suspension stiffness. It basically takes any and all chance of you being able to minipulate the cars weight and balance away from you, and your just along for the ride. I mean on city streets going 25mph... its fine. Works great. On the highway... the car feals like dead weight.. it wont do anythign you want it to. Skills > DSA Nope. In a situation like this a properly tuned stability control system would have kept Jesse straight instead of the ~6 fishtails he did. It would have caught him before he got too out of hand on the first one and would have kept him straight after that. Turning your stability control off for normal driving is about the dumbest thing I can think of. In an avoidance maneuver you will have much better chances with it on. For a car to pass NHTSA standards it has to go through a double lane change at 105% of the speed it can make it through with system off. You will make it through faster with system on, period. One of the Testing magazines I read at work had an interview with a manager at one of the car companies (I think it was Audi, not positive though) who said he challenged all his test drivers to make it around Nurburgring faster with system off and not one could do it. If your car felt like dead weight in your incident, then with system off you probably would have swapped ends. I work on these systems daily. It's my job to test and tune stability control on new cars. As a result, I've driven a great variety of vehicles into ESC events and I can tell you that 'superior driving' will always lose to the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 You and Faigley can both burn in hell. Drunk, fuck all of you, haha! Oh, except for those that wished my safe return, thanks. Oh, except for maybe Dj. ok, i see how it is. sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Nope. In a situation like this a properly tuned stability control system would have kept Jesse straight instead of the ~6 fishtails he did. It would have caught him before he got too out of hand on the first one and would have kept him straight after that. Turning your stability control off for normal driving is about the dumbest thing I can think of. In an avoidance maneuver you will have much better chances with it on. For a car to pass NHTSA standards it has to go through a double lane change at 105% of the speed it can make it through with system off. You will make it through faster with system on, period. One of the Testing magazines I read at work had an interview with a manager at one of the car companies (I think it was Audi, not positive though) who said he challenged all his test drivers to make it around Nurburgring faster with system off and not one could do it. If your car felt like dead weight in your incident, then with system off you probably would have swapped ends. I work on these systems daily. It's my job to test and tune stability control on new cars. As a result, I've driven a great variety of vehicles into ESC events and I can tell you that 'superior driving' will always lose to the system. Maybe i should take it to a track and find out... because it really does feal like dead weight... too the point where i cant throw it around and make it do what i want. I cant get the nose to dig in, i cant get the ass end to lift... its like a dead body or somthing. Dont get me wrong on dry pavement ill leave it on just because i dont really need it off unless i go to the strip. But when shit gets slippery... i dont feel like im in complete control. Im going to take my M3 on GT4 and see if i can mke it around Nurburgring faster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 The system only allows a certain amount of slip angle before it comes in. If you're oversteering (I'm guessing that's what you want it to do when you say 'nose dig in' and 'ass end lift') it will apply the outside front brake. This might make it feel like the car is pushing since it's doing it's best to keep the ass end in line. Tires also have a HUGE effect. If your tires area lot grippier then stock you might find the system intrusive since it doesn't expect you to have that much grip. In the end though you're still best leaving it on in case you find yourself in a situation where it saves your ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 The system only allows a certain amount of slip angle before it comes in. If you're oversteering (I'm guessing that's what you want it to do when you say 'nose dig in' and 'ass end lift') it will apply the outside front brake. This might make it feel like the car is pushing since it's doing it's best to keep the ass end in line. Tires also have a HUGE effect. If your tires area lot grippier then stock you might find the system intrusive since it doesn't expect you to have that much grip. In the end though you're still best leaving it on in case you find yourself in a situation where it saves your ass. well when i say nose dig in... i dont realy mean oversteer. Try this... when it dry , go around a down hill on ramp onto the interstate, and really push. Once you feel like your about to brake loose and push out, tap the brake pedal. Youll see and feal exactly what i mean. The cars ass end doesnt kick out, it just sort of... comes around. Its like you just put another half inch of tire on the front or added another 100lbs of tension to the springs. Ass end lift is really something that allows you to point the front end in a direction that normally wouldn't be possible w/o the ass end rolling over thus losing control. Its more like letting it float around at near full travel so that the front end can move say a foot in either direction, while the ass end only follows 3 or so inched of it... This too can be initiated by just taping the brake at the appropriate moment in the entry of a set of multiple turns... like a really shallow slalom... make any sence??? I dont think im doing very good at describing it to be honest Tire wise i did go from a 215/50 to a 225/50, and went from Comp/Traction TA's, to a set of yoko ES100's... a much sticker tire. So you could be right, my choice of tire could make it feel like a dead stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 yeah, what you describe sounds like lift-throttle oversteer. (initiated by lifting throttle or tapping the brakes causing wieght transfer to the font tires) The 'turn in' you're talking about is caused by the ass end rotating out aka oversteer. Yes, in FWD this is recoverable by just getting back on the gas to pull through the turn. The problem is the computer doesn't know your intention. It only sees your yaw rate jump past what it knows to be allowable so it hits the brakes in order to put you back on your intended path. You're best not breaking mid-turn ESC or not. As you know, smooth is always faster. With ESC on as you go faster around that on ramp the computer whould see you start to push and start applying the rear inside brake to counteract it. This allows you to go around it faster with system on while not attracting the attention of Johnny Law because your drifting the on ramp. Tires make a big difference, so if you think the system is sensitive that could be the reason. If your car has a 'sport mode' try that instead of full off. The thresholds should be greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 You wrecked a rental car in the snow and want sympathy? There are things you could have done to prevent it, like: A. Drive slower B. Stay away from semi's C. Not driven D: See my cliff note from above. I wasn't asking for sympathy, just relaying a story. I did thank those that offered sympathy, that's just the polite thing to do. There wasn't anything wrong with how I was driving, or how fast I was driving. A semi lost control and came into my lane, I'm sure that's somehow my fault. If you want to talk about this anymore, call me. You don't act like this in person, only online. I don't appreciate it when people act condescending towards me to try to make up for their own insecurities and I do take it very personal when it's someone I'm supposedly friends with. You've done this on more than one occasion and it's just annoying. Fucking Douche Bag. As for that other incident, you have no idea about the whole story obviously. I felt extremely luck after that and horrible towards everyone that was around when it happened. I made a huge mistake and offered up a very sincere apology to everyone that was there. Thanks for bringing something up that’s two years in the past that everyone else had basically forgotten about (except for some friendly occasional ribbing that I don’t mind). I’m sure you’ve never done anything even remotely like either incident (see condescending towards others to make up for insecurities because they are ‘perfect’). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 yeah, what you describe sounds like lift-throttle oversteer. (initiated by lifting throttle or tapping the brakes causing wieght transfer to the font tires) The 'turn in' you're talking about is caused by the ass end rotating out aka oversteer. Yes, in FWD this is recoverable by just getting back on the gas to pull through the turn. The problem is the computer doesn't know your intention. It only sees your yaw rate jump past what it knows to be allowable so it hits the brakes in order to put you back on your intended path. You're best not breaking mid-turn ESC or not. As you know, smooth is always faster. With ESC on as you go faster around that on ramp the computer whould see you start to push and start applying the rear inside brake to counteract it. This allows you to go around it faster with system on while not attracting the attention of Johnny Law because your drifting the on ramp. Tires make a big difference, so if you think the system is sensitive that could be the reason. If your car has a 'sport mode' try that instead of full off. The thresholds should be greater. Agreed. The time i do this stuff though isnt while in the manuver, but before it... to put the car in a "proper" position for the task at hand. Im curious to do some testing now... i need to find the proper road.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Haha, funny update. We came back up here last week, went back for the weekend. Came back again today. The lady at the desk noticed the name of the guy renting the car was the same as last time. She said she went out and looked at the car we damaged, and didn’t see anything so she threw the paperwork out. This is what the mirror looked like, which we specifically told them about. http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/531/dscn80868ov.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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