mmrmnhrm Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Anybody use these over stock paper filters? As commented in my dyno thread, it's one of the things that I've been considering should initial reports come in favorable, and so far, it's looking like a good acceleration booster with no efficiency penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I used the replacement K and N on the RX 7 before I went to an open intake. It made a differance. Not only did I hear the turbos spool, the throddle response was noticeable. I've been meaning to put one in the daily driver, but it's one of those things on the to do list. I know Carl just bought some and they look great and are very compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Make sure you clean it every few months.. And go easy on the oiling of the filter. Too much and it can fuck up your MAF royally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 And go easy on the oiling of the filter. Too much and it can fuck up your MAF royally. true story!!! dont over oil , and honestly they work better dirty! lab tests have proven it! and the k&n filter charger kits are the shit! I can get better prices on them then jegs can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rice Eater Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Like gearhead said, KN have tested them dirty and they flow better dirty than the best paper filters do brand new. Heed the oil warning, you can tell a difference the day you oil them from after a few hundred miles when the oil dries some. The oil makes them very restrictive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lustalbert Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Future upgrade for the brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS50 Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 If you have a Lexus use extra oil so I can sell some MAF sensors.Joke.I put them in all my cars just for the fact you don't have to buy filters again plus you can tell the difference.It is usually my first upgrade on every car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted June 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Sounds like a pretty enthusiastic "ohhh yeeaahhh"... now if you can just tone down the language for us worker bees who have nothing better to do during lunch. This thread isn't marked NWS, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Like gearhead said, KN have tested them dirty and they flow better dirty than the best paper filters do brand new. Heed the oil warning, you can tell a difference the day you oil them from after a few hundred miles when the oil dries some. The oil makes them very restrictive! well read the instructions!!! clean and wash it let it dry. oil lightly and let sit for a day or so!!! keep the stock paper as a few day back up! (the only issue i have with the CIA kits, is you cant do this little trick ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 CIA kits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Cold Air Intake system! http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=24477&parentCategoryId=10269 like these! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Ahh, ok, another mod I was thinking of in the dyno thread. Eli commented that he's got a bunch of ideas on how to get more out of IMA systems, but he's been mum since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeGT Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 ive heard the filter chargers are complete wastes of money. ive seen dyno sheets where the paper filters have actually performed better. i dunno if i'd be ready to fork over around $40 for a permanent air filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rice Eater Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 They actually come pre oiled now. When I bought my first one back in 1990 you had to oil them the first time yourself. I still have the same can of oil, on my second bottle of cleaner. Do they not pre oil the cai kits like the regular replacement filters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 They actually come pre oiled now. When I bought my first one back in 1990 you had to oil them the first time yourself. I still have the same can of oil, on my second bottle of cleaner. Do they not pre oil the cai kits like the regular replacement filters? My cai kit said it was pre oiled but it was dry when i removed the plastic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 this is a test on a diesel but applies to any k&n filter: http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm I won't use k&n filters at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 :eek2: :barf: Talk about a rude wake up call... that thing's passing so much dirt I don't even know if it deserves to be called a filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 this is a test on a diesel but applies to any k&n filter: http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm I won't use k&n filters at all. And how many millions did gm spend designing the duramax setup ? A fucking lot! thats why the ac delco filter is so much damn money. gm made it so nothing would out perform it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1647545493 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 So K&N is all marketing and no performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 that test is just on the duramax.... id like too see other types tested. before i pass judgement, ive had nothing but good from them and they havent failed me yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rice Eater Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 OK, I'm not spending hours to analyze all those graphs, but...What size were the actual particles that were passed? at some point the particles are so small that they don't affect the engine. Just like the oil filter, some say they take out a certain size particle, Moroso addresses that in thier literature by stating that once a particle gets so small it does negligable harm to your engine. I run Moroso racing filters because they are made to withstand the high pressures of my high pressure pump. I tried another brand and I lost 20psi cold and about 15psi hot. When I tore my engine apart at 30,000 miles, everything looked great in there. There used to be a commercial on TV, for what I don't remember. It had this line, that I follow in pretty much everything I do... "When you find something that works, That's what you use!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted July 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 1 micron is 0.001mm, and according to http://vettenet.org/knfilter.html, the ISO 5011 test has particles ranging up to 200mics. I get where Rice Eater's coming from... something .001mm big is likely going to just get sucked in, combusted around, and then blown right back out without ever causing a problem. Something .2mm, though, might get stuck on the oil film and scrape along a little bit. So the question of the day becomes "How big is too big?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I did my own testing when I had my K&N on, my oil was getting so dirty after only 500 miles that it had to be changed. This was according to oil analysis. The analyst stated that while using the K&N, the motor had dirt like a 25 year old 100k mile plus engine and wear metals were trending up through the roof. After I put the paper filter back in, all the dirt and wear went away immediately. That was proof enough for me. As for particles being too small to harm an engine, I'd like to see proof of that. When you are under heavy load, the oil film is so small that even the smallest of particles can cause damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rice Eater Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 This is on oil filters from Moroso's web site. The URL is: http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=20002 Racing Oil Filters After many years of designing and testing racing oil systems and related components, we've collected a great deal of information to determine what's most important to oil filtration. Our conclusion was Total Filtration Time! Many filter manufacturers stress the importance of filtering some of the smallest particles known to man out of your engine's oil. You've probably seen or heard them talk about "micron ratings" of 10 or less when talking about a filter's efficiency. (One micron is one-millionth of a meter and a "micron rating" of 10 means that the filter will remove particles as small as 10 millionths of a meter.) Moroso engineers have determined, with the help of research performed by filtration technology experts, that particles smaller than 20 microns in diameter are not large enough to produce engine wear. Furthermore, Moroso engineers have also found that filters with extremely low micron ratings create an excessive pressure drop across the filter. They can be so restrictive that the filter by-pass valve can open. And with the by-pass valve open, NO FILTRATION occurs, and you have no way of knowing! To maximize filter performance, Moroso Oil Filters have a rating of 27 microns, which produces a maximum initial restriction of only 2.5 psi when tested to SAE j806! The result is less pressure drop, more flow, less oil by-pass and maximum filtration performance that's so important in severe racing conditions. This is on K&N air filters from their website. The URL is: http://www.knfilters.com/faq.htm#10 11. What is the micron rating and filtering efficiency of the K&N filter? Air filters are not rated by micron size on an absolute basis. (See technical service bulletin 89-5R from the Filter Manufacturer's Council) The proper rating system for air filters is a testing procedure developed to measure the efficiency of the filtration media at varying micron sizes. We routinely subject a sample of our air filters to this testing procedure conducted by independent laboratories. The primary purpose of this testing is to ensure that our air filter designs meet or exceed automotive industry standards. Until recently filtration tests were performed in accordance with the Society of Automotive Engineer's (SAE) J726 testing procedure, however, we now use the ISO 5011procedure which that superseded the SAE procedure. The content of the test dust used in accordance with the SAE testing procedure is as follows: Particle Size in Microns % by Volume (+/- 3%) <5.5 13 5.5 to 11 11 11 to 22 13 22 to 44 19 44 to 88 28 88 to 176 16 I work in a highly regulated industry, more tightly regulated than the air or oil filter business. And even within the parameters of a specified test you can create situations that skew the results in your favor. That being said..maybe these figures, the ones I posted and the original "independent" ones are all correct, partially correct, partially incorrect, or total crap. The bottom line is this..nobody at our level of the game(amatuer automotive enthusiest(sp)) should worry too much about something as small as 200 millionths of a meter. Now if you were driving the space shuttle at 18,000 miles an hour you might want to worry about 200 microns, just because there are no garages in outer space yet. Me, I change the oil pretty regular and I seem to have little problems with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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