Mike C Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 i actually had to increase my VE table about 40% In my experiences, the number has been closer to 40% as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPFSTheFett Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 i tunned my vette for e85 and ran it for 2 months but im poor so i still had stock injectors so i couldn't go WOT i actually had to increase my VE table about 40% why do you need to run an injector controller when you can control everything you need with the tuning software. i hope it's not because the software maxes out at 63lb/hr because there is an easy way around that, or are you going to be running 16 injectors? The problem with the bigger injectors and no controller is the car running at idle. Something to do with it's inability to monitor the flow rates at idle. Not 100% a go on this whole e85 thing now. I really want to do it, for the cooling properties, however the ethanol absorbing water sucks, plus the inconsistancy of the amount of ethanol actually in the fuel. I dunno, we'll get it figured out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The problem with the bigger injectors and no controller is the car running at idle. Something to do with it's inability to monitor the flow rates at idle. Not 100% a go on this whole e85 thing now. I really want to do it, for the cooling properties, however the ethanol absorbing water sucks, plus the inconsistancy of the amount of ethanol actually in the fuel. I dunno, we'll get it figured out! i believe the water problem in ethanol is really if you let it sit for long periods. i let mine sit for 2 weeks without moving and when i drove it agian my fuel trims were still -2, -3 right where i left them. and the inconsistency in the amount of ethanol is not going to be by a big enough factor that your fuel trims won't be able to compensate. and for WOT AFR as long as it's tuned safely you will be fine. if it still bothers you then you can get a device that reads the % ethanol in the fuel. all GM dealers have them it's just a simple volt meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSXRAntwon Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Rob wanna tune mine to run on E85? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Rob wanna tune mine to run on E85? You know Eric has done this about 20 times already right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 all GM dealers have them it's just a simple volt meter. kinda, it reads Hz on a DMM. but i do have it sitting on my bench right now, its alot better than the old way of mixing water in a beaker a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Rob wanna tune mine to run on E85? sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Rex Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 It seems easier to break a 1Kwhp on a 2.0L 4 cyc theses days. 1.21 Jigawatts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-Boost? Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 I'd try the cheaper Meth kid before you go through the hassel of swapping all that stuff out, retuning, etc. etc....when you may get better results using less fuel and for less money. What's another 20lbs. on a street car anyway... This is why you should have kept the Viper and built it up. 1,000+rwhp on PUMP fuel ALL day long... :bangbang: It seems easier to break a 1Kwhp on a 2.0L 4 cyc theses days. Sure on C16 or a much more expensive fuel, NOT pump gas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 I don't get why you'd want to do this.. The first thing that comes to mind is gas mileage; It might not mean much to you but how expensive is E85? Also, the amount of fuel you'd have to dump into the motor compared to higher octane pump gas just doesn't justify any power gains if you ask me. Maybe i'm missing something, but its not worth the effort of converting it all over, IMO. Regardless, I'm still interested in seeing something happen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 i run e85 and its a great fuel vs 114 that i was running. i have had 0 corrisoin issues. actually 0 issures other than tunning to get the best et. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I don't get why you'd want to do this.. The first thing that comes to mind is gas mileage; It might not mean much to you but how expensive is E85? Also, the amount of fuel you'd have to dump into the motor compared to higher octane pump gas just doesn't justify any power gains if you ask me. Maybe i'm missing something, but its not worth the effort of converting it all over, IMO. Regardless, I'm still interested in seeing something happen here. e85 is $1.00 cheaper a gallon compared to 94 octane but you break even as far as $ per mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criitter7 Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 i dont understand the making your car run cooler? explain please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 i dont understand the making your car run cooler? explain please Lower heat of vaporization? Could be wrong. I've been out of chemistry for a few years, and I rarely paid attention when I was in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Lower heat of vaporization? Could be wrong. I've been out of chemistry for a few years, and I rarely paid attention when I was in it. Close enough. Alcohol has a cooler burn. Take Model airplane fuel for example... not the same stuff but the effect is drastic enough for you no "feel" the difference. If you pourd a puddel of gasoline on the ground and lit it on fire, you wouldnt dare touch it because itll burn you right? Do the same thing with some alcohol/Nitromethane mix and even though its properties are more explosive, it burns cool to the touch... well, not cool, but if were to accidently get it on you and it lit, you could bare it for several seconds before any kind of redness and blistering would occure. Ethanol and Methanol also evaporate VERY quickly... getting it on your skin will provide a ice cold sensation. The rapid evaporation (being a cooling process, I.E. sweating) causes a reduction in temperature on the surface of your skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 e85 is $1.00 cheaper a gallon compared to 94 octane but you break even as far as $ per mile. And also about 10 whole octane points higher too. I got an average of 36mpg in my car to NC and back on 93 gasoline. As soon as I got back in town I switched back to E85. I'm hoping to get 25 - 28mpg. $3.94 / 36mpg = $0.10 / mile (E10) $3.01 / 25mpg = $0.12 / mile (E85) I can get 400+ miles on a tank of E10 and I drive about 170 miles per week. Assuming I only drive to work, I am spending ~ $3.40 extra a week on fuel by using E85 as opposed to E10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criitter7 Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Close enough. Alcohol has a cooler burn. Take Model airplane fuel for example... not the same stuff but the effect is drastic enough for you no "feel" the difference. If you pourd a puddel of gasoline on the ground and lit it on fire, you wouldnt dare touch it because itll burn you right? Do the same thing with some alcohol/Nitromethane mix and even though its properties are more explosive, it burns cool to the touch... well, not cool, but if were to accidently get it on you and it lit, you could bare it for several seconds before any kind of redness and blistering would occure. Ethanol and Methanol also evaporate VERY quickly... getting it on your skin will provide a ice cold sensation. The rapid evaporation (being a cooling process, I.E. sweating) causes a reduction in temperature on the surface of your skin. still wont do a damn thing on underhood temps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 still wont do a damn thing on underhood temps http://cdn.myxertones.com/tn/c/311334/big/?t=20080228144220 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff88coupe Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 I run E85 in my coupe (10.8:1 347)..had it tuned earlier this summer by Ron and Don Lasota. I could careless about the mpg loss from running it. I run it since it's 105 octane. I now don't have to find 110+ race gas to mix in with pump 93 when I run nitrous. If you have a engine combo (boost/nitrous/compression) that need or can take advantage (ie run more timing) of higher octane fuel...then it makes sense to run it to me. My combo picked up 10rwhp by just switching from pump 93 to e85...didn't even add any more timing vs my pump gas tune. Check out http://www.e85performance.net/forums/index.php and http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php for more E85 tech info. Lot's of guys out there running it now making 1K+HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 I had a very similar question about alcohol based fuels when I started learning about them; Here's my take on their effect on operating temperature... The latent heat of vaporization (Lv) of regular ethyl alcohol is quite a bit higher than gasoline. (~840 vs ~350 kJ/kg). E85 is roughly 770 kJ/kg? The amount of fuel being used also has an effect. Keep in mind, the units are energy per unit, in our case, heat energy removed per kilogram of fuel... aka, air fuel ratio... Knowing the AFR, which is lower with E85, you can speculate an even larger potential of kJ per kg of air. You could say that latent heat vaporization and it's relation to AFR is Lv/AFR. Now, the reduction of temp in the air charge is then determined from the specific heat of air (~1 kJ/kg-C). So in general, DeltaT = Lv/(specific_heat*AFR). I Think Heywood cites 80% or more of the injected fuel mass evaporates during the intake stroke, and the remainder during the compression stroke. So with the initial cylinder temps being that much lower, temps throughout the rest of the cycle will also be lower by about that amount. Hope this shines some light... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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