Orion Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 http://thatvideosite.com/view/2602.html are you kidding me? a blowtorch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 ........ http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25710 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I've made it myself, and you can too. I's not complicated. But to turn about 1/4 cup of water into HHO, it burns through 6 D batteries. You can got to the Discovery Store and get a kit that launches rockets with HHO. This is a viable option, if and only if you utilize nuclear power to provide the juice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Geothermal. Solar. Hydroelectric. Nuclear. Centrally produce the HHO in mass and distribute the HHO to consumers. It takes a larger amount of energy to electrolyze the water to HHO than you get out of burning the HHO. Hence, don't try to put the HHO production on the car itself. Perpetual motion machines are a fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Hence, don't try to put the HHO production on the car itself. Why not? I'd rather have that then an electric car. I dont care what it takes to electrolyze the water, build more reactors, I dont want a car that goes "wiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Wow, what an exaggeration. "Hotter then th surface of the sun!" Ha ha, yea fucking right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Run the car on HHO, just don't produce the HHO on the car as well. Because then you're not only carrying an internal combustion engine to burn the HHO (which we are all familiar with), but also a tank HHO, a BIG tank of water, and the electrolysis machinery on the car.... Enjoy that. And dream on about personal nuclear reactors. But even if you did power the electrolysis from a fission pile in the trunk of your car, you're still toting around extra weight you don't need to. Fill 'er up with HHO at your local filling station, just like we're all used to, and let er rip. Exhausting crisp, clear, eco friendly water all the while. Toting your own electrolysis buys you nothing. Oh you're still polluting nothing... until you wreck and spew the 6 lbs of enriched plutonium in your trunk across the intersection... No reason to not make the HHO itself in an eco friendly manner using a renewable non-polluting energy source such as geothermal or solar or hydroelectric. And the trucks transporting the HHO to your local filling stations would run on the same stuff. Mother earth thanks us all. ...but if you think you're going to dump an electrolizer on your car and all you need to do it fill it up with tap water and zip off. Nope. One cannot run the electrolysis off the energy of the produced HHO. At the best efficiencies you can imagine you will get almost enough energy out as your putting in, but you're still going to slowly lose energy over time. And getting equal in-out energy returns is impossible - that's a "perpetual motion machine". Regardless, there is no energy surplus to power the car's motion. So how to power the electrolysis.... portable nuclear? Lets not hand out fuel grade uranium to the masses, shall we? Centralize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted June 10, 2006 Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 And dream on about personal nuclear reactors.....portable nuclear? Lets not hand out fuel grade uranium to the masses, shall we? Centralize it. Who the hell said anything about that? I was referring to producing HHO in mass, getting the juice for the reacton from a plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted June 10, 2006 Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 Wow, what an exaggeration. "Hotter then the surface of the sun!" Ha ha, yea fucking right. Yes, that is a bit of a stretch, like less than half the amount. The suns surface is about 10000 F, an Oxygen Axylene torch, not cutting, is about 5500 F. A mix of Hydrogen and Oxygen burning is about 4500 F. In fact they use to use hydrogen oxygen gas welding to do aluminium welds because it's a bit easier to control and there is no carbon in the flame at all. As far as the water powered torch, this guy is about 20 years to late. I assume that no one here does any Goldsmithing or works on jewelry. If you did, you would know that there has been water torches for a long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torch You will notice this is already registered with the US patent office. As far as carrying water and the conversion of water to its molecular components, the numbers are staggering in the requirements of energy to get it to happen and to produce hydrogen gas in significant amounts. Can it be done? Yes. Is it really cheaper? Weel the jury is still out on that one. The guy was right about using nuclear power to create the hydrogen, and actually on two counts. Because of the heat output available in a reactor, water can be directly converted to hydrogen and oxygen in a reactor. The biggest concern at Three Mile Island was not a melt down, which the reactor could have endured, but instead a large bubble of hydrogen gas in the core containment building that threatened to blow the containment roof off the building and exposing the core, which WAS what occurred at Chernobyl, but the explosion was caused by a different thing. What I am getting at is this, you can't create enough hydrogen to both power a car, and power the electrolysis unit that is creating the hydrogen to begin with. This is what Mowgli was referring to, but wasn't exactly right. Perpetual motion machines are devices that create there own energy to operate, and to do other work. And they don't exist. An example would be a generator that was running an electric motor that was powered by that generator. Once it was set into motion, it would run until the power from the generator was turned off to the motor, but it's not a reality. The additional losses with wire resistance, the friction of the bearings in both the generator and motor would quickly bring the device to a halt. And nothing like that exists that would not only create it's own energy but power something else as well. That is what I think he meant to say. You can't power an electrolysis machine with the very hydrogen it's creating and power a car at the same time. It would be like a fuel refinery using the fuel it refines to refine other fuel, its output could not keep up with its demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted June 10, 2006 Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 Oh yeah, I forgot, before someone says "But he was cutting steel with it." Remember that torch burning is oxidizing. The metal only needs to reach melting temperature, about 2700 F to begin to burn in tne oxygen rich enviroment under the tip of a cutting torch. ANyone wishing to argue this point is welcome to come out for a demonstration where I will begin to cut steel with a torch and they can then shut off the fuel to the torch. The flame will go out but I will continue to cut, because the axylene is NOT cutting, the metal is the fuel source once the button is pushed on the torch releasing the oxygen at the tip of the torch. And that temperature is about 6500 F, almost double the Hydrogen Oxygen flame temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.