Disclaimer Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080730/ap_on_go_pr_wh/housing_billThe most important quote in the article (as far as I'm concerned):"The measure, regarded as the most significant housing legislation in decades, lets homeowners who cannot afford their payments refinance into more affordable government-backed loans rather than losing their homes."I understand that this was caused because not one or two people did this, but MILLIONS of Americans are in over their heads. What pisses me off is that the rest of us that live below our means don't get a REWARD for it. As far as I'm concerned, either we all should get some sort of positive reinforcement for paying our mortgages, or those people who spent too much on their homes to keep up with the Joneses need to have SOME repercussions for their financial irresponsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 well so far as i understand it, the ones who are just barely over their heads will reap the most benefit...the ones WAY over their heads are getting toasted either way, and it doesn't apply to anyone else...I'm still waiting it out, I'm gonna purchase a house once this market bottoms out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Yea, maybe I'm just bitter because I bought right before the market crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 you had no way of knowing...Housing/real estate market was the ONLY rock stable thing in this country that showed significant gains every single year, one of the safest bets you could make...It'll pick back up and stable out, no worries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Had no business not getting a FIXED rate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVTPilot Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 This hits rather close to home for me, as my wife was an underwriter for the local 2nd mortgage division of a large national bank, who was recently let go along with 131 other employees thanks to the market crash. Her bank was one of the very few national lending organizations that did not offer subprime loans, or underwrite them for brokerages. However this still did not keep the sudden and massive change in the market dry up their business in a hurry. So thanks to the banks that did get into the subprime business and foster predatory lending, the mother of my kids is hunting for work in a market where her bank was the very last one to have it's bloodletting take place, and the market is flooded with folks with her jobskills. Suffice it to say, she has begun looking out of state. More than likely, she is looking at a career change rather than a relocation, because Cleveland isn't the only town with banks shedding underwriting departments. And I do agree that the average American taxpayer is getting stuck with someone else's mortgage bill here, but the domestic problems here are the manifestation of larger federal government faux paxs. Unmitigate investments in a war that has no direction, band aid economy stimulators, and tax cuts for the insanely wealthy are all contributors to this. And think how shitty it must be for some. Usually, when things are tight (as they may be headed in my house soon), folks stop paying things like the credit cards, or cut back on grocery bills. If you stop paying for the roof over your head, how fucked are you? Sure a lot of homebuyers were duped into getting mortgages for homes they couldn't afford, but a lot of them got the information to make those decisions from the ususal places you go for that kind of knowledge, hence new predatory lending laws. Which brings up now the fact that the government is about to get more involved with your lives than before. Thanks to how they failed to do things right before, they now find themselves forcing issues on the back end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 You paint an interesting picture RVTPilot, sorry about your wife's hardships.I agree with you, and find it ironic that Republicans are usually "anti-government involvement" in the private sector, and yet we're getting more and more into a police state on the Republicans watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVTPilot Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Very true, JRMM, and thanks for the comment about the missus.I think either way our gov't is headed at this point, either party is going to begin to stick their mits further into John Q. Public's pie. And how much closer to home can you get than the roof over someone's head? And I will also say that it is still ultimately up to the consumer to educate themselves, but when the educators are in on the fix, it makes it hard for those who have limited resousrces for information to go any other direction that the one they were steered into. And, as we motorcyclist often see, common sense is a dying attribute amongst the general population. I mean c'mon?! Does someone actually think you can get by forever making only a $800 or 900 a month payment on a $300k house? Do some freaking math!Ugh. I need a beer. And it's just now noon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 And I do agree that the average American taxpayer is getting stuck with someone else's mortgage bill here, but the domestic problems here are the manifestation of larger federal government faux paxs. Unmitigate investments in a war that has no direction, band aid economy stimulators, and tax cuts for the insanely wealthy are all contributors to this. And think how shitty it must be for some. Usually, when things are tight (as they may be headed in my house soon), folks stop paying things like the credit cards, or cut back on grocery bills. If you stop paying for the roof over your head, how fucked are you? Sure a lot of homebuyers were duped into getting mortgages for homes they couldn't afford, but a lot of them got the information to make those decisions from the ususal places you go for that kind of knowledge, hence new predatory lending laws. Which brings up now the fact that the government is about to get more involved with your lives than before. Thanks to how they failed to do things right before, they now find themselves forcing issues on the back end.Sorry for your issues, but what you said up there makes lots of sense yet I have to disagree with putting any of the blame on the war. Yes, it has no direction and it's costing us big time....But the mortgage crisis is simply an issue of what you said "home buyers were duped into getting mortgages for homes they couldn't afford"..Each of us that own homes sat at the closing table and was told what loan they were signing for. People who got those 2/1 buy downs, 3-5-10/1 arms had to know it was going to eventually get out of hand. Problem was they were most likely over extended to begin with and honestly knew upfront they would not be able to afford an increase. Hoping before the rate change they could refi and be ok....well, already over extended people fail to realize a refi is like buying a totally new house w/ the debt on your record from the current loan. Hell most people barely got financed for the first loan, which makes it damn near impossible to refi. Is it a bad situation....yes and it does suck, but it could have been avoided, if they didn't have to get that house in that area for that school or to be close to those people. No one knows your finances like you and when we make large purchases the thought of "can I really afford this" even though I was financed for it has to come to mind.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVTPilot Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Quality reply, Putty. Cheers!I will somehwhat agree to disagree with you on the mortgage crisis being as simple as only aspects of the mortgage industry. Had the economy not entered such a violent tailspin, exacerbated by things such as the overgrown war budget, a dwindling employment rate, and other factors, the popularity of such loans would not have been as prevalent. And when you offer such a volatile option to the pool of homebuyers, which is littered with a myriad of potential credit trainwrecks, this is the end result. I know some folks personally that played the wait-it-out game with the fed rate and got by, but they were sweatting. And these are folks that make a helluva lot more money than I do. Just makes me wonder how overextended they are. I'm not about to say that I am perfect and don't have my fair share of bills and whatnot, but it's amazing to hear about some of the things people do with their finances and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 My reply was not a bash towards you in anyway nor am I naive enough to think the war has nothing to do with this mortgage crisis. I am simply saying that a lot of people put themselves and their families in homes they truly could not afford. Dominion showed me the next series of home when I built....Also told me how I could get into it for close to what I was going to pay for the house I have.....guess how....with a damn 3/1 arm....She tried to tell me all the benefits of it blah blah...My response to that was "NO". I want to know what my mortgage will be until the home is MINE. If I lose my job, God forbid, and I have to sell lemonade on the corner....I know exactly, to the penny, what it costs me monthly to keep a roof over my head..with that, I left the bigger home. The current economy situation is going to expose a lot of people that are over extended. I have a friend that was paying $1500 a month and it increased to $2200.**...who the hell could afford that kind of increase in a payment..with all other shit it takes to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I almost laugh at the predatory practices of selling people 'dreams' rather than reality. The new home builders in this area do the same. "Worry about that later" attitude. Payments might increase? - meh worry about it later.Car dealers are just as bad - "You don't want the Cobalt, get the Escalade - your payments are almost the same" (except it goes from a 48 month term to 84 months) And people bite on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I almost laugh at the predatory practices of selling people 'dreams' rather than reality. The new home builders in this area do the same. "Worry about that later" attitude. Payments might increase? - meh worry about it later.Car dealers are just as bad - "You don't want the Cobalt, get the Escalade - your payments are almost the same" (except it goes from a 48 month term to 84 months) And people bite on it.It should be illegal to do this to poeple. The reality is the salesperson does not really care. They get their money...then you are stuck looking like an idiot with a car worth $15K and you owe $27K or you're one of the 400,000 people dealing with a mort reset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I knew what I could afford when I bought my car...I had a pretty good job at the time, but I calculated all my finances out to what I could afford at minimum wage (in case I lost my job and I had to go back to the grocery sector) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVTPilot Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 My reply was not a bash towards you in anyway nor am I naive enough to think the war has nothing to do with this mortgage crisis. I am simply saying that a lot of people put themselves and their families in homes they truly could not afford. Dominion showed me the next series of home when I built....Also told me how I could get into it for close to what I was going to pay for the house I have.....guess how....with a damn 3/1 arm....She tried to tell me all the benefits of it blah blah...My response to that was "NO". I want to know what my mortgage will be until the home is MINE. If I lose my job, God forbid, and I have to sell lemonade on the corner....I know exactly, to the penny, what it costs me monthly to keep a roof over my head..with that, I left the bigger home. The current economy situation is going to expose a lot of people that are over extended. I have a friend that was paying $1500 a month and it increased to $2200.**...who the hell could afford that kind of increase in a payment..with all other shit it takes to live.Believe me. I didn't take your post as any form of bashing. Quite the contrary. I am all for a good debate now and again, and while I would vernture that you and I are far from polar opposites on this issue, we just have some variarions between opinions. You stated your points and backed them up. That is more than most folks that engage in these types of conversations. And what you speak to with your friend's mortgage, I have some myself in similar situations. If my paymeny went up $700 I wouldn't know what to do. But being married to someone who knows the industry, we were thankfully educated, and have tried to help friends and family whenever we could. Just becuase of shit like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I knew what I could afford when I bought my car...I had a pretty good job at the time, but I calculated all my finances out to what I could afford at minimum wage (in case I lost my job and I had to go back to the grocery sector)But that's not good enough for most people, especially because that involves having a smidgen of responsibility. Granted, some things are beyond your control (take RVT's case for instance), but in general people have entitlement complexes. They deserve to drive the latest and greatest cars, have the biggest houses in the best locations just like they see "everyone else" has. It's all image. Forget about the "What if..?" scenarios.And it's rarely just ONE thing - people that default, rarely is just the house, or just the car. It's the house, car, credit cards, electric bill, etc. etc.:beathorse: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 But that's not good enough for most people, especially because that involves having a smidgen of responsibility. Granted, some things are beyond your control (take RVT's case for instance), but in general people have entitlement complexes.+1 They deserve to drive the latest and greatest cars, have the biggest houses in the best locations just like they see "everyone else" has. It's all image. Forget about the "What if..?" scenarios.And it's rarely just ONE thing - people that default, rarely is just the house, or just the car. It's the house, car, credit cards, electric bill, etc. etc.I'm like that to an extent, image is important to me, but I'm frugal about it...and try to stay above water...first example: My car, it's a Red Metallic Cadillac Eldorado, But it's a 97...brand new it cost $42,000, I paid $5000 for it... similar image for 1/8th the price is a pretty good deal...second example: My bike, Hyper-sport Honda (again red metallic) not sure what these things were brand new, but I got it for $5500 and it looks new...(aside fom upgrades and a little wear/tear)People just have to start using their heads more and stop blowing money on stuff that isn't going to hold any value... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 +1, thats how I roll. Frugal - that's a good word. I want to always live below my means rather than just keep spending more and more on image stuff each year.My parents taught me early on when I asked why my friends and their parents have all these new cars and toys and whatnot. They explained that we may not have a lot of the newest and latest stuff, but it's all PAID for! 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarron77 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 +1, thats how I roll. Frugal - that's a good word. I want to always live below my means rather than just keep spending more and more on image stuff each year.My parents taught me early on when I asked why my friends and their parents have all these new cars and toys and whatnot. They explained that we may not have a lot of the newest and latest stuff, but it's all PAID for! 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 well, I'm not quite "paid for" yet, still owe about 3000 on the car, and about 20,000 on college, but I know people who are paying 20,000 a fricking year, so 20k for 2 degrees was a steal...subtract my bank account from my debt, and I'm in the hole about $21,000...give or take a few hundredI should be out of debt before I'm out of my 20's, assuming I don't sign up for a mortgage...I'm gonna try to save rock a "mega" down payment when the housing market bottoms out, or maybe just buy a big spot of land and build my own place...we'll see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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