Supplicium Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 I know we'ver argued over and over again about the war and politics and what not. Ive been watching alot of CNN and MSNBC recently and it is interesting when they talk about the war and homeland security. While this past week after hearing about these new London plots and whatnot got me thinking so heres my thoughts and some questions for you. First off, I like our President, I dont like that we are in war but I believe we have to be. With that said, (This is mainly for people that dont agreed with me) What if a plot with tons of evidence including bombs, explosives etc etc was found in say Boston, NYC and LA. Would that be enough justification for you to be behind the President in his views on the War on Terror and the need to spends billions on homeland security? If that isnt enough for you, would another 9/11 like attack be enough? I am just trying to figure out what the line is for certain people for my own curosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mseebs Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 I hate arguing this shit. So I'll make my response short and sweet. I think most people are upset with Iraq cause the president lied on his initial reason to go into Iraq. That their were weapons of mass destruction there. None have been found, or atleast publicized. The next reason is that the primairy insurgants we are fighting in Iraq are just pissed off Iraqi citizens who want us out of Iraq. We are not exactly fighting terrorists there. The terrorists responible for 9/11, the Britian train station bombing, and sadly maybe other future attacks are scattered throughout the middle east. While I don't think their are no Alkita in Iraq, I believe the majority have probably fled Iraq since the huge US military presence. Since most of these terrorists seem to be, for lack of better terms, pussies. I agreed with the initial reason to go in, which was to take down Sadaam and end the dictatorship of Iraq. But now that is all done and past. Sadaam is dead and Iraq is a "democracy". We have done what we said we were gonna do. Now we should be out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethepirate Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 I love arguing about politics. For a little bit of background, I'm an International Relations major... Grew up in Europe, and my parents are extremely liberal... One of the main arguments against the president/America is that we are disliked because of this superiority "complex" in which we feel like we have to be the world superpower. So if there were to be another large attack, while the president might get more support, i think that even more people would just come out and criticize him for whatever he did to make someone want to attack us. In the end, we cant win. the power dynamics of the international system require there to be one superpower, and if the US wasnt it, it would be some other country such as china... and boy would that be interesting! so while we are criticized for thinking that the whole world revolves around us, when it comes down to it.... this is the truth. if the US decided to withdraw our military from foreign countries, all hell would break loose and we would be criticized even more. I've told my parents that if there is another 9/11 type attack, that i'm enlisting... so while i support the president currently, it would take something extreme to get me to drop out of college to go and PHYSICALLY support him. (note, i think bush is really stupid, and the wrong man for the job. BUT, he is our president, and it is our obligation to support him unless there is something we can do to fix it. The democrats are so quick to criticize, but never offer any feasible solution!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 (note, i think bush is really stupid, and the wrong man for the job. BUT, he is our president, and it is our obligation to support him unless there is something we can do to fix it. The democrats are so quick to criticize, but never offer any feasible solution!) And the sweet democratic congress has a lower approval rating than Bush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 And the sweet democratic congress has a lower approval rating than Bush Wrong. Just plain wrong. 71% of people are dissatisfied with the job congress is doing, 24% approve, 5% have no opinion. That is probably the statistic you're thinking of. The part that makes you wrong as that you SPECIFICALLY said "Democratic Congress". The most recent Gallup polls show that 41% of people approve of the job the Democrats in Congress are doing, while only 33% of people approve of the job Republicans in Congress are doing, which pretty much coincides with Bush's approval rating. source: http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=1600 Now that I've corrected the statistical inaccuracies, here's some more statistics for you. Of 5 recent presidents (Eisenhower, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, all of whom were re-elected to second terms) only Nixon's approval rating was worse at the end of his term than Bush's currently is. As of Feb 2007, only 21% of people believe leaders of other countries have respect for Bush, where as 73% believe they don't have much respect for him at all. That compared to two years before in Feb 2005 when 38% of people thought he was respected. More people believe that Democrats would do a better job being in control of Congress than Republicans would should they get control (35% vs 25%, 34% believe it'd be the same either way). So now that the statistics are up, I'll state my flat-out opinion. I think Bush is so full of shit it's starting to permeate his brain, which is why he issued a commutation for Scooter Libby today (that means his conviction remains on his record and he must still pay the quarter-million in fines, but he serves no jail time). That is complete bullshit. Libby was sentenced to two and a half years, which is NOTHING compared to the white collar crimes sentences in the private sector. Still, what Bush is doing is wonderful in a way because he's just hammering nail after nail into the coffin that buries the ridiculous Republican agenda for the next several elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Wrong. Just plain wrong. 71% of people are dissatisfied with the job congress is doing, 24% approve, 5% have no opinion. That is probably the statistic you're thinking of. The part that makes you wrong as that you SPECIFICALLY said "Democratic Congress". The most recent Gallup polls show that 41% of people approve of the job the Democrats in Congress are doing, while only 33% of people approve of the job Republicans in Congress are doing, which pretty much coincides with Bush's approval rating. source: http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=1600 Now that I've corrected the statistical inaccuracies, here's some more statistics for you. Of 5 recent presidents (Eisenhower, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, all of whom were re-elected to second terms) only Nixon's approval rating was worse at the end of his term than Bush's currently is. As of Feb 2007, only 21% of people believe leaders of other countries have respect for Bush, where as 73% believe they don't have much respect for him at all. That compared to two years before in Feb 2005 when 38% of people thought he was respected. More people believe that Democrats would do a better job being in control of Congress than Republicans would should they get control (35% vs 25%, 34% believe it'd be the same either way). So now that the statistics are up, I'll state my flat-out opinion. I think Bush is so full of shit it's starting to permeate his brain, which is why he issued a commutation for Scooter Libby today (that means his conviction remains on his record and he must still pay the quarter-million in fines, but he serves no jail time). That is complete bullshit. Libby was sentenced to two and a half years, which is NOTHING compared to the white collar crimes sentences in the private sector. Still, what Bush is doing is wonderful in a way because he's just hammering nail after nail into the coffin that buries the ridiculous Republican agenda for the next several elections. lol, it doesnt matter, democrats are in power in congress, that makes it a democratic congress, therefore the democratic congress has a lower approval rating than the president... I guess I will spell out my point for you, people thought that the country was going to change so much with a democratic congress, and it hasn't, it has gotten "worse", so I laugh in their faces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I think we have covered this subject in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Quik7 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 1. Bush is a moron, plain and simple, he has the IQ of steamed broccoli...unfortuntely at the time our choices were very limited. 2. Not many people disagree with his views on terrorism, or what he calls the 'War on Terror'...they disagree with the lack of progress he seems to be making, focusing everything on Iraq as if to distract us from the fact that Al Queda was to blame. 3. We don't need to be in Iraq, period. We've started something that will probably never end, we spread ourselves all over the world when our own country is a mess. If he wants to spend billions on Homeland let him have it, but he should remember that not only terrorist are killing this country, but things like lack of education and healthcare, and the insurgance of illegals can do it just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 lol, it doesnt matter, democrats are in power in congress, that makes it a democratic congress, therefore the democratic congress has a lower approval rating than the president... I guess I will spell out my point for you, people thought that the country was going to change so much with a democratic congress, and it hasn't, it has gotten "worse", so I laugh in their faces Point taken, but it doesn't change the fact that fewer people would like to see Republicans try...we've already experienced that for several years and it blew asschurros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinner Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 And the sweet democratic congress has a lower approval rating than Bush I'm sure now that he pardoned libby that will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Bush is a ricer. He's big he's flashy.. Shock and Aw .............. If your so high and mighty and support a complete fuck up of a president then you my friend are in the lower precent of our population. We had SO MANY PEOPLE backing bush to get in. Look what he has left. Uber consertive christians don't even support him like they used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supplicium Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I didnt really want to discuss rep vs dem or bush. cause no matter who the president is there will always be haters and followers. personally I feel more safe in terms of homeland security atm. if all our troops were back home im not sure If i would feel as "safe". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 HOW THE HELL WOULD US NOT IN IRAQ HELP. YOU LIKE COMPUTERS YOU EVEN TALK ABOUT DLING YET YOU SUPPORT OUR CURRENT POS GOVERMENT? Would you feel more safe if every phone call was monitored I mean no one could talk about doing bad things then. What about if everyplace you went had cameras? No one could do anything bad then Where does the line get drawn. What about if your last name sounded forigen you where put on a no fly list I can go on and on. The war is pointless we are in a war against terror how can you have a war against a fucking action. We've said time and time again there was no link between sadam and osama. Yet we still wasted lives and resources.I support our troops for doing there job. It just a fucking shame there boss is a complete fuckup. The terrorist organstions are gaining more support by out stupidity then they could have drummed up alone. IMHO the line should have been drawn a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supplicium Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 HOW THE HELL WOULD US NOT IN IRAQ HELP. YOU LIKE COMPUTERS YOU EVEN TALK ABOUT DLING YET YOU SUPPORT OUR CURRENT POS GOVERMENT? Would you feel more safe if every phone call was monitored I mean no one could talk about doing bad things then. What about if everyplace you went had cameras? No one could do anything bad then Where does the line get drawn. What about if your last name sounded forigen you where put on a no fly list I can go on and on. The war is pointless we are in a war against terror how can you have a war against a fucking action. We've said time and time again there was no link between sadam and osama. Yet we still wasted lives and resources.I support our troops for doing there job. It just a fucking shame there boss is a complete fuckup. The terrorist organstions are gaining more support by out stupidity then they could have drummed up alone. IMHO the line should have been drawn a while back. I completely agree, there has to be a line and we are getting to that point. But you cannot say we've wasted lives. Or government has its problems just like any other country's. But it could sure as hell be worse. Again, I am not completly one sided. I agree with somethings and there are somethings I dont agree with. I believe we should have some presence in places, like someone posted earlier its either us be there or someone else would be there (like china). Again, this is way the USA is great I have my opinion and others have there own. We cant go back and change what has already happened. Bush may have lied, we probably could have avoided a war but at the time the decision was made by a very large group of people. These threats of terror are real and we have to deal with them.. 3 hour security waits at the airport are part of live now. Im willing to deal with it, what is your plan to deal with it? Wait for another attack then think about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I hate arguing this shit. So I'll make my response short and sweet. I think most people are upset with Iraq cause the president lied on his initial reason to go into Iraq. That their were weapons of mass destruction there. None have been found, or atleast publicized. The next reason is that the primairy insurgants we are fighting in Iraq are just pissed off Iraqi citizens who want us out of Iraq. We are not exactly fighting terrorists there. The terrorists responible for 9/11, the Britian train station bombing, and sadly maybe other future attacks are scattered throughout the middle east. While I don't think their are no Alkita in Iraq, I believe the majority have probably fled Iraq since the huge US military presence. Since most of these terrorists seem to be, for lack of better terms, pussies. I agreed with the initial reason to go in, which was to take down Sadaam and end the dictatorship of Iraq. But now that is all done and past. Sadaam is dead and Iraq is a "democracy". We have done what we said we were gonna do. Now we should be out. There was too much wrong with this for me to even make it through. I am so ashamed of the lack of intelligence of my "peers". I've jsut started, and I'm already done with this thread. I'm sure Dr. Rick will come in sooner or later and say much of what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Democrats hate me because I work hard and I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Democrats hate me because I work hard and I'm happy. Me to. I mean hate you that is. wait no work hard Ahh why can't it be both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Solution: Kill 'em all, let God sort em out. Ok. Now bush. No documented IQ, but he's a terrible orator to boot, I previously stated it. It makes for good humor, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Democrats hate me because I work hard and I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'm sure Dr. Rick will come in sooner or later and say much of what I think. I wont do it this time. The last 300+ post e battles too up too much of my time. I have to concentrate on work so I can pick up the slack of the lazy Dems in our country. Somebody has to pay for the food stamps and welfare checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Okay so we know you guys hate bush and republicans, but few of you have answered and question in the original post. What if a plot with tons of evidence including bombs, explosives etc etc was found in say Boston, NYC and LA. Would that be enough justification for you to be behind the President in his views on the War on Terror and the need to spends billions on homeland security? If that isnt enough for you, would another 9/11 like attack be enough? I am just trying to figure out what the line is for certain people for my own curosity. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Okay so we know you guys hate bush and republicans, but few of you have answered and question in the original post. What if a plot with tons of evidence including bombs, explosives etc etc was found in say Boston, NYC and LA. Would that be enough justification for you to be behind the President in his views on the War on Terror and the need to spends billions on homeland security? If that isnt enough for you, would another 9/11 like attack be enough? I am just trying to figure out what the line is for certain people for my own curosity. Evan A democrat would simply blame Bush for the increase in terrorism. Yet, when security measures would be enforced, they'd bitch about their rights as citizens. In essence, being a liberal is a lose/lose situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Homeland security http://www.tucsonshooting.com/image/system/norm.php?8A71B-00-3-27-07-073.jpg More trained citizens and average people with firearms, and training on anti-terrorism. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 The next reason is that the primairy insurgants we are fighting in Iraq are just pissed off Iraqi citizens who want us out of Iraq. We are not exactly fighting terrorists there. The terrorists responible for 9/11, the Britian train station bombing, and sadly maybe other future attacks are scattered throughout the middle east. While I don't think their are no Alkita in Iraq, I believe the majority have probably fled Iraq since the huge US military presence. Since most of these terrorists seem to be, for lack of better terms, pussies. . #1. It's Al Qaeda. #2. No it's not just pissed off farmers that are insurgents. THERE ARE FOREIGN MEMBERS OF AL QAEDA IN IRAQ. I know, I've seen them both dead and living. No, I will not share the pictures, so trust me on this one. #3. Yes they are pussies I agree 100% #4. Again, opinions of the average joe civilian is cool and all, but in all actuality don't mean a lot, since you are getting 65% of reality. Opinions of those that have been there, mean a little bit more. And by being there I don't mean FOBits that sit in the wire 24/7. Combat arms :woowoo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Don't worry. Next President http://delivery.viewimages.com/xv/73985916.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1932BBB80AB57C97602E75CDBBFA58F93FF4854FFF91D748C6E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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