Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I'm looking into building a motor, but I'm not too happy that my 302 block can't handle much power at all. So therefore I'm thinking about other small blocks, ford and chevy. I've noticed parts and everything are much more abundant it seems for chevy's. So basically I need to know a few things... Bang for buck, which is cheaper? What small block chevy motors are there, and what are the capable of? Same for the ford, I've only considered the 302/351w, but have looked at stroker kits. *Two things to keep in mind, both will be carbed, and I'm not TOO concerned with driveability, etc, I mean its not going to be a daily, or anything close, but at the same time I don't want a headache. I'd like 400-500 whp NA, and possibly 600-700 with a blower or spray. But I don't just want an engine capable of that, I want it to be fairly safe with at least 550whp in mind. As well as offering advice on which way to go, can anyone recommend forums and parts sites to research the chevy stuff? I'm fairly confident on my sbf info so I'm exploring other possibilies. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 either will be able too. clubhotrod.com engine forum one time we tossed a pile of sbc parts together and went racing. true story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye1647545503 Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 500 hp is more than you think it is matt. Plus the 351 is good to 700 if you get bored later plus if you stay na it takes work to hit the 500 mark in a 302 based motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurkvinny Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 500 rwhp is more than you think it is matt. Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 work to hit the 500 mark in a 302 based motor my buddie bobby , his black falcon has a 347 and victor heads it made 567hp at the flywheel.(n/a at fast racing engines) and went 10.20 @ 135 on a 250 shot , and keeps cracking the cyl walls after 2 or 3 pass's. a b-50 this time round..i bet it dont crack now. around 12 k or so now a 600hp sbc is about the same price range realy about 8-12k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I'm not saying I want to stay NA, but if and when I want more power, I'd like to be able to get it out of my built motor. As far as I know, the 302 block can't handle 500whp, and I guess I'm not sure about the 351w's, but I thought I read somewhere they were similar. That's why I'm asking, I wasn't sure, nor do I know anything about chevy motors and there limits. I may never go for, 500 or 600 hp, but damnit if I'm going to full build an engine, I don't want to waste my time and money on something that will not even hold 500whp without worry. And I do agree, 500whp is probably more than I think it is, but I'm not ready to drop $5k or whatever and NOT have the availability to push that much power. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 my buddie bobby , his black falcon has a 347 and victor heads it made 567hp at the flywheel.(n/a at fast racing engines) and went 10.20 @ 135 on a 250 shot , and keeps cracking the cyl walls after 2 or 3 pass's. a b-50 this time round..i bet it dont crack now. around 12 k or so now a 600hp sbc is about the same price range realy about 8-12k Rob, do you know much about cheby's? What do you think of this motor? "For sale fresh built chevy 383 stroker, bored 40 over, pro speed poly .010 domed pistons, weight balance eagle 5.7 rods, scat stroker crank, stock chevy heads with 1.94 intake valves, and 1.6 exhaust valves, double roller timing chain, edelbrock performer rpm intake, holley 650 carb, crane pushrods, lunati voodoo cam 489 intake lift 504 exhaust lift, 268 intake duration, 276 exhaust duration, the only thing that is missing is the rocker arms. like i said this is a fresh built motor, 0 miles. asking $1200.00 obo." What would that with a good set of heads make power wise? Or even just a bolt on 350, heads, cam, roller shit, etc etc. Do they flow better than my 302? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Oh and it'll probably just get hit with a healthy dose of spray if I feel the need, but again, I want to build it for that extra hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 bang for the buck would be SBC since its been the same design from 57-92 other than the rear main being changed from a 2-piece to a one piece seal. there are more parts out there cheeper. 2 bolt main blocks are stronger than 4 bolt if you use splied (sp?) main caps and can handle 700-800 horse i've seen 900 but it didn't live as long as the lower horse does. engine sizes most common are 283, 327, 350, 355, 383, 377 and 400. try to stay away from 400's for high horse engines unless its an aftermarket block they had a problem with cracking. you don't want an engine thats bored 40 over if you plan on FI. i had a 355 that was making 506 horse on the engine dyno that i had less than 5k in from a 10:1 engine on 94 and my cam was only .480/.480 with 292/292 duration, it was pretty smooth on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Thanks AJ, what do you think that motor I listed above would put down as is? And what about with a good set of heads? I guess I was only saying spray if I couldn't get what I wanted NA, like 450+whp, or if it was just cheaper yet the block could handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOZZER Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 As far as I know, the 302 block can't handle 500whp. I got something that proves that theory wrong. I have been running the same stock short block for the past six years and no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 find out the compression ratio. ditch those heads and get a good set of aluminum ones like dart pro 1 if you want to make serious power. but there are alot of other good heads too. my car had Pro Top Line which is out of busness. single plane intake and a 750 carb it should lay down some good power numbers and gobs of torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I got something that proves that theory wrong. I have been running the same stock short block for the past six years and no problems. I remembered talking with you about yours, but I've already got one step weaker with a bottom end out of a 95 gt, so its not forged anything. But what's it put down OFF the bottle? Honestly I like spray and all, but I'd much rather have 50 or 100 less rwhp NA and be competitive, than having to NEED a 175 shot to put down 500whp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 find out the compression ratio. ditch those heads and get a good set of aluminum ones like dart pro 1 if you want to make serious power. but there are alot of other good heads too. my car had Pro Top Line which is out of busness. single plane intake and a 750 carb it should lay down some good power numbers and gobs of torque. AJ, here's what I found out... here are the cam specs Advertised Duration : 262°/268° Duration @ .050 IN/EX : 219°/227° Gross Valve lift IN/EX .468''/.489'' LSA and ICL 112/108 RPM Range: 1400-5800 it has 11:1 compression, cast crank, Hypereutectic pistons, and cast rods That help any... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lustalbert Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 No love for the oldsmobiles.... DX 350 > * The 350 diesel block with a 425 crank and the stock bore size block (4.057") will yield a bulletproof 411 CID gasoline small block. The 350 diesel block can be safely overbored .125" with sonic testing, to make a 437 CID small block. The amount of nickel in the block makes them damn near indestructable, and if you want to go for it all you can get aftermarket 4 bolt caps that will handle damn near anything you can throw at it other than filling the cylinders with TNT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 i'd stay away from high compression and hypereutectic pistons but thats just me. i assume the compression ratio is with 64cc heads, get maybe a 72cc head to drop it down a little and call it a day. have you thought about putting an LS1/T56 in there? i've seen engine, trans, harness and PCM go for 4k before, head/swap and have close to 500 horse power out of an aluminum block so you car would be even lighter and just hit the key and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I have thought about it, but I really wanted to keep it carb'd for simplicity and the classic look and wasn't sure if I wanted to go through that with an LS1. It's definitely and option though. Hmm, what to do, what to do. Aren't LS1's expensive to mod compared to older small blocks that I'm considering? I mean I guess I could just leave the engine stock and spray it if needed to attain my hp goals, but I heard that the older SBC's flowed better or reacted better to mods, but maybe that was a specific block or something, I can't remember. Matt/Tinman uses a sbc, maybe I'll pick him about his setup, because I know he has good power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Sign Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Rob, do you know much about cheby's? What do you think of this motor? "For sale fresh built chevy 383 stroker, bored 40 over, pro speed poly .010 domed pistons, weight balance eagle 5.7 rods, scat stroker crank, stock chevy heads with 1.94 intake valves, and 1.6 exhaust valves, double roller timing chain, edelbrock performer rpm intake, holley 650 carb, crane pushrods, lunati voodoo cam 489 intake lift 504 exhaust lift, 268 intake duration, 276 exhaust duration, the only thing that is missing is the rocker arms. like i said this is a fresh built motor, 0 miles. asking $1200.00 obo." What would that with a good set of heads make power wise? Or even just a bolt on 350, heads, cam, roller shit, etc etc. Do they flow better than my 302? That was the cast bottom end one for sale here right? Just bite the bullet, Go all aluminum, block, heads and do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Probably willl, have you guys found if the "crate, ready to run" motors are a good deal compared to buying a block, heads, etc, and assembling it myself? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Rob, do you know much about cheby's? Yes...a great deal i was doing those before i became a ford man. wonder why i coverted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Yes...a great deal i was doing those before i became a ford man. wonder why i coverted well you've got a bbf, no way I'm considering that, but all things considered, cost per hp, chebys seem cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOZZER Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Is it a standard bore? I do have a set of 12.5:1 forged pistons in my garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total Sign Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Probably willl, have you guys found if the "crate, ready to run" motors are a good deal compared to buying a block, heads, etc, and assembling it myself? Just curious. Well, if you are going to assemble it yourself, alone, for the first time reading a bunch of different information off of the internet, yes you are a lot better off with a crate motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 You could consider a forged 4.6l it would probably be a good bit cheaper. I'm not sure if they have a carb setup for the '03 style heads, but I can assure you they will handle 550rwhp. 550 NA would most likely be impossible, but they handle spray and boost nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 haha Tinman has a SBC.2 set up.....just heads and intake would cost more than buying an LS1/T56 set up. you can also get a carb intake for an LS1. it may have a classic look but the trend now is fuel injection and LS swaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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