Please tell me...

[copperhead]

Presidents don't do much for change. Other than being able to declare war, they aren't able to directly effect much of anything.

 

Congress declares war, not the pres

[Draco-REX]

To sum this up. You don't think he will do a thing for you and your county.

Nope. But you wanted a reason to vote for him and not McCain. The only thing that differentiates them is that one is backed by the Republican Party which has been the incumbent party, and the other is backed by the Democratic party. If you don't like where you're at, do something different.

 

"Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

[HAOLE]

Nope. But you wanted a reason to vote for him and not McCain. The only thing that differentiates them is that one is backed by the Republican Party which has been the incumbent party, and the other is backed by the Democratic party. If you don't like where you're at, do something different.

 

"Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

That is what I am asking about. I hear everyone talk about change with Obama. I cant see that he is going to change any of the fundamental problems that we face in the economy, Governmental structure, foreign policy etc.

[slow4now]

How can anyone look at the two candidates' views and voting records and declare that there is absolutely no difference? Ugh.

[AngryBMW]

How can anyone look at the two candidates' views and voting records and declare that there is absolutely no difference? Ugh.

 

Hippie.

-Marc

[Scotty2Hotty]

How can anyone look at the two candidates' views and voting records and declare that there is absolutely no difference? Ugh.

Smoke and mirrors? But I'm just another mid-westerner clinging to his Bible and guns.

[slow4now]

The threadstarter is either being incredibly lazy by expecting everyone else to do the work for him, being incredibly ignorant by deciding to ignore the differences between the two candidates, or trolling.

 

What's funny is that it sounds like he has made up his mind to vote for McCain without apparently knowing anything about the opposition. Brilliant! That leads me to believe that something other than views or policies has led to his decision. Interesting...

[Scotty2Hotty]

The threadstarter is either being incredibly lazy by expecting everyone else to do the work for him, being incredibly ignorant by deciding to ignore the differences between the two candidates, or trolling.

 

What's funny is that it sounds like he has made up his mind to vote for McCain without apparently knowing anything about the opposition. Brilliant! That leads me to believe that something other than views or policies has led to his decision. Interesting...

No, he was asking as to why everyone has flocked to Obama. I wanted to know personally why people are voting for Obama. It was more of an opinion based Q&A, not for cold hard facts. Those do help bring a good case though.

[copperhead]

The threadstarter is either being incredibly lazy by expecting everyone else to do the work for him, being incredibly ignorant by deciding to ignore the differences between the two candidates, or trolling.

 

He's trying to prove a point, which I guess could be construed as trolling.

[2highpsi]

Nope. But you wanted a reason to vote for him and not McCain. The only thing that differentiates them is that one is backed by the Republican Party which has been the incumbent party, and the other is backed by the Democratic party. If you don't like where you're at, do something different.

 

"Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

 

I can't believe that people believe this shit.

 

The Democrats want to talk ENDLESSLY about change. All I hear is how we need to change. According to the Democrats it is the Republicans and their "deregulation" that has put us in the economic mess we are in. For some reason the deregulation that Clinton started was okay though???

 

And if I hear another "Palin is too stupid" by someone who thinks Biden is a genius I am going to puke. Face it, Biden thought that there were TVs during The Great Depression and Roosevelt was president. He also INCORRECTLY described the job of the vice president and didn't know which Article of the Constitution even talked about it. If Palin had done the same thing she would have been ridiculed to no end. I guess it was okay for Biden though??

 

To answer Rick's question : The only thing you will receive for voting for Obama is a rude awakening of how bad things CAN be, if that clown actually gets in office.

[Draco-REX]

That is what I am asking about. I hear everyone talk about change with Obama. I cant see that he is going to change any of the fundamental problems that we face in the economy, Governmental structure, foreign policy etc.

HE won't change shit. It's the "changing of the diapers" that may help.

 

Both candidates were chosen to run BECAUSE they won't stir the pot. Anyone who's looking to make big changes will never get nominated for a few reasons:

 

1. It's too risky. Strong opinions and big changes scare people. Obama's "change" is a subtle and "safe" one that doesn't scare people.

 

2. To really make a change, the person would have to abandon party lines and think independantly. Too much is invested in "Us vs Them" to allow someone like this to run. (Not to mention the joe-sixpack morons out there wouldn't know how to vote if the candidate didn't wasn't red or blue.)

 

3. Smart people in Politics get SHOT.

 

As long as we only have people chosen from this two-party system, NOTHING will fundamentally change. There will never be peace, prosperity, and good will. No matter who is elected, the underlying status quo will remain the same. All we can do is try to nudge things enough to get slight improvements.

 

So ultimately, it doesn't matter what individual gets into office, but really who backs them. The republicans have had the last 8 years and things aren't looking too well. Lets change the diapers and maybe, just maybe, things will improve a little.

 

You have no idea how distasteful I find it to vote AGAINST someone rather than FOR someone. But I will have to this election and it's pissing me off.

[Draco-REX]

I can't believe that people believe this shit.

Who says I believe anything? They're all lying sacks of shit with more interest in maintaining the status quo than actually changing things for the better. I'm just saying that it's better to change the water in the aquarium now and then.

[thorne]

Thats bull shit he's trying to prove not a god damn thing he's just trying to start shit. Just like when I single him out for jesus threads. I posted why I would vote for obama and because it included hating mccain it was invalid I did state a few things

[HAOLE]

I just wanted to take this time to thank the Obama supporters for proving the point of this thread.

 

Thank you

[2highpsi]

Who says I believe anything? They're all lying sacks of shit with more interest in maintaining the status quo than actually changing things for the better. I'm just saying that it's better to change the water in the aquarium now and then.

 

You're first post made it sound like you believed he would change things for the better.

 

After reading your second post I see you are just voting for "the guy running against McCain" rather than actually supporting Obama.

[Draco-REX]

I just wanted to take this time to thank the Obama supporters for proving the point of this thread.

 

Thank you

*shrug* Like voting for McCain is a thoughtful and productive thing to do. If you didn't want to debate, then just make a post and be done with it. So what you're REALLY saying here is that we should vote for McCain because he's NOT Obama....

 

Wow..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2141/2396010804_c3c9c95079_o.jpg

[Draco-REX]

You're first post made it sound like you believed he would change things for the better.

 

After reading your second post I see you are just voting for "the guy running against McCain" rather than actually supporting Obama.

Correct. 99% of politicians are interchageable.

[GonneVille]

Here we go again.

 

Obama's agenda for healthcare may not be ideal, but I believe it is far better than McCain's rather random non-committal maunderings.

 

Obama wants to WITHDRAW from Iraq, and I believe at this point that is the only course left to us. McCain wants to continue Bush's policies, which have failed. Yes, violence is down since the surge, but we cannot create a stable government in Iraq. Better to withdraw now and let the inevitable civil war play out. Iraq may have been hostile under Saddam, but at least it was stable, and able to keep Iran at bay on its own. We are looking at an indefinite draw on our military resources that could be better used elsewhere.

 

Obama wants to do away with the Bush taxcuts. Those taxcuts are a major factor in the growing deficit. Introducing major cuts in taxes at a time when we were prosecuting an expensive war was irresponsible and inexcusable. And yet McCain wants to make them permanent, while we are STILL hemorhaging money into Iraq.

 

Beyond that, neither side has made their views on less prominent issues clear. But Obama, to me, appears to be rational, logical, and clear-headed.

McCain, on the other hand, has a history of emotional problems, erratic and irresponsible behavior, infidelity(possibly abuse), and bad judgment.

 

Electing Obama may be a bit of a risk, yes, but McCain is certain doom.

[HAOLE]

*shrug* Like voting for McCain is a thoughtful and productive thing to do. If you didn't want to debate, then just make a post and be done with it. So what you're REALLY saying here is that we should vote for McCain because he's NOT Obama....

 

Wow..

I Did not say I was voting for McCain. Re Read the whole thread and you will notice I dont like McCain either. The thread is about Obama, not McCain

[HAOLE]

Here we go again.

 

Obama's agenda for healthcare may not be ideal, but I believe it is far better than McCain's rather random non-committal maunderings.

 

Obama wants to WITHDRAW from Iraq, and I believe at this point that is the only course left to us. McCain wants to continue Bush's policies, which have failed. Yes, violence is down since the surge, but we cannot create a stable government in Iraq. Better to withdraw now and let the inevitable civil war play out. Iraq may have been hostile under Saddam, but at least it was stable, and able to keep Iran at bay on its own. We are looking at an indefinite draw on our military resources that could be better used elsewhere.

 

Obama wants to do away with the Bush taxcuts. Those taxcuts are a major factor in the growing deficit. Introducing major cuts in taxes at a time when we were prosecuting an expensive war was irresponsible and inexcusable. And yet McCain wants to make them permanent, while we are STILL hemorhaging money into Iraq.

 

Beyond that, neither side has made their views on less prominent issues clear. But Obama, to me, appears to be rational, logical, and clear-headed.

McCain, on the other hand, has a history of emotional problems, erratic and irresponsible behavior, infidelity(possibly abuse), and bad judgment.

 

Electing Obama may be a bit of a risk, yes, but McCain is certain doom.

 

To sum up this post. Vote for Obama because McCain is bad.

 

 

What I am trying to figure out is why he is being treated like a Messiah, when he is offering nothing different?

[Draco-REX]

I Did not say I was voting for McCain. Re Read the whole thread and you will notice I dont like McCain either. The thread is about Obama, not McCain

Out of curiosity, who are you voting for then?

 

What I am trying to figure out is why he is being treated like a Messiah, when he is offering nothing different?

 

What he's offering is "Not-Republican". That's it. It's a bad reason, I know, but THAT'S the "change" everyone's really voting for, whether they admit to it or not.

 

The thing is, there's even LESS reason to vote for McCain. Unless you really LIKE how things are.....

 

Frankly, I don't see this whole "messiah" thing you're talking about; other than the usual pre-election hype. Every Democrat has been touted as the next best thing since Jesus, and every Republican has been sold as the greatest thing for our country since the Declaration of Independance. Next verse, same as the first.

[GonneVille]

To sum up this post. Vote for Obama because McCain is bad.

 

 

What I am trying to figure out is why he is being treated like a Messiah, when he is offering nothing different?

I'm not treating him as a Messiah, and I think those who are, are a little irrational. Quite frankly, if I had the power to choose the next POTUS myself, Obama wouldn't be in consideration. But after 8 years of Bush, and McCain promising four more years of the same, Obama looks to some like the last chance we have to break a horrific downward spiral.

[ForeverMaker]

since you chose to ignore the first reply to this thread which holds the answers you seek I will post this part on education. My fiance is a teacher. This is one of the many issues I agree on:

 

The Problem

 

No Child Left Behind Left the Money Behind: The goal of the law was the right one, but unfulfilled funding promises, inadequate implementation by the Education Department and shortcomings in the design of the law itself have limited its effectiveness and undercut its support. As a result, the law has failed to provide high-quality teachers in every classroom and failed to adequately support and pay those teachers.

 

Teacher Retention is a Problem: Thirty percent of new teachers leave within their first five years in the profession.

 

Soaring College Costs: College costs have grown nearly 40 percent in the past five years. The average graduate leaves college with over $19,000 in debt. And between 2001 and 2010, 2 million academically qualified students will not go to college because they cannot afford it. Finally, our complicated maze of tax credits and applications leaves too many students unaware of financial aid available to them.

 

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan

 

Early Childhood Education

 

 

• Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state "zero to five" efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
  
• Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding and improve quality for both.
  
• Affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also provide affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.K-12
   
  
  • Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama and Biden will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama and Biden will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
    
  • Support High-Quality Schools and Close Low-Performing Charter Schools: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the Federal Charter School Program to support the creation of more successful charter schools. An Obama-Biden administration will provide this expanded charter school funding only to states that improve accountability for charter schools, allow for interventions in struggling charter schools and have a clear process for closing down chronically underperforming charter schools. An Obama-Biden administration will also prioritize supporting states that help the most successful charter schools to expand to serve more students.
    
  • Make Math and Science Education a National Priority: Obama and Biden will recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession and will support efforts to help these teachers learn from professionals in the field. They will also work to ensure that all children have access to a strong science curriculum at all grade levels.
    
  • Address the Dropout Crisis: Obama and Biden will address the dropout crisis by passing his legislation to provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school - strategies such as personal academic plans, teaching teams, parent involvement, mentoring, intensive reading and math instruction, and extended learning time.
    
  • Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama and Biden will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve one million more children.
    
  • Support College Outreach Programs: Obama and Biden support outreach programs like GEAR UP, TRIO and Upward Bound to encourage more young people from low-income families to consider and prepare for college.
    
  • Support College Credit Initiatives: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will create a national "Make College A Reality" initiative that has a bold goal to increase students taking AP or college-level classes nationwide 50 percent by 2016, and will build on Obama's bipartisan proposal in the U.S. Senate to provide grants for students seeking college level credit at community colleges if their school does not provide those resources.
    
  • Support English Language Learners: Obama and Biden support transitional bilingual education and will help Limited English Proficient students get ahead by holding schools accountable for making sure these students complete school.
    

  Recruit, Prepare, Retain, and Reward America's Teachers

   

  • Recruit Teachers: Obama and Biden will create new Teacher Service Scholarships that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.
    
  • Prepare Teachers: Obama and Biden will require all schools of education to be accredited. Obama and Biden will also create a voluntary national performance assessment so we can be sure that every new educator is trained and ready to walk into the classroom and start teaching effectively. Obama and Biden will also create Teacher Residency Programs that will supply 30,000 exceptionally well-prepared recruits to high-need schools.
    
  • Retain Teachers: To support our teachers, the Obama-Biden plan will expand mentoring programs that pair experienced teachers with new recruits. They will also provide incentives to give teachers paid common planning time so they can collaborate to share best practices.
    
  • Reward Teachers: Obama and Biden will promote new and innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. Districts will be able to design programs that reward accomplished educators who serve as a mentor to new teachers with a salary increase. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well.
    

  Higher Education

   

  • Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.
    
  • Simplify the Application Process for Financial Aid: Obama and Biden will streamline the financial aid process by eliminating the current federal financial aid application and enabling families to apply simply by checking a box on their tax form, authorizing their tax information to be used, and eliminating the need for a separate application.
    

  Barack Obama's Record

   

  Record of Advocacy: Obama has been a leader on educational issues throughout his career. In the Illinois State Senate, Obama was a leader on early childhood education, helping create the state's Early Learning Council. In the U.S. Senate, Obama has been a leader in working to make college more affordable. His very first bill sought to increase the maximum Pell Grant award to $5,100. As a member of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committee, Obama helped pass legislation to achieve that goal in the recent improvements to the Higher Education Act. Obama has also introduced legislation to create Teacher Residency Programs and to increase federal support for summer learning opportunities.

   

[Scotty2Hotty]

Obama wants to WITHDRAW from Iraq, and I believe at this point that is the only course left to us. McCain wants to continue Bush's policies, which have failed. Yes, violence is down since the surge, but we cannot create a stable government in Iraq. Better to withdraw now and let the inevitable civil war play out. Iraq may have been hostile under Saddam, but at least it was stable, and able to keep Iran at bay on its own. We are looking at an indefinite draw on our military resources that could be better used elsewhere.

 

You know nothing of Iraq other than what you see on CNN. You fail at making a point.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Soaring College Costs: College costs have grown nearly 40 percent in the past five years. The average graduate leaves college with over $19,000 in debt. And between 2001 and 2010, 2 million academically qualified students will not go to college because they cannot afford it. Finally, our complicated maze of tax credits and applications leaves too many students unaware of financial aid available to them.

 

To be honest, there are plenty of ways to pay for college, I don't see that being a prority for the US Government to change. Get a job, join the military, get a grant etc....