We have the right to bear arms!!!!

[TTQ B4U]

I think there's a much greater likely hood and number of typical street thugs running around around packing a gun than there are the garden variety nut job pulling walking around with his hunting rifle just waiting to snap on his coworkers and his 15 minutes of fame. I'll take my chances on the hunting riffle nut vs making a FA weapon more readily available on the street.

 

A basic hunting rifle has much more potential for killing in the hands of a nut job. They could run around picking off folks one at a time from 1/8 mile away easily. The morons usually just head to a nice safe "gun free zone" and shoot as many people as possible at once because they know they'll be (in)famous for it.

 

Valid point in terms of ability to handle the gun properly. Let's make FA weapons that are more difficult to handle on top of being more effective killing machines available to everyone. Once they hit the general population they will then be sold / made available to those that we really don't want having such a weapon so now instead of having a single stray shot go into the wrong house, there can be a number of stray shots going through said house.

 

That type would actually be less effective with a full auto weapon because an untrained shooter won't know how to handle the muzzle climb, so they'd put a couple rounds in to a victim and dump the rest of the mag up the wall and ceiling behind them.

 

I've seen the videos, but at the time Katrina hit, LA state law gave the police chief the authority to take guns during an emergency. Since then lawmakers have re-written the law. The guns were also being returned, but ironically what was being reported is only a small number were ever registered, and many of the owners didn't pass the background checks. Others never came to claim them and I can't imagine why.

 

IIRC there are still plenty of Executive Orders that allow the gov't to do all kinds of things during such emergencies. Ironically, Daryll and Daryll are likely their own worst enemy when it comes to changing this as they don't participate in or often know how to evoke real change, but gosh darn it they want to carry a gun because they have that right.

 

As far as New Orleans, I don't think anyone would have had a problem with the police disarming looters and criminals. However, that's not what they did. They went house to house and took the guns from law abiding home owners who needed them more than ever to defend themselves from the dirtbag looters. Have you not watched the video of the cops barging in to a house, knocking down an old lady and taking her gun? Oh, this all was totally reasonable...

[TTQ B4U]

And you're more likely to be in a car crash within x miles of home.....yadda, yadda. However, you're more likely going to die if someone comes at you with a FA weapon that with a standard gun....but hey, let's even the odds and give you a FA weapon too. Now I'm not a statics whiz, but I'm pretty sure the odds of someone including those around us getting hurt will go up with FA weapons involved.

 

Getting mad always fixes things. Especially when you own a gun so why not make it a FA one.

 

It's not just about freedom...it's about rights.....and what makes your right to carry a FA Gun greater than another's right to life? Don't tell me having FA weapons on the streets is going to make the world a safer place.

 

Driving in a car presents much more of a threat to my daily life, than does those who own a gun legally, or illegally. Look at what kills more people in America.......the car.....or the gun.

 

It's about freedom......freedom from the government.....freedom from your neighbor.....and the freedom to make your life what you wish.

[Science Abuse]

NO because it hurts the environment and uses too many fossil fuels! What right do you have to hurt the environment that everyone uses?

It's not what you drive, but how you drive it. A prius only gets 17mpg if you drive it hard.

 

I would also like to point out that in the past year in Columbus, more people have died from racing wrecks than from automatic weapons.

You git, it's because nobody uses automatic weapons. Give everyone an oozie and have them use it daily, see what that does to your statistic.

 

Lastly, you want this car? Check your TA PMs.

[TTQ B4U]

That's the gun battle where the cops were completely out-gunned right? the one where they had to borrow high powered semiautomatic rifles from a local gun store to match the fire power of the robbers? Yeah, let's proliferate the availability of such guns so that eventually even kids have access to them.

 

As an example of full auto guns not being perfect killing machines, take a look back at the North Hollywood Bank of America robbery in '97. Two guys with full body armor and three illegally modified machine guns (an AR-15, a HK91 and and AKM) fired ~1300 rounds and the only two people to die that day were the scumbags themselves.

[Guest bimmer95]

I really don't see where anyone was proposed changing anything other than the outright ban on the manufacturer of new full auto weapons. No one is saying, "lets start selling machine guns to anyone that wants one with no background check!" Only two of the current 250000+ legally registered machine guns have been used to murder anyone in the past 74 years. The only thing getting rid of the 5/86 manufacturing ban would change is the insane prices that current transferable full auto guns fetch. Why you're so worried about your neighbor owning a legally registered machine gun is beyond me. Worry about the criminals illegally modifying their own, it's not a hard thing to do and the ban isn't stopping them because their other planned crimes fetch stiffer penalties than an NFA weapons violation anyway.

[TTQ B4U]

it's not about what the bad guys think...it's about what they have access to. so give me a fucking break and let's not make it easier for FA weapons to get into the hands of those that are already mentally fucked up.

 

Laws to ban machine guns are hilarious.

 

If someone is willing to kill someone, do you really think they're going to care if the firearm they're using to do it is legal?

 

Give me a fucking break.

 

The current laws for owning a legit machine gun are fine - they simply need to allow them to be produced again so prices aren't so high.

[Conesmasher]

And you're more likely to be in a car crash within x miles of home.....yadda, yadda. However, you're more likely going to die if someone comes at you with a FA weapon that with a standard gun....but hey, let's even the odds and give you a FA weapon too. Now I'm not a statics whiz, but I'm pretty sure the odds of someone including those around us getting hurt will go up with FA weapons involved.

 

Getting mad always fixes things. Especially when you own a gun so why not make it a FA one.

 

It's not just about freedom...it's about rights.....and what makes your right to carry a FA Gun greater than another's right to life? Don't tell me having FA weapons on the streets is going to make the world a safer place.

 

A FA gun is no more a threat to somoenes life than any another other handgun out there. All it takes is one bullet to end someones life. The bullet doesn't care weather it's fully automatic or manual.

 

Just because someone would choose a FA gun, doesn't mean that they consider someone else's life less precious, perhaps they feel the need to have more protection from others who intend on harming them. They obviously have the right to a "well regulated militia".

 

Having FA weapons on the "streets" may not make the world a safer place, but having FA weapons in the hands of "responsible law abiding mentally competent and stable citizens" should definitely make the United States a greater place to live.

 

936,000 deaths by cardiovascular disease

553,000 deaths by cancer

69,000 deaths by diabetes

65,000 deaths by influenza/pnemonia

43,000 deaths by motor vehicle accidents

36,000 deaths by renal failure

31,000 deaths by blood infections/septicemia

28,000 deaths by firearms

 

 

A FA is more dangerous, but should not be limited. Just as a Hummer is much more danerous in a crash, than a Chevy Aveo. However both have the right to own one. Motor vehicle accidents are a much better argument than people realize. Most people don't think of cars as FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. I believe they if not the same, they are as close as it comes.

[TTQ B4U]

Well then given that, let the law stand and keep the prices high because there's no legitimate reason for my neighbor to purchase and have a FA weapon that poses a greater risk than not having it at all.

 

It also doesn't make sense to make the weapons more readily available either. Let it be as difficult and expensive to get them as we can. It's not rocket surgery to realize that if something like FA Weapons are made more readily available and easy to get, the rates of their use will go up.

 

I really don't see where anyone was proposed changing anything other than the outright ban on the manufacturer of new full auto weapons. No one is saying, "lets start selling machine guns to anyone that wants one with no background check!"

 

Only two of the current 250000+ legally registered machine guns have been used to murder anyone in the past 74 years. The only thing getting rid of the 5/86 manufacturing ban would change is the insane prices that current transferable full auto guns fetch.

 

Why you're so worried about your neighbor owning a legally registered machine gun is beyond me. Worry about the criminals illegally modifying their own, it's not a hard thing to do and the ban isn't stopping them because their other planned crimes fetch stiffer penalties than an NFA weapons violation anyway.

[copperhead]

Eric, what's an oozie?

 

PS, yes give me the car. I'll be around most of the weekend, call me.

[TTQ B4U]

You're right, a car is a good example. How many kids buzz around in cars at 100+mph because they have access to a car that can do it and feel they have the right to do so without a concern for others?

 

But hey, don't let big brother limit my rights/ability to go over 65mph. Just have faith that we'll all do the right thing and not street race or drive like an ass.

 

and let's not forget the pirating of music....it's not like the ability and ease the internet has provided has increased such things....hell no...because we all do the right thing and respect others even with such easy access to free stuff.

 

yeah, I'll remember all this talk of respect and responsible handling of dangerous weapons come next week when I hear all the "legal" fireworks being used "illegally" here in Columbus. I'm sure the dick-head down the street really cares if that bottle rocket lands on my roof or in my shrubs and burns my house down killing my kids.

 

 

A FA is more dangerous, but should not be limited. Just as a Hummer is much more danerous in a crash, than a Chevy Aveo. However both have the right to own one. Motor vehicle accidents are a much better argument than people realize. Most people don't think of cars as FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. I believe they if not the same, they are as close as it comes.

[Conesmasher]

yeah, I'll remember all this talk of respect and responsible handling of dangerous weapons come next week when I hear all the "legal" fireworks being used "illegally" here in Columbus. I'm sure the dick-head down the street really cares if that bottle rocket lands on my roof or in my shrubs and burns my house down killing my kids.

 

And as soon as that happens you have the right to call authorities. If dick-head damages your property, just sue him, you have that right too.

 

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

[copperhead]

Here's a distraction from our gun battle.

 

One of the more compelling arguments I've seen to buy a gun:

 

http://www.columbusracing.com/ubb/icon16.gif <---click it

[suffocateXfaster1647545505]

Machine guns need to be legal to manufacture again.

+1 I concur with your thinking!

[RangerTurbo]

I thought about continuing on in this thread. Then realized, pdqgp will always be un-American, won't use real facts, will never use logic in his arguments, will avoid what's being asked, and repeat himself over and over as his list of "what if" situations to totally deny our Rights is very short indeed.

 

Sounds exactly like the pussified, let the gooberment do everything for me, socialistic anti-American liberal I pointed you to be earlier.

 

 

Go have fun in your Communistic bubble while I go out and shoot my AR15

[TTQ B4U]

Sorry your definition of being un-American involves being whatever the hell you want without consideration of others or a little more broad view of things in our more modern society. Like I said earlier, times change, people change and laws need to change. It's not like your right to bear arms needs to involve a military weapon that you get to enjoy in a recreational fashion.

 

But hey, maybe we should go back to the days of slavery and all carry guns around like back in the wild west and use our AR15's so we can massacre the Native Americans with greater ease.

 

Funny how if all those folks in New Orleans were so scared and pissed about losing their rights to bear arms and fight the big bad government that not one of them opened fire on the troops/police in effort to make a point or stand up for their right they say they believe in so much. Pretty weak. Guess they can talk the talk, but deep down inside they must be the pussified ones....or maybe they are one notch above the Waco Compound folks in brain capacity.

 

So I'll gladly go participate in a civilized society, register a non-FA weapon for my self protection while you act like the freaks in Middle East carrying around your AR15 in your backyard firing it off at whatever you want to make you feel proud and free and so American.

 

I thought about continuing on in this thread. Then realized, pdqgp will always be un-American, won't use real facts, will never use logic in his arguments, will avoid what's being asked, and repeat himself over and over as his list of "what if" situations to totally deny our Rights is very short indeed.

 

Sounds exactly like the pussified, let the gooberment do everything for me, socialistic anti-American liberal I pointed you to be earlier.

 

 

Go have fun in your Communistic bubble while I go out and shoot my AR15

[jeffmeden]

936,000 deaths by cardiovascular disease

553,000 deaths by cancer

69,000 deaths by diabetes

65,000 deaths by influenza/pnemonia

43,000 deaths by motor vehicle accidents

36,000 deaths by renal failure

31,000 deaths by blood infections/septicemia

28,000 deaths by firearms

 

Anyone seen "Thank You For Smoking"? In case this thread hasn't been derailed enough as it is, I would like to point out that the #2 number on that list is caused in large part by people who *choose* to smoke cigarettes. Now where is the harm in a little gun play, I mean it couldn't be worse than lighting up a Marlboro...

[RangerTurbo]

being whatever the hell you want without consideration of others or a little more broad view of things in our more modern society.

Irony's a bitch aint it?, cause that is exactly what you have been spewing this entire thread. That because you think nothing good can come of having anything more than a flint lock rifle, that no one but the army should be allowed to have them. News flash in case you missed the entire point of the original post, 2A is our INDIVIDUAL right as confirmed by SCOTUS. Fighting it and spewing your drivel for massive gun control is being concieted and ignorant to what is really the situation. Not what you think may happen.

 

Until you use some real world facts, and not your own opinions and beliefs, you have no leg to stand on to argue against the 2A and our Right.

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said earlier, times change, people change and laws need to change.

You're right, Laws do need changed and stricken down. You're so amassed in your liberal views you call our Rights laws. Until you know the difference and intelligently talk about it, you're not making any light into the situation.

 

 

 

 

It's not like your right to bear arms needs to involve a military weapon that you get to enjoy in a recreational fashion.

I've already covered the part where the citizens are supposed to have equal access to military armament. How many times are you going to repeat yourself?

 

 

 

 

 

But hey, maybe we should go back to the days of slavery and all carry guns around like back in the wild west and use our AR15's so we can massacre the Native Americans with greater ease.

There is is lady's and gentleman. The liberal gets beat down and almost instinctively compares today to the "wild west" to appeal to themselves that their arguments make any sense. Typical diatribe.

 

 

 

 

 

Funny how if all those folks in New Orleans were so scared and pissed about losing their rights to bear arms and fight the big bad government that not one of them opened fire on the troops/police in effort to make a point or stand up for their right they say they believe in so much. Pretty weak. Guess they can talk the talk, but deep down inside they must be the pussified ones....or maybe they are one notch above the Waco Compound folks in brain capacity.

No, like you they are a media brain washed society uninformed of their Constitutional rights, because as you said they are "poor, uneducated, and not fit to deserve their Rights."

 

So I'll gladly go participate in a civilized society, register a non-FA weapon for my self protection while you act like the freaks in Middle East carrying around your AR15 in your backyard firing it off at whatever you want to make you feel proud and free and so American.

Again, you still can't answer the question about how having an automatic weapon suddenly makes someone a threat to society. You keep skirting around every question that is posed to your hysterical blabberings. If you are going to make a statement, be prepared to answer a question in regards to it.

 

Or can you? All you are running off of is what your bleeding heart predicts what may happen. Disregarding all statistics and facts in order to make yourself feel better about being a sheep.

 

As far as my AR15 goes; it's illegal to shoot it off in my back yard there Mr DoomsDay. I go to public land well away from anyone and anything dangerous and shoot at targets, whether pop cans or paper. NO different than anytime you've ever shot a gun I'd guess. But, by your illogical reasoning, I own an AR15, which makes me instantly insane and running through the streets shooting cats and kids because it's a magical Military style weapon that I'm not capable of handling. Pfft. I also own a Yugo SKS, and a Russian M44. I bet by your thinking my entire town is dead by now right? Give it a break, or some rational thought.

 

 

So again, until you answer the real questions, using some logic, quit repeating all the liberal shit you've already spewed, and talk sensibly, you have nothing to stand on.

[kenny]

it's not about what the bad guys think...it's about what they have access to. so give me a fucking break and let's not make it easier for FA weapons to get into the hands of those that are already mentally fucked up.

 

You totally missed my point. Laws aren't going to change a damn thing about how hard a machine gun is to acquire illegally. Thinking a law is going to change a criminals mind is laughable at best.

[RangerTurbo]

You totally missed my point. Laws aren't going to change a damn thing about how hard a machine gun is to acquire illegally. Thinking a law is going to change a criminals mind is laughable at best.

 

This is the perplexing circle of arguments they use to get stuff banned.

 

"Lets make it illegal, so criminals can't have it"

 

 

They totally over look the definition of why someone is a criminal, its because they break the law! How much more simple is that to understand really?

 

 

 

That's like all those "gun free zones". Those really do work. Just ask Virginia Tech, the LDS church in Utah here, Illinois Univ, the Church in Colorado Springs, WASHINGTON D.C., and Trolley Square Mall in Utah. All of them "gun free", yeap, that law wasn't broken by criminals was it?

[kenny]

Seriously, it's simple. Fucking hippies.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Again, he has no business having one in the burbs...unless your zip-code is in the middle East. Just because one can, doesn't mean they should.

That could be said for plenty of things in this world. Not every firearm owner is crazy, a redneck, or all the above. You don't see the common hood rat toting around say a HK91 in full auto. You won't see Charley the crack dealer letting loose with his belt fed PKM when he does a drive by. The middle east thing did atleast make me laugh, since the shooting standard in Iraq is stick AK over wall, fire until empty, and repeat process. Yes the average person doesn't need a fully automatic weapon, but this is America last I checked, if we want, we can get. Why do you need a 500+ RWHP car? You can't legally do 180mph, so you don't need one. It's because you want one, and can own one. Again, common crimes aren't committed by those with Class 3 firearms, 95% some odd percent is cheap ass, throw away pistols.

[smokinHawk1647545499]

did anyone catch the DC city press conference on this.

they stated that automatic and SEMI-AUTOMATIC guns are still banned

 

which modern day hand gun is not semi automatic? you only have single action revolvers and black powder pistols, how can they ban semi-autos?

[Scotty2Hotty]

Machine guns need to be legal to manufacture again.

Got parts of a M240B, I need to mate with a few more parts :nod:

[RangerTurbo]

did anyone catch the DC city press conference on this.

they stated that automatic and SEMI-AUTOMATIC guns are still banned

 

which modern day hand gun is not semi automatic? you only have single action revolvers and black powder pistols, how can they ban semi-autos?

 

I think the Mayor heinously made that statement out of spite, without thinking how stupid he continued to make himself look.

 

 

It will quickly get shot down as well due to the "in common use" clause in the decision.

[Archie]

pdqgp,

 

A good article for you...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment