AIG

[HotCarl]

Will someone please explain to me, in laymen's terms, what the fuck happened?

 

And why the goverment now owns a 80% share in a private corporation? Yes i understand they put up 85 BILLION to bail them out but doesnt this go against everything a free market... hell a democracy should stand for. Not having the government bail out and take possession of private firms using tax payer dollars?

 

EDIT: I tried editing my title so it read AIG, not Aig but of course you cant edit a title after its already posted.

[rch10007]

They said the company is so big that if it went under the world would come to a fucking stop and we'd all fly off. I've been looking into retro-fitting my truck with afterburners.

[fast91stang]

They have something like 100,000 employees and operate all over the world.

[Draco-REX]

Every time the government has to bail out a company, those responsible for bringing it to that point should be put in stocks in the center of D.C. for the public to do with as they please since it's the public's money that bailed their asses out.

[rch10007]

They have something like 100,000 employees and operate all over the world.

 

 

Before I could buy into the idea that they are too big to loose, I'd like to know how them going under would affect me.

[HotCarl]

They have something like 100,000 employees and operate all over the world.

 

Yeah I understand that but there are hundreds of corporation's all over the nation that are even bigger that wouldnt neccessarily get 85billion dollars from the government if they fucked up.

 

I Understand that its a bailout. The Fed decided that it was worth the money to save this company rather than have them go under and further fuck up the economy. If this company goes under than it will have a ripple effect. I get that, but who decided it would be ok for the Government to control the private sector IN ANY WAY?!? Aren't there laws against this? is this even constitutional?

[Orion]

do you guys understand that the federal reserve is NOT a government agency? look up "federal reserve bank". thatll get you thinking.

[Kevin R.]

AIG has so much insurance in so many areas they insured as a AAA rated credit company that it would fuck the whole economy more than you ever can imagine if they were to go under....

 

They have said that they did not even know that this problem was THIS big until it happened and they they obviously cannot read their "books" correctly as they fucked themselves.

 

Now, because of this, we will have even MORE regulation in the private sector so this problem does not happen again.

 

This totally fucked the market today though and probably will have ripple effects for a long while now (but now as big as if they were to go under).

 

My $0.02

[Kevin R.]

do you guys understand that the federal reserve is NOT a government agency? look up "federal reserve bank". thatll get you thinking.

 

Exactly.

[rch10007]

do you guys understand that the federal reserve is NOT a government agency? look up "federal reserve bank". thatll get you thinking.

 

Well, if the URL: http://www.federalreserve.gov/ doesn't give it away...

 

...maybe reading this will: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

[Kevin R.]

Yeah I understand that but there are hundreds of corporation's all over the nation that are even bigger that wouldnt neccessarily get 85billion dollars from the government if they fucked up.

 

I Understand that its a bailout. The Fed decided that it was worth the money to save this company rather than have them go under and further fuck up the economy. If this company goes under than it will have a ripple effect. I get that, but who decided it would be ok for the Government to control the private sector IN ANY WAY?!? Aren't there laws against this? is this even constitutional?

 

In my opinion you just contradicted yourself in a sense.

 

You say who is it for the government to control the private sector but wouldn't you say they need more control so this doesn't happen again? OR would you rather the whole economy go under because of this and have no control?

 

There has to be a balance.

[HotCarl]

do you guys understand that the federal reserve is NOT a government agency? look up "federal reserve bank". thatll get you thinking.

 

Honestly, no i didnt know that. I understand that the Fed was started by JP Morgan and a host of other wall street types a decade ago but my assumption was that if they had access to tax payer money (and a shit ton of it at that) that they had to be some sort of governement agency.

[rch10007]

I had to correct a URL above to: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

[HotCarl]

In my opinion you just contradicted yourself in a sense.

 

You say who is it for the government to control the private sector but wouldn't you say they need more control so this doesn't happen again? OR would you rather the whole economy go under because of this and have no control?

 

There has to be a balance.

 

Oh I know i contradicted myself. But Im not approving what they did im simply asking how could they and why? Yes they're trying to save the economy but with each "save" they make they're taking a bigger and bigger share of the private sector. How does this help anyone? Like you said in a previous post, its a step closer to central planning. This is all under the assumption that the Fed is a government agency of some sort.

[Guest tbutera2112]

they are a government agency with a large private sector

[Guest tbutera2112]

The Federal Reserve is the central bank of the United States. Its unique structure includes

 

* a federal government agency, the Board of Governors, in Washington, D.C., and

* 12 regional Reserve Banks.

 

 

 

 

the 12 regional banks are private, the rest is the gooberment

[Orion]

here, did some research for you.

 

The Federal Reserve System is an independent government institution that has private aspects. The System is not a private organization and does not operate for the purpose of making a profit. The stocks of the regional federal reserve banks are owned by the banks operating within that region and which are part of the system.[26] The System derives its authority and public purpose from the Federal Reserve Act passed by Congress in 1913. As an independent institution, the Federal Reserve has the authority to act on its own without prior approval from Congress or the President.[27] The members of its Board of Governors are appointed for long, staggered terms, limiting the influence of day-to-day political considerations.[28] The Federal Reserve System's unique structure also provides internal checks and balances, ensuring that its decisions and operations are not dominated by any one part of the system. It also generates revenue independently without need for Congressional funding. Congressional oversight and statutes, which can alter the Fed's responsibilities and control, allow the government to keep the Federal Reserve System in check. Since the System was designed to be independent whilst also remaining within the government of the United States, it is often said to be "independent within the government."[27]

 

The 12 Federal Reserve banks provide the financial means to operate the Federal Reserve. Each reserve bank is organized much like a private corporation so that it can provide the necessary revenue to cover operational expenses and implement the demands of the board. Member banks are privately owned banks that must buy a certain amount of stock in the Reserve Bank within its region to be a member of the Federal Reserve System. This stock "may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan" and all member banks receive a 6% annual dividend.[27] These member banks must maintain fractional reserves either as vault cash or on account at its Reserve Bank; member banks earn no interest on either of these. The dividends paid by the Federal Reserve Banks to member banks are considered partial compensation for the lack of interest paid on the required reserves. All profit after expenses is returned to the U.S. Treasury or contributed to the surplus capital of the Federal Reserve Banks (and since shares in ownership of the Federal Reserve Banks are redeemable only at par, the nominal "owners" do not benefit from this surplus capital); the Federal Reserve system contributed over $29 billion to the Treasury in 2006.

 

so, its regulated by the gov (what isnt, really?) but it isnt the government.

[Guest tbutera2112]

here, did some research for you.

 

The Federal Reserve System is an independent government institution that has private aspects. The System is not a private organization and does not operate for the purpose of making a profit. The stocks of the regional federal reserve banks are owned by the banks operating within that region and which are part of the system.[26] The System derives its authority and public purpose from the Federal Reserve Act passed by Congress in 1913. As an independent institution, the Federal Reserve has the authority to act on its own without prior approval from Congress or the President.[27] The members of its Board of Governors are appointed for long, staggered terms, limiting the influence of day-to-day political considerations.[28] The Federal Reserve System's unique structure also provides internal checks and balances, ensuring that its decisions and operations are not dominated by any one part of the system. It also generates revenue independently without need for Congressional funding. Congressional oversight and statutes, which can alter the Fed's responsibilities and control, allow the government to keep the Federal Reserve System in check. Since the System was designed to be independent whilst also remaining within the government of the United States, it is often said to be "independent within the government."[27]

 

The 12 Federal Reserve banks provide the financial means to operate the Federal Reserve. Each reserve bank is organized much like a private corporation so that it can provide the necessary revenue to cover operational expenses and implement the demands of the board. Member banks are privately owned banks that must buy a certain amount of stock in the Reserve Bank within its region to be a member of the Federal Reserve System.This stock "may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan" and all member banks receive a 6% annual dividend.[27] These member banks must maintain fractional reserves either as vault cash or on account at its Reserve Bank; member banks earn no interest on either of these. The dividends paid by the Federal Reserve Banks to member banks are considered partial compensation for the lack of interest paid on the required reserves. All profit after expenses is returned to the U.S. Treasury or contributed to the surplus capital of the Federal Reserve Banks (and since shares in ownership of the Federal Reserve Banks are redeemable only at par, the nominal "owners" do not benefit from this surplus capital); the Federal Reserve system contributed over $29 billion to the Treasury in 2006.

 

so, its regulated by the gov (what isnt, really?) but it isnt the government.

 

[Guest tbutera2112]

you cant say that because it has private aspects that it isnt the government.... the agency and the board of governors isnt privately owned

[rch10007]

Being "independent within the government" is still gooberment. A camshaft isn't the motor, but it's still part of the motor.

[Archie]

You know why the "government" is bailing out private banks/banking cartels? It is because the government is run by private banks...

[Kevin R.]

Being "independent within the government" is still gooberment. A camshaft isn't the motor, but it's still part of the motor.

 

I don't think Orion is arguing the name or the founding intent; he is saying the way it is and the way it has come to be.

 

You have to overlook the text and see the way the Fed and the economy is working TODAY.

 

That is the way I took it.

[Orion]

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution states that Congress shall have the power to coin (create) money and regulate the value thereof. Today however, the FED, which is a privately owned company, controls and profits by printing money through the Treasury, and regulating its value.

 

The FED began with approximately 300 people or banks that became owners (stockholders purchasing stock at $100 per share - the stock is not publicly traded) in the Federal Reserve Banking System. They make up an international banking cartel of wealth beyond comparison (Reference 1, 14). The FED banking system collects billions of dollars (Reference 8, 17) in interest annually and distributes the profits to its shareholders. The Congress illegally gave the FED the right to print money (through the Treasury) at no interest to the FED. The FED creates money from nothing, and loans it back to us through banks, and charges interest on our currency. The FED also buys Government debt with money printed on a printing press and charges U.S. taxpayers interest. Many Congressmen and Presidents say this is fraud (Reference 1,2,3,5,17).

 

Who actually owns the Federal Reserve Central Banks? The ownership of the 12 Central banks, a very well kept secret, has been revealed:

 

Rothschild Bank of London Warburg Bank of Hamburg Rothschild Bank of Berlin Lehman Brothers of New York Lazard Brothers of Paris Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy Goldman, Sachs of New York Warburg Bank of Amsterdam Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Reference 14, P. 13, Reference 12, P. 152)

 

These bankers are connected to London Banking Houses which ultimately control the FED. When England lost the Revolutionary War with America (our forefathers were fighting their own government), they planned to control us by controlling our banking system, the printing of our money, and our debt (Reference 4, 22).

 

The individuals listed below owned banks which in turn owned shares in the FED. The banks listed below have significant control over the New York FED District, which controls the other 11 FED Districts. These banks also are partly foreign owned and control the New York FED District Bank. (Reference 22)

 

First National Bank of New York James Stillman National City Bank, New York Mary W. Harnman

 

National Bank of Commerce, New York A.D. Jiullard

 

Hanover National Bank, New York Jacob Schiff

 

Chase National Bank, New York Thomas F. Ryan Paul Warburg William Rockefeller Levi P. Morton M.T. Pyne George F. Baker Percy Pyne Mrs. G.F. St. George J.W. Sterling Katherine St. George H.P. Davidson J.P. Morgan (Equitable Life/Mutual Life) Edith Brevour T. Baker (Reference 4 for above, Reference 22 has details, P. 92, 93, 96, 179)

 

How did it happen? After previous attempts to push the Federal Reserve Act through Congress, a group of bankers funded and staffed Woodrow Wilson's campaign for President. He had committed to sign this act. In 1913, a Senator, Nelson Aldrich, maternal grandfather to the Rockefellers, pushed the Federal Reserve Act through Congress just before Christmas when much of Congress was on vacation (Reference 3, 4, 5). When elected, Wilson passed the FED. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied (referring to the FED), "I have unwittingly ruined my country" (Reference 17, P. 31).

 

Now the banks financially back sympathetic candidates. Not surprisingly, most of these candidates are elected (Reference 1, P. 208-210, Reference 12, P. 235, Reference 14, P. 36). The bankers employ members of the Congress on weekends (nickname T club -out Thursday...-in Tuesday) with lucrative salaries (Reference 1, P. 209). Additionally, the FED started buying up the media in the 1930's and now owns or significantly influences most of it Reference 3, 10, 11, P. 145).

 

Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest (Reference 4). Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free (Reference 12, P. 265). Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest. The FED's books are not open to the public. Congress has yet to audit it.

 

Congressman Wright Patman was Chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Banking and Currency for 40 years. For 20 of those years, he introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913.

 

Congressman Henry Gonzales, Chairman of a banking committee, introduces legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913 nearly every year. It's always defeated, the media remains silent, and the public never learns the truth. The same bankers who own the FED control the media and give huge political contributions to sympathetic members of Congress (Reference 12, P. 155-163, Reference 22, P. 158, 159, 166).

 

 

part of my senior paper research.

[Orion]

 

lol. yeah man, its definitely cloudy. im not a conspiracy theorist, but i highlighted an made bold the sections that were the important ones. ive got a whole bunch of info on this, as it was the subject of one of my senior papers.

 

the other was on how we were safer from nuclear attack during the cold war than now.

[iwishiwascool]

The bailout was not simply handing over cash to the failing company. It is a guaranteed loan at more than 11%. The fed actually stands to gain from the deal even if it has to break up the company in smaller pieces after a default.

 

I don’t think it should have ever gotten to this point but not taking this action would have caused such a disruption in the money market funds that ordinary people would not trust investment vehicles that were once considered inherently stable.