35RFTW Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I totally beg to differ...Hinds/ASK will stay in business simply cause they will sell bikes far lower than Pony will. I guarantee Pony, as MOC did, will hit people with full retail prices or -$100-$300 off MSRP...Pfffft! Right to ASK or Hinds..Cost + $$$$.I would be pretty confident that Iron Pony is well aware of what it is going to take to make it happen. You don't become a big 4 dealer without some planing and insight from people who have been there and done it before. I am sure their every step is pretty much planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfman Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I totally beg to differ...Hinds/ASK will stay in business simply cause they will sell bikes far lower than Pony will. I guarantee Pony, as MOC did, will hit people with full retail prices or -$100-$300 off MSRP...Pfffft! Right to ASK or Hinds..Cost + $$$$.No way will Hinds compete with Iron Pony. Pony will sell for less than the other just because they know they can make up some of that cost selling gear and accessories to the buyer. Plus, if they treat their customers right with good prices and service they will be locked in for life buying both bikes AND gear from the Pony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 No way will Hinds compete with Iron Pony.You're kidding I hope. Pony is the most expensive on most things they sell. Most people simply go there to try on what they want..verify the size needed then go home and order online....cheaper w/shipping. You think it's going to be any different with bikes...I think not...watch and see. As soon as they are open for bike sales...I will take a day of the dealer running for an 09 R6. Who will be cheaper of all dealers in Cols? Place bets now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I dont mind payng a little extra for that convenience Putty. Sorry, but im a big fan O' the pony. yee haw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfman Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I dont mind payng a little extra for that convenience Putty. Sorry, but im a big fan O' the pony. yee haw...Agreed, I think most people realize Iron Pony isn't the rock bottom cheapest place to shop, but I think their prices are very competitive considering they have a large showroom they have to pay for. Hinds can't compete with them selling gear so why would I think they can compete selling bikes? I'm sticking by my bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) I dont mind payng a little extra for that convenience Putty. I respect that.Agreed, I think most people realize Iron Pony isn't the rock bottom cheapest place to shop, but I think their prices are very competitive considering they have a large showroom they have to pay for. Hinds can't compete with them selling gear so why would I think they can compete selling bikes? Right so why not make the consumer help as much as possible...Hinds can't compete with them selling gear so why would I think they can compete selling bikes? I think you answered your own question. I underlined it for ya. Edited December 13, 2008 by Putty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Good point Putty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfman Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Right so why not make the consumer help as much as possible...It doesn't seem like they are having any problems paying the rent selling just gear and accessories so I doin't see why they would need to make top dollar on every bike they sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I doin't see why they would need to make top dollar on every bike they sell.MOC did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluebird Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 :popcorn:no reason i just really like popcorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 MOC did...Not every bike...trust me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I totally beg to differ...Hinds/ASK will stay in business simply cause they will sell bikes far lower than Pony will. I guarantee Pony, as MOC did, will hit people with full retail prices or -$100-$300 off MSRP...Pfffft! Right to ASK or Hinds..Cost + $$$$.The difference lies in return customers. Those other dealers are living only because they pull people solely based on the price. When it all counts, those customers usually do not return. Look inside those dealers and REALLY look around. If they DID have a large customer base that is returning to buy bikes, parts, accessories, etc., do you think they'd look like the shit holes they do?Dealers that have been bleeding for years are going to be in trouble from this point forward. ASK will probably stick around due to the fact they can condense shops and inventory and still live. Hinds? I know they are not in the best financial situation from what a lot of people have said. Although rumors, it seems that in this industry, it is a very small circle and the truth is usually occuring moreso than the fiction part.I think in the end, HNW and Pony will be the go to shops for the immediate CBus area. Other shops surrounding CBus will grow due to the fact that MOC has gone bye-bye and the fact that ASK sucks.Hinds is never on the top of the list of dealers selling units in large numbers. They may squeek through due to low inventory, but I think they won't do well or be a factor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 You're kidding I hope. Pony is the most expensive on most things they sell. Most people simply go there to try on what they want..verify the size needed then go home and order online....cheaper w/shipping. You think it's going to be any different with bikes...I think not...watch and see. As soon as they are open for bike sales...I will take a day of the dealer running for an 09 R6. Who will be cheaper of all dealers in Cols? Place bets now!How about you find out how much growth they have year to year and tell me how that happens if EVERYONE simply goes in to try stuff on and order on the net...One thing to keep in mind is what we call a RETAIL SALES AGREEMENT that all dealers sign that states they cannot advertise below a certain % or can only advertise at MSRP. That means, you can go to any site that sells AStars, Arai, Shoei, Oakley, Fox, Thor, Icon, Sidi, etc., etc., etc. and find it at MAYBE 10% cheaper.Thing you need to consider is that they have it NOW. Sure, maybe certain items you can find at cheaper prices and wait a few days and save minimal. Or, you can have it today and be out riding and enjoying it for maybe 10% more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 MOC did...What about this - Who says Pony will sell at retail? Maybe they will - maybe they won't. Who cares? It's going to lay in the fact that AFTER the sale and when the customer can be directed to the 100,000 square foot accessory show room that they can find the difference. How many customers finance their accessories when they buy a bike? A LOT.That means Pony may be able to do some creative marketing to where at the point of purchase, you get something relating to that accessories showroom. Maybe free product, maybe a big discount, maybe can get special financing for a certain dollar amount, who knows? In the end, they have something that NOBODY in CBus can touch - their power in buying and the fact they have 100 times more product than anywhere within MILES of CBus...I think you have something against Pony. That's cool. However, shoot me 5 items you can buy cheaper somewhere else RIGHT NOW - today. Not something you bought 6 months ago from ebay and a buyer not an actual dealer...Tires? Sure - they don't advertise their best tire prices because they want those folks local who want them mounted and balanced. Go look at the purchase they made on Dunlop Qualifyers. 180 and 120 sets for under $300... Just an example...The close out center is something that you need to look at Bob's, Chap, Motosport, etc at to find such deals on closed out inventory. They buy THOUSANDS of a single product in a certain one time buy that would fill the showrooms of any dealerships nearby. You cannot compete against that. $39 helmets at retail? $99 jackets that were $300 just a few months ago? It's crazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 (edited) .OK....first off, I don't have a problem with anyone or any shop for that matter. That shit with HNW....I'm over it, so refrain from making me out to be the problem guy. I'm stating what I feel, my opinion. Agree or not...that's fine with me. Hinds is never on the top of the list of dealers selling units in large numbers.Wrong...One of the big 4 just sent Josh and his wife to Hawaii for having the most sales in the area.Look inside those dealers and REALLY look around. If they DID have a large customer base that is returning to buy bikes, parts, accessories, etc., do you think they'd look like the shit holes they do?Why do you feel just because business is nice they need to go and build a 30K sq ft building? What they have is working...why fix it.It's going to lay in the fact that AFTER the sale and when the customer can be directed to the 100,000 square foot accessory show room that they can find the difference. How many customers finance their accessories when they buy a bike? A LOT.I agree there...one stop shopI think you have something against Pony.NO I DONT!!!shoot me 5 items you can buy cheaper somewhere else RIGHT NOW - today. Do you really want to play this game...You know as well as I do there are 5 items in there that's cheaper elsewhere..I mean, dude be realHow about you find out how much growth they have year to year and tell me how that happens if EVERYONE simply goes in to try stuff on and order on the net...There is no doubt in my mind that Pony isn't doing great. I am sure they are and will continue to...that's great.One thing to keep in mind is what we call a RETAIL SALES AGREEMENT that all dealers sign that states they cannot advertise below a certain % or can only advertise at MSRP. That means, you can go to any site that sells AStars, Arai, Shoei, Oakley, Fox, Thor, Icon, Sidi, etc., etc., etc. and find it at MAYBE 10% cheaper.Most likely 10% cheaper..Is cheaper...cheaper to you or do you have to get a certain % off to be "cheaper" to you?Thing you need to consider is that they have it NOW. Sure, maybe certain items you can find at cheaper prices and wait a few days and save minimal. Or, you can have it today and be out riding and enjoying it for maybe 10% more...So you've never done this...not once, never? Edited December 14, 2008 by Putty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 OK....first off, I don't have a problem with anyone or any shop for that matter. That shit with HNW....I'm over it, so refrain from making me out to be the problem guy. I'm stating what I feel, my opinion. Agree or not...that's fine with me.The point is that you seem to have a beef with Pony. I wasn't referring solely to HNW... Everyone's got their go to dealership. Good or bad, there are shops that we tend to go to because we have friends that work there and maybe give us a good deal, etc... No issues. Just comes across as you sorta following the side of Hinds and bashing Pony. Afterall, they did tell everyone to go to the big accessory store and look at what you want and go to them for a better deal. That's sorta low, no?Especially when Hinds CANNOT get a LOT of the same product Pony gets... Wrong...One of the big 4 just sent Josh and his wife to Hawaii for having the most sales in the area.The Hawaii trip is something for dealers that have sold units well in a set category. I believe that was with Suzuki and it is regionally. Let's look at the Suzuki dealers in their region... There are some shitty Suzuki dealers in the mix and some dealers that don't sell a load of Suzukis compared to other brands they have... Whatever the case, I was referring to dealers in Ohio. They aren't the top dogs... It really doesn't matter as the amount of units you sell isn't really the point. It's more quality vs. quantity.Also, look at it this way - if Hinds is doing so damn well, why is it that they are STILL saying they are going to build a new building and yet still have yet to do so? Also, why is it that they have lost more brands from the shop (whether that's due to non payments or just the lack of stocking inventory) and carry next to nothing in terms of what other dealers carry? It isn't all about units. The Buddy deals they try and sell can help assist in those numbers...Why do you feel just because business is nice they need to go and build a 30K sq ft building? What they have is working...why fix it.It's HINDS that keeps telling everyone they are going to be building a new building. We all just sit here and wait for it to actually happen... As far as the building they are in, if you think the old adage "If it is working, why fix it?" is a great answer, then the old Katana would be the top of the line sportbike we have to choose from.The thing is that dealerships need to put more effort in what they do. Leaving a building looking like shit, stuffing bikes close together and seemingly never arranging them to suit looking at them by customers, not carrying popular products in stock, not having knowledgeable sales staff, having a service department that has had units go out of the store with mouse nests in them (and you seem fine with that saying you have slip ups once in a while....), having ads that are deceptive and somewhat elusive in their set-up (buddy packs and going out FOR business), having an owner that tends to put more money in his vintage racing efforts than the shop, etc., etc., etc. may work for you, but the general public isn't stupid. They are going to see a lot of things that may make them feel they need to go somewhere else.If they think and feel it is fine, that's cool. To a lot of people who have chimed in on these Hinds threads have pointed out - they feel it isn't fine or OK... That's a majority of this sector. What do you think the rest of the buying public think? Do you really want to play this game...You know as well as I do there are 5 items in there that's cheaper elsewhere..I mean, dude be real.Yes, I do. I want to play this game you seemingly are not wanting to play.Find me these 5 things: ALL have to be current product and in stock1) An Icon Jacket or AStar Jacket. Top two brands in the industry2) Shoei, Arai, Scorpion helmets. All three are the top selling in their classes.3) Fox, Thor, Answer. Top three MX brands in the country.Out of those three categories, there should be enough for 5 items. If you're going to do tires, that's cool. We'll have to get someone to verify Pony's store prices and see. What you need to consider on tire choices is that you'll have to pay shipping sometimes, mounting charges, and time.If you want to do close-outs, you need to understand that some items may not be closed out or not available to all dealers...Try it and let's see. I think I have listed the most common and popular items purchased...Most likely 10% cheaper..Is cheaper...cheaper to you or do you have to get a certain % off to be "cheaper" to you?. 10% isn't enough. To save $10 on a $100 item isn't worth the waiting. I can drive to Pony and buy it today and slap it on and ride while you wait at least 2-4 days for the same thing. Now, 25% or more makes me think to do it online. But that never happens. I can argue 10% all day long. Your time, waiting, possible labor, etc are all worth something...So you've never done this...not once, never?I buy from Pony a lot. I also buy from about three other dealers depending on who has what and who has it in stock and at what point I am at a shop and need something. I buy hard parts usually from one shop, specialty items at another and when I walk around Pony, it is hard to tell what I will buy because if it is in front of me, I will take advantage of that and buy it if I need it.For example, I usually buy my oil from Pony. Why? They are the only ones to carry the Motul I need. I am not about to search the internet and waste a ton of time for oil I can get today and now. I bought a set of plastic for my son's KX65 because it came with Monster Energy FX graphics and was in white like he wanted from Ebay. I didn't even ask ANY of the shops to look it up and find it. Why? They couldn't get the price as I know dealer cost and what it would be and the time factor involved. So, I bought on line... Now, it was crap plastic that isn't available through most dealers so it isn't a fair item to compare against say Polisport, Acerbis, UFO, etc. The plastic is going to be shit, but it will work for what we need...Overall, what happens is the real thing we ought to discuss is why you don't have Hinds order and get you the stuff you want. Why don't you go to them since you have a friend/s that work there and could get you probably 10% over dealer. Is it because they can't get a lot of the same things Pony can and other dealers can? Is it because they don't have it in stock and you have to wait so you go to Pony? Tell me that. I'd be VERY interested why you don't do ALL your motorcycle related business via them or via the internet... Why do you shop at Pony at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 (edited) The point is that you seem to have a beef with Pony.Yet again....I have beef with no one except Flounder. Year round beef. Anyways, I have a lot of friends that work there and I tend to go there a lot to just walk around and admire. Therefore, please don't portray me as a person having beef cause I know what's going to happen...it's gonna get back and i'll spend the entire summer saying "Lizard took that the wrong way blah blah". The Hawaii trip is something for dealers that have sold units well in a set category. I believe that was with Suzuki and it is regionally. So they have to be doing well if no other deal "In that category" won the trip, right.......right. It really doesn't matter as the amount of units you sell isn't really the point. It's more quality vs. quantity.Are you looking for a reach around too? I mean seriously...I go in a dealer knowing what I want. I just want you to make the price right and be respectful to me. That's IT. I don't care if I need to meet you in a doublewide trailer...I want the unit lower than anyone else is willing sell it to me. Dealers whether bikes, cars, boats or planes want units OUT the door. No good to them in the building. if Hinds is doing so damn well, why is it that they are STILL saying they are going to build a new building and yet still have yet to do so? I have no idea. I'd like to know though. "If it is working, why fix it?" is a great answer, then the old Katana would be the top of the line sportbike we have to choose from.So totally can't compare the changes in technology to a building. having a service department that has had units go out of the store with mouse nests in them (and you seem fine with that saying you have slip ups once in a while....),I so didn't say the mouse thing happens...Thanks for those words...went well with my eggs.having ads that are deceptive and somewhat elusive in their set-up (buddy packs and going out FOR business), having an owner that tends to put more money in his vintage racing efforts than the shop, etc., etc., etc. may work for you, but the general public isn't stupid. They are going to see a lot of things that may make them feel they need to go somewhere else.I never see their ads, so I have no idea what you're talking about nor do I ever visit their website. Jeff is just having fun as you are with that pretty new 1000 you bought... Yes, I do. I want to play this game you seemingly are not wanting to play.I'll play, but when I get time. This isn't high priority to me...hell, it's not my shit.10% isn't enough. To save $10 on a $100 item isn't worth the waiting.Depends on how much you spent before you start to realize you just dished out a lot of cash. On the AR-15 I just built. 10% was $40 bucks on a part that offered me free shipping. I searched google for 15 mins looking for the coupon code. So it does matter. I can drive to Pony and buy it today and slap it on and ride while you wait at least 2-4 days for the same thing.You're looking at the convenience of it all. Often times the ability to have it now is worth a few $$ more....I agree.Lastly, You win on this argument and the other cause it appears there is no end to it, so whatever you come back with I don't intend on replying. I've spent too much time talking about stuff that matters very little to me. I know where i'll buy bikes and so do you. Your deal isn't helping me and vice versa. Therefore, all this talk is useless. Just for people that don't know much about prices...DO YOUR HOMEWORK. It is very possible to get taken on a deal no matter how sweet the dealer makes it look. If you get took and find out later...don't be mad at them, it's business. You were too anxious and lazy to shop. Edited December 14, 2008 by Putty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSRAaron Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I know that I have at least 6-7 orders on file where I have saved a lot of money IMO, and compared to other shops and Iron Pony. Arai, RSTAICHI, Astar, Sidi, vortex, DID, bridgestone, suomy, woodcraft. And from what I heard, tire prices are getting harder and harder to get decent discounts on. bummer But, when it comes to getting something on clearance, fluids, and other little things, normally the first place I think of is Iron Pony. With such a large facility and customer base, why not charge similiar to MOC? It's not gonna hurt them overall IMO. I just hope they build an extremely good relationship with their customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I know that I have at least 6-7 orders on file where I have saved a lot of money IMO, and compared to other shops and Iron Pony. Arai, RSTAICHI, Astar, Sidi, vortex, DID, bridgestone, suomy, woodcraft. And from what I heard, tire prices are getting harder and harder to get decent discounts on. bummer But, when it comes to getting something on clearance, fluids, and other little things, normally the first place I think of is Iron Pony. With such a large facility and customer base, why not charge similiar to MOC? It's not gonna hurt them overall IMO. I just hope they build an extremely good relationship with their customers.Again, on CURRENT product, you aren't going to save more than 10% online for AStar, Arai, Sidi, Suomy, and Woodcraft. Again, current... If you do find it, it won't be long as these companies have a Retail Sales Agreement signed and doesn't allow for more than 10% at most if any.I know you can get better deals on Vortex and tires, but again - you need to price at the shop and not their online store for tire prices as they are typically cheaper...RSTaichi? Good luck. Not many shops carry them. Moto Liberty is the only one I know and maybe STG...Also, the point is especially on such minimal items - $400 helmet and saving $40 can be some sort of deal - call it enough towards oil change, etc. I however, feel getting it now is worth $40. I can go and buy it today and ride home and wear it today. You? Gotta wait at least 2-4 days... Maybe that's fine and cool, but again, not typical to find 10% on many items. I know Woodcraft doesn't even allow Ebay sales less than retail...I might be wrong on the Arai thingy. I'll find out tomorrow or Tuesday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSRAaron Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 (edited) Again, on CURRENT product, you aren't going to save more than 10% online for AStar, Arai, Sidi, Suomy, and Woodcraft. Again, current... If you do find it, it won't be long as these companies have a Retail Sales Agreement signed and doesn't allow for more than 10% at most if any.I know you can get better deals on Vortex and tires, but again - you need to price at the shop and not their online store for tire prices as they are typically cheaper...RSTaichi? Good luck. Not many shops carry them. Moto Liberty is the only one I know and maybe STG...Also, the point is especially on such minimal items - $400 helmet and saving $40 can be some sort of deal - call it enough towards oil change, etc. I however, feel getting it now is worth $40. I can go and buy it today and ride home and wear it today. You? Gotta wait at least 2-4 days... Maybe that's fine and cool, but again, not typical to find 10% on many items. I know Woodcraft doesn't even allow Ebay sales less than retail...I might be wrong on the Arai thingy. I'll find out tomorrow or Tuesday...I agree $40 on a $400 helmet isnt that impressive, especially if you have to pay for shipping and have to wait on top of that. But then again, I'm not talking $40 Again, I have saved more than that on all the brands I posted, maybe close on the woodcraft and tires tho, cant remember. These arent listed prices. Define current? My Arai products were both brand new '08 models in early 08 Edited December 14, 2008 by exSRAaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Let me figure this out. A local shop with very good prices and most of what I need in stock. No guessing on sizes, I can touch, feel and judge quality and fit before I buy. We are lucky to have both Competition Accessory's and Iron Pony close by. Don't be too short sighted or we will lose both of these local resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 I agree $40 on a $400 helmet isnt that impressive, especially if you have to pay for shipping and have to wait on top of that. But then again, I'm not talking $40 Again, I have saved more than that on all the brands I posted, maybe close on the woodcraft and tires tho, cant remember. These arent listed prices. Define current? My Arai products were both brand new '08 models in early 08Show me what you bought and price and we can compare notes. Again, not sure with Arai. However, most have retail standards agreements and if they sell lower, they get in trouble... That's why they are there - customer service should be first above price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSRAaron Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 (edited) Show me what you bought and price and we can compare notes. Again, not sure with Arai. However, most have retail standards agreements and if they sell lower, they get in trouble... That's why they are there - customer service should be first above price...pm coming ur way tom.. Edited December 15, 2008 by exSRAaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluebird Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 hinds turning to craigslist to tell everyone they are still open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfman Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 hinds turning to craigslist to tell everyone they are still open I saw that on CL and thought it was Hinds, but wasn't sure what their addy was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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