Fox Body Suspension Overhaul - Autox guys?

[hpfiend]

Hey all,

 

What do you think of this recipe? The car is a daily driver that I want to corner better than my wife's Acura RSX-S or even her previous 95 240 SX

 

I am seriously on the fence of sinking more money in this car or letting it go and getting an 02-04 z06 but here is what I plan..... I figure if I can improve handling and hold off 6 months minimum I will be money ahead as compared to 600 a month for a z06.

 

Maybe run with a base vette or a 350 Z???

 

Tokico HP Blue Shocks and Struts

H&R Sport Springs

Max Motorsports Front Spring Isolators

Max Motorsports Rear Spring Isolators

Max Motorsports Caster Camber Plates

Max Motorsports Strut Tower Brace

Ford Racing Front Control Arms

Urethane Swaybar Endlinks

Urethane Swaybar Bushings

Ford HD Upper Rear Control Arms

Pro3i Lower Control Arms

FRPP Axle Install Kit

Max Motorsports Bushing Install tool

Max Motorsports Aluminum Steering Rack Bushings

[Dr. Apex]

Unfortunately I can't help much with a Mustang as I don't much about them but 1 thing you didn't mention that I hear a lot is a "K member"??

 

The car can be made to handle and if you really want to see a prepped mustang come to our next event in October, the owner will gladly give you a ride and probably be able to give you some advice on setup.

Here's the car I'm referring to: http://richard.safier.com/OVR/bills-090207/target90.html

[NTHER91]

MM is awsome when it comes to there suspension stuff for fox body's hopefully jason (twisted focus) will respond i have koni reds on mine and if i had sway bars i think it would handle like a dream i know koni yellows are awsome i think your on the right track

[Miller]

Fox's handle so well with the suspension work done, I don't think people realize. Your on the right track, I have just about all of that done to my Fox; different brands, but same stuff.

 

Good luck, unfortunately, I don't know much about MM!

[twistedfocus1647545489]

Yeah, I'd definitely recommend the MM stuff.

 

Seems like a good list of parts, but here's a couple of suggestions.

 

1. Shocks are super important. I'd probably spend a bit more and go with Koni Sports (Yellows). They do a huge amount of R&D and I have seen very few companies with direct-fit shocks outperform them. They'll likely handle and ride better than the Tokicos. Tokicos are good, and can really help the handling, but their valving tends to be a little harsh and that can upset the chassis at the limit and make for poor ride quality as well.

 

2. The MM Plates are some of the best I have seen. Be sure and have the alignment shop stick to the settings MM suggests in their instructions, as some places whine about them being out of O.E. spec. There's little to be gained if they won't set the alignment aggressively enough to take advantage of your newfound grip. There are some guys on here that I'm sure can help you out. As you probably already know, the more neg. camber the better in a turn, but anything over about 1 to 1.5 degrees of neg. camber can really wear tires fast. Usually for a street car a good compromise is to use alot of Caster to compensate. With more caster you have the benefit of more "camber gain" as you turn the steering wheel because it forces the wheel to kind of lay over as you turn(visualize long front forks on a chopper as opposed to a sport bike... different animal completely, but a good visual). On my last Mustang I ran 1 degree neg. camber and about 4.5 degrees caster. This was on a newer car, so you may not be able to get quite that much, but I'd max it out. I doubt you'd see any ill effects from running it that far, but you have to watch for bumpsteer, so that's something to consider. I think MM has something in their install instructions explaining how to tell whether or not you'll need a bumpsteer kit - you very likely will.

 

3. Rear control arms - I am not familiar with the Pro3i, but if they're similar to the MM ones in respect to having a rod end or "johnny-joint" on one end, they'll likely do well. The FRPP uppers are actually a good choice to pair with this type of arm. Lots of ORR guys use this combo.

 

4. Sway bars - didn't see them listed. Probably a good idea. Front and rear. Adjustable is nice to tune with but, like shock settings, you can spend alot of time tuning... and the more adjustable stuff you have, the more there is to constantly tune. Also, unless you'll be running a whole lot of tire, I wouldn't jump right to the largest ones out there.

 

5. Someone mentioned K-members. There are few out there that will take alot of abuse and will actually make much improvement with handling. Griggs makes a really nice one, but these things have to be very precisely aligned or it's a waste of money. Another upside is that you can often get more caster because of the different geometry induced by the relocation of the control arm pivot... there again though, for a street car I doubt all the cost and work involved will be worth it. Although, certainly for a dedicated road-racer it's a worthwhile mod.

 

6. Tires - not on the list but very important also. Something with a moderately stiff sidewall and sticky. The wider the better, but much beyond 275 width or so you start having clearance issues.

[88lx5oh]

what about the Matrix brace that kenny brown makes, that will stiffen the car up alot as well.

dont know if they make them for the fox body but the one i saw on a 01 cobra was just insane, you couldnt jack just one side of the car up, if you went to jack up the car on the right front corner, the whole front end came right up with it. pretty insane.

[NTHER91]

cage will do the same along with subframe connectors

[AI Coupe]

I have the full Griggs set up (MM C/C cause they ARE the best) on my American Iron Fox body. I know WAY in advance if I'm in over my head and about to break loose on track.

 

I'm in Pickerington and you're welcome to get under the car if you need to see this set up.

 

Unreal difference from stock!!!

 

Let me know, Ron

[Dr. Apex]

When autocrossing keep this in mind, aside from driver the things that will help you the most on the track is #1: Tires #2: Shocks #3: Alignment Though the order is argueable it's some of the most important things you can do. There's a million ways to do things and that can be half the fun.

[Dave1647545494]

you can swap an 03-04 cobra irs right into a fox

[Farley]

Unfortunately I can't help much with a Mustang as I don't much about them but 1 thing you didn't mention that I hear a lot is a "K member"??

 

The car can be made to handle and if you really want to see a prepped mustang come to our next event in October, the owner will gladly give you a ride and probably be able to give you some advice on setup.

Here's the car I'm referring to: http://richard.safier.com/OVR/bills-090207/target90.html

 

 

that fox body is bad ass.

 

mad props for wanting to autocross a foxbody. itd be nice to see more of those then a pack of miatas running around.

[Flyin Miata]

that fox body is bad ass.

 

mad props for wanting to autocross a foxbody. itd be nice to see more of those then a pack of miatas running around.

 

So what are you saying Nick??

[Farley]

im saying it gets old seeing old guys rocking a miata...and it coming off like the skittle pack from the west side.. there EVERYWHERE!!!

 

what are you trying to start.. brian?

[Dr. Apex]

you can swap an 03-04 cobra irs right into a fox

 

At least from what I see a normal live axle or whatever they use would be better, couldn't begin to tell you why but I don't see any cobras doing it and they put them down in the same class as all the other mustangs.

[hpfiend]

Thanks for all of the replies guys!

 

mr. Autox,

I wanted to go to the event on the 2nd of September but I could not figure out what time it started from the ovr website and wasn't going ot be back from cambridge ohio until ~10AM. What time is the october event?

 

Thanks for the suggestions- Max Motorsports also makes a K-member brace which I will probably get down the road. That fox looks pretty sweet I will def. want to see it.... obviously he doesnt daily drive that one....

 

AI coupe- I have looked at the full griggs setup or the maximum motorsports max grip package but am afraid they have too much NVH for a 99% street driven car... do you drive yours daily? Thanks for the offer to check it out- I very well may take you up on that!

 

Miller- what brands did you go with? Esp. shocks?

 

88lx5oh - I already have max motorsports sfc's- thanks!

 

nther91- what color is your car? what do you have other than reds? How does it drive on the street?

 

twistedfocus - on the shocks yeah I am kind of skimping on them, I have heard the yellows dont adjust as soft as they should for daily driving? I have also kicked around bilsteins... which I probably should go with . The koni reds are stiffer than yellows correct? I have heard that the griggs/max motorsports/other aftermarket tubular k-members are offset and mess with tire clearance/ball joint/rotor clearance and you kind of need different spindles and 5 lug to make it work?

pro3i control arms are identical to max motorsports- two designers came up with them and then parted ways.. pro3i is cheaper.

 

My fox already has factory front and rear sway bars... that is a good suggestion though and I will def look into larger ones once I get some decent shocks and springs under it.... I am definitely planning wider tires once mine are burned up... I am thinking of 275s all around with mavromont 17" pony rims that are 9" wide but look 100% stock. I have 245/50 KDWS now which is the widest I can go on the stock 7" rims.

 

Thanks all!

[twistedfocus1647545489]

twistedfocus - on the shocks yeah I am kind of skimping on them, I have heard the yellows dont adjust as soft as they should for daily driving? I have also kicked around bilsteins... which I probably should go with . The koni reds are stiffer than yellows correct?

 

My fox already has factory front and rear sway bars... that is a good suggestion though and I will def look into larger ones once I get some decent shocks and springs under it

 

As long as they are damped properly for your springs the yellows should be fine. I had Tokicos on my last car for a while. When I replaced them with Koni Yellows it not only handled a bit better, but rode nicer as well. It was definately tighter than stock feel, but not at all what I would call harsh. My car had IRS swapped in, so it rode pretty well actually for being as stiff as it was, but even with the live axle I don't think it would have been too bad.

 

Yellows tend to be a bit stiffer compression and have a much higher rebound adjustment than Reds (aka. "Specials"). Reds are a good stock replacement upgrade (like alot of people doing KYBs, but much better quality) but not quite on par with the Yellows as far as damping. With a fairly stiff aftermarket spring, I think you'd find the yellows to be a good match, just don't be tempted to wind the rebound all the way stiff. It's best to start with them as they come and tune from there. Bilsteins are one of my favorite non-adjustables, so I can't say they'd be a bad choice, but I do think the yellows would still be worth the money outlay on a setup like this.

 

Sway bars - With the better springs you will bring your body roll down quite a bit, but larger diameter swaybars would definately be better suited to something like this. The stock ones are pretty undersized for any serious handling application. Suspension Techniques makes a pretty good front/rear set for about $250 (yes, Two-Fiddy). That's pretty good bang for the buck. I'd probably at least do the front, but a matched set is prefferential for most setups.

[hpfiend]

twisted- thanks for the quick reply!

 

What rate springs did you have or do you reccommend?

 

Good call on the sway bars- I had no idea they were that cheap!

[twistedfocus1647545489]

By the end I had a pretty mixed bag front to rear b/c of the IRS swap, but when it was live axle, I was running the factory bullit springs without isolators (a little more drop). The springs were 600in/lb front and 250in/lb rear. They're nearly identical to the FRPP "C" springs. I liked them and know alot of peole have good luck with the C's... and the best part is they're extremely cheap. That's actually what I'd recommend, They're hard to beat for the money. Alot of people do progressive rate srpings becasue they "ride better", which is true to some extent but it's not nearly as radical a difference as most people think. Usually when people run springs like the Eibachs, they pair them with stock or stock-ish shocks so being a little squishy under low compression masks the crappiness of the shocks with the crappiness of the spring. I'd stick to a specific rate. Also, it's hard to tune a shock to a progressive spring, becasue they change rates on you in a non-linear fashion (unlike the shock) as they compress - so you have to compromise or over damp the soft travel of the spring to get it to damp the heavier part correctly.

 

That's the beauty of the Mustang, expecially the fox... there's so much on the market for them that if you shop smart you can be right up there with everyone and spend 1/4 the $$$.

[hpfiend]

I think I have "FRPP C"s now with worn out KYBs and the ride/handling is unbearable to say the least. The reason I say I think is that the previous owner told me that he had installed lowering springs and the springs have no tags on them- the rears had a set of Ford numbers but the dealer didn't know what they were as it was an engineering number instead of a part number.

[twistedfocus1647545489]

I think I have "FRPP C"s now with worn out KYBs and the ride/handling is unbearable to say the least. The reason I say I think is that the previous owner told me that he had installed lowering springs and the springs have no tags on them- the rears had a set of Ford numbers but the dealer didn't know what they were as it was an engineering number instead of a part number.

Could be, but beware as they have a "B" spring also that's not nearly as stiff in the front (same rear rate). It's probably going to be hard to say without doing some in-depth comparison, because I don't think either one of them have a proper part number.

 

Eric (Nther91) has C fronts on his car. Maybe you could compare them. He's also got some Koni reds on the front, but half-way through the build he went more drag-oriented and the car has no swaybars at all and not so agressive alignment, so it would be a poor comparison to what you're looking to do at this stage.

[NTHER91]

yea what he said

 

and if i had a sway bar (even a stock one) it would handle pretty good i love the reds and might be looking to change them in the future (coil overs) so who knows

 

i would kepe the c springs though i love mine

[Dr. Apex]

You will have to show up by 8-8:30am at the latest if you register online, no later than 7:30am if you walk up. We have to start this early anymore because there are so many people doing it and they try to accomodate everyone with as many laps as possible.

 

With the sway bars, if their affordable enough get adjustable ones. That way when your mostly driving around town soften them up, when you autox stiffen them up and if you mkae the step up to slicks eventually even firmer.