Mallard Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 People rant and rave about these "Ecotec" engines I have yet to see one kickin ass around C-bus. Same with my motor "1.8t" It was claimed to be the best tuner friendly motor out about 4 yrs ago. But with out big $$$ neither engine can or will be fast. Everyone has there downfalls but I think even in this situation this car cost is more to mod than a brand spankin new GTI. And by the time people do break the software no one will really have intrest and the car, it will be long gone. I'm not bashing I'm just thinking out loud. Well, "kickin ass" is a relative term. GM's goal is to kick ass against other stock vehicles in the category, and stock-to-stock it does pretty well. Here's some lap times for you to compare: Nurburgring Lap Times 8:20 - 148.320 - BMW M3 E36 8:20 - 148.320 - 2008 Honda NSX 8:20 - 148.320 - Porche 993 GT3 8:22 - BMW M3 E46 8:22 - BMW M Coupe 8:22- Mercedes-Benz C55 8:22.38- Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R 8:22.85 Cobalt SS (not yet official) 8:23 - Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23 - Porsche Boxster S 8:23 - Porsche 996 Carrera 8:24 - Mercedes SLK 55 AMG 8:24 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi 8:25 - Audi RS4 8:25 -- 2007 BMW M5 Touring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 ^^^^end of arguement^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonkiller Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Well, "kickin ass" is a relative term. GM's goal is to kick ass against other stock vehicles in the category, and stock-to-stock it does pretty well. Here's some lap times for you to compare: Nurburgring Lap Times 8:20 - 148.320 - BMW M3 E36 8:20 - 148.320 - 2008 Honda NSX 8:20 - 148.320 - Porche 993 GT3 8:22 - BMW M3 E46 8:22 - BMW M Coupe 8:22- Mercedes-Benz C55 8:22.38- Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R 8:22.85 Cobalt SS (not yet official) 8:23 - Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23 - Porsche Boxster S 8:23 - Porsche 996 Carrera 8:24 - Mercedes SLK 55 AMG 8:24 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi 8:25 - Audi RS4 8:25 -- 2007 BMW M5 Touring dunno about you but If I was in that catergory I wouldnt pick that SS over any of the cars on that list. You can have the SS. I'll take the GT3 along with the gold digger in the passenger seat.:burn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 The Cobalt SS is considerably cheaper than every other car in that list of Nurburgring lap times. Basically, the point is that a stock Cobalt SS can handle as good as, or better than, some higher class cars with much higher price tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonneVille Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Tell you what, you can have your GT-3, I'll take a Cobalt SS Turbo, and use the rest of my cash to buy a G8, a PCM burn for both vehicles (when they become available), serious mods to both cars, and a motorcycle. I love when somebody looks at a list like that and says, "Well, I'll take this one..." and names a car that's FIVE TIMES the cost of the car that you're talking about, yet is only fractionally faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 dunno about you but If I was in that catergory I wouldnt pick that SS over any of the cars on that list. You can have the SS. I'll take the GT3 along with the gold digger in the passenger seat.:burn: The new SS is the biggest performance value on the market, and will considerably outperform competitors in its class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Mallard, you seem to know alot about this platform. Do you know anything about the stock block internals? Forged? big rods/pistons? compression ratio? At what psi is the 260hp generated? In other words, can this stock block ecotec handle 20-25psi daily? I have always heard the ecotec is a great engine and really stout but like Neonkiller have yet to see one. Maybe it's because the platform it was put in for so many years was just crap? The exception to this being the newest platform's that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Overall are the wrx's reliable? yes. yes indeed. i like the cobalt ss, i do. im wondering whats going to keep it from being the neon srt4 of a few years ago. i thought that car would develop u HUGE following, but it doesnt seem to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 OOPS miss-read. Delete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 wrx's can easly run 12's on the stock block. there are plenty of guys on cos running vf39-20g turbos on stock block with over 100K on there motors. When it snows and your car has way to much tq to even hook up, I will be blowing by you with traction. There is no way aftering owning a AWD car i would go back to FWD. When i had my monte it was faster then my stock wrx but the wrx was way more fun. I've got no doubt a cobalt turbo will be fast. Look at the SRT-4 its fast as shit with a couple mods. But its still FWD, It still won't own on snow like a wrx. You live in ohio snow is a fact of life. Get a used wrx toss exhaust/up/down/tune run mid-low 13's Add a turbo to that setup and intercooler run mid - high 12's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Mallard, you seem to know alot about this platform. Do you know anything about the stock block internals? Forged? big rods/pistons? compression ratio? At what psi is the 260hp generated? In other words, can this stock block ecotec handle 20-25psi daily? I have always heard the ecotec is a great engine and really stout but like Neonkiller have yet to see one. Maybe it's because the platform it was put in for so many years was just crap? The exception to this being the newest platform's that is. There are many forms of Ecotecs. The 2.0L in the SS/SC and Saab 9-3 turbo have a forged crank, forged rods, and I'm not sure about pistons. They're around 9:1 CR and GM rates them good to around 300HP...and sells stage kits that takes them pretty far along. The Cobalt that won the Turbo Magazine Time Attack event had a GM Stage 2 with forged pistons and nitrous. There are Cobalt SS/SC's running 13 sec quarter mile's on a stock block. The 2.2L is similarly rated (300HP on a stock block, cast bottom end) by the GM build book, and most, if not all, of the race (drag, powerboat, etc) motors are based on the 2.2L. Tuning options on this varient are non-existant though. (HPtuners doesn't support) The 2.4L has a cast bottom end but have proven to be pretty stout in the Solstice/Sky. There are stock bock cars putting out around 400HP and 430 ft-lbs. Who knows about longevity, but there are forged rods and pistons available, and HP tuners is supporting this ECU. It has ~10.2:1 CR. The 2.0L SIDI Turbo engine has the same bottom end specs as the SS/SC engine except has specially cast pistons due to the DI fuel system. The stock turbo puts out a maximum of 20psi with the stock cal, 23 psi with one of the aftermarket flashes, and 26 psi with the GM reflash used in the NOPI drift cars and SCCA Club Racers. It's a Borg-Warner K04 twin scroll turbo, oil squirters on the pistons, independantly variable intake and exhaust cams, closed loop wideband air/fuel/boost control, etc, etc. It redlines at 6200 RPM, and I'm waiting to see if that limit is imposed because of the turbo running out of efficiency or a limit of the cam driven fuel pump. If the RPM can be pushed higher there will be some nice turbo upgrades for this car. All the Ecotec's share the same block and head casting. There are two generations of Ecotec. The 2.4L and 2.0L SIDI are Gen II, while the others exist in both generations. I'll also add that the 2.0L turbo Solstice get between 30-32 mpg, while my 2.4L N/A has only gotten 27 mpg on a really good day. But I also beat on it pretty hard during the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolrayz Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Mallard, you seem to know alot about this platform. Do you know anything about the stock block internals? Forged? big rods/pistons? compression ratio? At what psi is the 260hp generated? In other words, can this stock block ecotec handle 20-25psi daily? I have always heard the ecotec is a great engine and really stout but like Neonkiller have yet to see one. Maybe it's because the platform it was put in for so many years was just crap? The exception to this being the newest platform's that is. They had a product engineer at the cleveland auto show and I was asking him about the boost #'s. He said it runs 12psi but could max out at 20psi with a tune. It seems pretty potent for the money. I was truly suprised, I was checking it out basicaly as a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 They had a product engineer at the cleveland auto show and I was asking him about the boost #'s. He said it runs 12psi but could max out at 20psi with a tune. It seems pretty potent for the money. I was truly suprised, I was checking it out basicaly as a joke. The ECU controls to a torque and will use as much boost (up to 20psi) as it needs to get that torque. People see anywhere between 16 and 20 psi stock, depending on barametric pressure, temperature, altitude, etc. See my above post for the different boost ranges of stock vs. reflashes. The ECU is very good at calculating torque. Rumor has it that on the dyno the ECU calculates within 3% of actual, everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Get the Si and turbo it. Watch the video of the civic on the 2nd half of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosted98gst Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 why are they comparing it to a R32 skyline? that car is so old and outdated, it started production back in 1989-1994, what are the reasons for these cars making it on the list? id hope a car made in 08 would do better then a car that was made 18 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supplicium Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 i guarantee if you you test drive all of the cars you have mentioned, and you dont mind spending a tad extra you will choose a GTI. pm me if you do, I can hook you up with a salesman at Hatfield that will give you the best price with no hassles. also, if you have any questions about them pm me. if it was warmer out and the gti was out of storage id give you a ride in mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 If you test drive a wrx and a GTI let me know I will put you in a stage 1 wrx or something a GTI sucks IMHO your still FWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 drive a FWD car with power in the snow. Then I will let you drive my car which I'm sure will out do any stuck FWD power car you will find. You will be sold at that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 why are they comparing it to a R32 skyline? that car is so old and outdated, it started production back in 1989-1994, what are the reasons for these cars making it on the list? id hope a car made in 08 would do better then a car that was made 18 years ago. The list is an excerpt from a list Nurburgring Lap Times for production cars. Who cares how old they are if those are the times posted? You'll see that the SS is in good company if it runs an 8:22, no matter how old/new the cars are. You can see a complete list here: http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRTurbo04 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 drive a FWD car with power in the snow. Then I will let you drive my car which I'm sure will out do any stuck FWD power car you will find. You will be sold at that point my car drives fine in the snow on street tires no snow tires...an u know my car has power to the wheels...an how many days out of the year does it snow...less then 60 days ...so 300days of perfectly drivable weather... eeeh for those 60 days ill drive slow or drive my suv ha bill u me right now from a dig to 130..we will see whats better :asshole: lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fist302 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Thorne, i DD a 95 sho taurus (212whp no LSD) and last year i drove my 5.0 mustang through the winter so i know how much it sucks. Thats the main reason im considering a wrx and the sound is badass for a 4banger. Il deff pm you andrew if i end up wanting the GTI. IF there is a nice srt4 i might check one out but id be a little worried with no warrenty and the fact that it was prolly raced/beat on. As far as comparing the cobalt to the r32 idc if its old its still a TT AWD v6. The cobalt was 21 seconds ahead of the closest FWD ( integra type r. There is no denying that the cobalt is fast and handles amazing for its price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosted98gst Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 The list is an excerpt from a list Nurburgring Lap Times for production cars. Who cares how old they are if those are the times posted? You'll see that the SS is in good company if it runs an 8:22, no matter how old/new the cars are. You can see a complete list here: http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073 yeah I know but im just saying the r32 had the shitty rb20 and set up awd/ suspension is no where near as good as the newer cars, how well did the r34 do? I was just saying either way of age its comparing to a car that had old tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosted98gst Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Thorne, i DD a 95 sho taurus (212whp no LSD) and last year i drove my 5.0 mustang through the winter so i know how much it sucks. Thats the main reason im considering a wrx and the sound is badass for a 4banger. Il deff pm you andrew if i end up wanting the GTI. IF there is a nice srt4 i might check one out but id be a little worried with no warrenty and the fact that it was prolly raced/beat on. As far as comparing the cobalt to the r32 idc if its old its still a TT AWD v6. The cobalt was 21 seconds ahead of the closest FWD ( integra type r. There is no denying that the cobalt is fast and handles amazing for its price. yeah in no way im not saying it can not handle ect, i was just wondering why there was a 1989 r32 on there and a 98 nsx. btw its an inline 6 not v6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 my car drives fine in the snow on street tires no snow tires...an u know my car has power to the wheels...an how many days out of the year does it snow...less then 60 days ...so 300days of perfectly drivable weather... eeeh for those 60 days ill drive slow or drive my suv ha bill u me right now from a dig to 130..we will see whats better :asshole: lol Allignment this weekend then we can do dig to 120. Short gears man. Until I get the MBC on and some type of BOV I can't use fifth 100%. 22lbs of boost + stock BPV = leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRTurbo04 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Allignment this weekend then we can do dig to 120. Short gears man. Until I get the MBC on and some type of BOV I can't use fifth 100%. 22lbs of boost + stock BPV = leak. fine...we will do it then..btw my car hasent changed since the last time we raced... any one got a camera? oh an im ording myturbo this weekend i might hit u up to help me tune my car if ur available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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