Winter project; Tempzilla

[Mr3GTP]

Well, for whoever gives a fuck, here's what I'm thrashing on this winter. I was in the midst of rebuilding the engine in my s/c'd Tempo, and decided to upgrade to a larger blower. This is a mockup of my previous setup. 6.5 psi, dropped my et by 2.8 sec. It worked very well; aside from the occasional 'check engine' light (thanks EECIV), it was daily driveable, and a real ball to romp on.

 

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3109/picture042vz2.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9691/picture009yv5.jpg

 

Now, here's the new plan; it's gonna take some work, but after last year's results, I'm up for it! The front part of it is mounted, I'm laying out the rear support now. I'll have to build new intake & discharge ducts, move the rad to make some room, etc. I'm hoping to run 10 psi, but I'll have to see what I have when it's done, then adjust accordingly by swapping pulleys.

 

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4971/hscwm901nn3.jpg

 

Here's a shot of the header. The 2.5" exhaust is made, but I can't fab a downpipe until the engine is in the car.

 

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6986/hscwheader1bp2.jpg

 

Opinions? Tips? Waddaya think?

[Farkas]

Will the stock internals hold up to 10psi? I was actually wondering how your project was coming along, nice to see you're posting up some progress with plans.

[Mr3GTP]

As far as I know, they probably will. It stood up to a whole summer of outright abuse, on a high-mileage motor at 6.5 psi, and when I pulled it down, it looked pretty good.

Only damage was caused by my own stupidity; I jumped on it in cold weather without the boost retard dialed in, and broke the first ring land on 2 pistons. Between the loud exhaust & the blower whine, I didn't hear the detonation until it was too late. Yea, I was a dumbass, but I won't do THAT again lol.

I guess I'll find out in '07. My GTP has a hitch; I'm buying a towbar for the Tempo. It'll be driven everywhere it goes, but if I break something, I can drag it home without paying through the nose.

 

I'll attach the towbar brackets behind the bumper, so if I kill it, I can slide the bumper off, pull the bar out of the trunk, hook it up, & go.

 

To go higher boost-wise, I'll need forged pistons (none available, likely cu$tom-made), forged rods (hope I can find existing ones that'll work with a resize, otherwise cu$tom).

No forged crank exists, so I'll have to go with main studs & fab a girdle when I go for the 300 hp mark.

 

I already have head studs from ARP..no kit was available, but after I took some measurements, they found existing ones that fit perfectly. I hope they can hook me up when I need the mains.

[Mojoe]

Tis the season to break down motors. You have a unique project. Good luck with it.

[launchin1st]

thats some nice fab work.

 

but if ever get beat by a tempo, i may cry.

[Mr3GTP]

Thanks, guys!

 

 

EDIT; ...and Merry Christmas!

[Farkas]

The ARP studs will help out a lot, I would look into a metal head gasket and whatnot if you can find one. I don't know a damn thing about Tempo's but this thing is pretty unique.. :thumbup:

[Mr3GTP]

The ARP studs will help out a lot, I would look into a metal head gasket and whatnot if you can find one. I don't know a damn thing about Tempo's but this thing is pretty unique.. :thumbup:

Not much to know engine-wise; internally, the 2.3 HSC is basically an old inline "6" minus 2 cylinders. It was used only in the Tempo/Topaz, though a 2.5 liter version was used in the early Taurus/Sable.

Though often confused (even by Summit!) with the 2.3 OHC motor, it shares nothing but the displacement. Bore, stroke, everything is different.

 

One of the members at tempotopaz.com may have worked out some forged parts from other apps that might work. Boring the engine out may allow the use of 305 Chevy pistons, certain rods that may adapt, etc.

 

Don't know about a metal head gasket, I'll have to look that up. Supposedly, there's a company that will make them to fit anything, but the cost may be high. It will be needed when I start cranking up the pressure, though.

 

I'm doing this thing in 3 stages; stage 1 was the previous setup. Making everything fit & work together, just seeing how the engine would respond to low boost.

It responded quite well; according to an online HP/ET calclator, my stock wheel hp was 83. That's right in the ballpark for a stock sewing machine with 140k on the clock.

After boosting the same tired motor, whp was calculated at 133. Both were based on the same 2700# weight.

 

I know those 'calculators' are nothing but guesstimates, but still pretty encouraging.

 

It took the car from a stock 18.7 to 15.9, with shitty narrow tires and a stock fuel pump that was choking at the top end. Traction and better fuel delivery would have made a difference; trying to guess how much would be pointless, but I knew the car had more in it, even then.

 

Stage two; Fresh motor, bumping up the boost, header & custom exhaust, Walbro pump, etc. Target HP in the 200 range. I'll need to make a dogbone for the engine, and fill the mounts with urethane; otherwise, I'll trash them in a hurry. The mounts on these cars are craptastic.

 

Stage 3; Forged motor, boost in the mid/high teens, rockers & headwork, anything else that comes to mind. Target HP; 300.

 

Lofty goals, I know, and reality may force some adjustments, we'll have to see.

 

Any opinions on the future plans?

[Farkas]

As far as your rods and all that, have you looked into getting them shot-peened and cryo'd? That should sufficiently (possibly a temporary boost fix for stage two) improve the strength of the stock stuff if you can't find aftermarket ones right away.. and you could atleast bump up the boost a little more on a smaller budget. Cometic seems to make a wide variety of metal headgaskets for almost any application, try looking something up through them. Just some quick ideas coming off the top of my head..

[Mr3GTP]

Do my future plans seem unrealistic? Nothing is definite, and my output figures are probably a bit optimistic; fueled, perhaps, by the car's profound response to low boost. I'm bound to hit a wall somewhere; be it flow related, like an element of head or port design, or structural, as in reaching a point where the block or crank just won't take it anymore.

I hope to finish this stage of the build, get a good year or so of running out of it as a daily driver, and upon tearing it down, gain real-world info on the engine's weaknesses.

If it fails, I'll still learn a shitload, perhaps that will reduce the chance of failure when the boost (and the money invested) goes way up.

 

I could see a forged motor costing twice as much or more than stock; I priced custom-made pistons at roughly $100 each, and having rods made will bump the price up considerably. Then comes the machine work...

[Mr3GTP]

Here's a little update on the bracket I need to hang this monster. The 'ears' on the mounting plate towards the back of the motor used to mount the M62. I kept that part of the bracket intact, so that if this doesn't work for whatever reason, I can simply reinstall the M62 and roll.

I'm going to use the holes as attachment points for the rear half of the new bracket. The bracket will bolt together, with its rear half also attached to the block at 2 points. The supercharger will then bolt to it. The mounting ear near the oil filter adapter will be a bit close; I'll have to do some slick bending to make it clear, but I have the room to get it done.

 

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/205/blowerfrombacksidewp9.jpg

 

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4454/wiiiideloadhf8.jpg

 

Here's a size comparison between the M90 and the M62. Note that the M62 still has its intake plenum attached, making it look larger than it is. I'll have to make all new intake/discharge hardware, so I can keep the old stuff in case I need to use the old blower.

 

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5292/sizecomparison1oh6.jpg

[Miller]

Looks like fun dude

[Mr3GTP]

this man knows his tempos..

Thanks, but my wisdom springs from http://www.tempotopaz.com, an outstanding source of info.

 

 

I know this whole project sounds crazy, but I've always wanted to do something different. The feedback I got at the tracks was very encouraging; most of the racers & others at the track got a kick out of it!

[Mr3GTP]

Well, until I know the bigger one is going to work, I'll hang on to it. The M90 is made for much bigger engines, so it may be overkill. The reasons I want to try it are;

 

It should take (theoretically) less RPM to move a given amount of air, which means less heat buildup,

 

Turning slower = quieter, as the M62 was pretty loud,

 

Gives me some headroom for future boost increases, whereas the M62 wouldn't have gone much further, and;

 

Repair parts (drive couplings, bearings, seals, and different pulleys) are widely available for the M90. This Mercedes-app M62 has an odd input shaft/bearing arrangement, parts likely must come from Benz, such as shims, pulley bearing, and seals. And because of its odd bearing, the pulley that's on it is the smallest she'll take. The pulley rides on a sealed roller (or perhaps double-ball) bearing.

[Guest Removed]

on the old blower...is that a ac clutch, at the end of the blower pulley?

[BIGGU]

hey man i have a extra 6 rib pully from my supercharger that i didnt use you may be able to use it on yours.

[Mr3GTP]

on the old blower...is that a ac clutch, at the end of the blower pulley?

Used to be, the blower was electrically engaged in the C230. I really wanted to retain that feature, would've been sweet for a sleeper. Besides, the blower whine is very loud, even at idle.

But, the pulley was much too large; the car made only 1/2 pound with it. A bigger crank pulley would just drive everything faster. Besides, not much room for a bigger pulley with the engine sitting wrongways.

So, I had to cut it apart, tried progressively smaller ones, till I arrived at the current one. The magnet took up a lot of room, so it had to go, thus the drive clutch is welded solid.

 

That's an Alt pulley from an F150 on there now, hollowed out & welded to the carrier hub. That's after trying a ZZP pulley, having to lathe-bore the hub out, etc.

[Mr3GTP]

hey man i have a extra 6 rib pully from my supercharger that i didnt use you may be able to use it on yours.

Sounds tempting...what diameter?

 

I can get away with the 8-groove on the blower, just using the front 6 grooves.

But, this blower already has an 'upgraded' pulley on it, so I may need to go larger if it turns out to be spinning the thing too fast.

 

I can cure slippage with an extra idler between the blower & crank, to increase the amount of belt/pulley contact, but if the pulley is too small, I'll have to swap.

 

Unlike the press-on pulley (with a vent-bolt) on my GTP, this one appears to be secured with a nut, possibly keyed. If so, it may be a Magnuson shaft assembly. That would be sweet, because swaps could be done without a puller. I could maybe put a small hole in the inner fender (pending location) that would allow swaps "on the car", which would be a big help in getting the right amount of boost.

[BIGGU]

the pully i have is a 62.5 brand new and never used. i got it for my supercharger but i needed a 4 rib but i got a 6 rib and the company i got it from was undergoing a switch so i never got ahold of them to get it fixed.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/2zumeunos/Forsale/IMG_0291.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/2zumeunos/Forsale/IMG_0290.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/2zumeunos/Forsale/IMG_0289.jpg

$55 from them but i just want it outta my garage so $30 and its yours

[Mr3GTP]

Looks pretty, and I appreciate the offer, but the offset looks wrong for my app. I need one that's flat across the face, the one you have would (depending on which way I mounted it) force me to either move the blower toward the rear of the motor, or toward the front, neither of which I have room for.

What company supplied that? Iit looks well made; if they make replacements for the T-bird M90, it might be a good source when I start adjusting my boost level. Is it someone local?

[BIGGU]

its made by stage one tunning, it was called brain storm production but i think they really only make miata parts. you could try trackdogracing they may have a pully for your app. i too cant use it because of the offset i just wish it would work =( not local i forgot where they are out of but they ship very fast

[Mr3GTP]

Thanks again for the offer, and I'll check those places out.

 

I know there's a vendor on the net that specializes in SuperCoupe upgrades. Pulleys from them would be a direct swap. Can't remember the name, I'll try some Googling & see what comes up.

[Miller]

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