Obama Health Care question...

[Conesmasher]

I have coverage that cost me about 175/mo for a family of four. We have a $2500 deductible per person. I calculate how much we spend on health care per year vs. the cost of going with a $500 deductible. I save thousands per year. The secret is if you have a low deductible, you are going to pay for it.

 

For example. $500 deductible plan cost about 1000/mo for a family of four. That is 12k per year. I have a $2500 per person dectuctible plan. I pay $175/month, that is $2100/year. That saves me 10k per year in premiums. My wife,my kids and I have never used 10K in health care in 17 years. Seems like a high deductible plan works for me.

 

The plan that we have now I have paid into for the last 6 years. That is about 60k in savings over that period of time.

 

Agreed. I'd rather save my money than pay it to an insurance company. My wife and I both carry $5000 deductibles. Her employer provides $4800 of that deductible, mine provides $1000 that can accumulate if not used. On top of that I am saving $150/month for "just in case" medical expenses.

 

I work for the insurance company, I know that 9 times out of 10, they win. You pay more than they pay.

[TTQ B4U]

HSA vs just a high deductible regular plan is different. In your case, your deductible is likely just for major surgeries, broken legs, etc....in the case of an HSA you pay 100% of everything....full price on Doctor visits, prescriptions, etc....of course you get their discounted rate, but a visit to our Doctor is a simply $20 co-pay vs the $100 office visit.

 

HSA plans you pay the 100% up to their specified amount then they cover the rest. No thanks. It could pay off if you know you're going to have surgery or difficult births or something, but for the average guy like me with just simple office visits, it would cost me up front $4k plus the premium each month.

 

One job I was at their HSA was I paid $ 300mo premuim and the first $2,000. The next year the premium stayed $300 but the out of pocket for me would have been $4,000...but the employer was so generious to fund the first $1,000.

 

My last job offered one too, but it still was too high and risky...I would have had to pay the first $5,000 but the premium was only $150mo....but still....to cough up the first $5,000...no thanks.

 

 

I have coverage that cost me about 175/mo for a family of four. We have a $2500 deductible per person. I calculate how much we spend on health care per year vs. the cost of going with a $500 deductible. I save thousands per year. The secret is if you have a low deductible, you are going to pay for it.

 

For example. $500 deductible plan cost about 1000/mo for a family of four. That is 12k per year. I have a $2500 per person dectuctible plan. I pay $175/month, that is $2100/year. That saves me 10k per year in premiums. My wife,my kids and I have never used 10K in health care in 17 years. Seems like a high deductible plan works for me.

 

The plan that we have now I have paid into for the last 6 years. That is about 60k in savings over that period of time.

[Conesmasher]

HSA vs just a high deductible regular plan is different. In your case, your deductible is likely just for major surgeries, broken legs, etc....in the case of an HSA you pay 100% of everything....full price on Doctor visits, prescriptions, etc....of course you get their discounted rate, but a visit to our Doctor is a simply $20 co-pay vs the $100 office visit.

 

HSA plans you pay the 100% up to their specified amount then they cover the rest. No thanks. It could pay off if you know you're going to have surgery or difficult births or something, but for the average guy like me with just simple office visits, it would cost me up front $4k plus the premium each month.

 

One job I was at their HSA was I paid $ 300mo premuim and the first $2,000. The next year the premium stayed $300 but the out of pocket for me would have been $4,000...but the employer was so generious to fund the first $1,000.

 

My last job offered one too, but it still was too high and risky...I would have had to pay the first $5,000 but the premium was only $150mo....but still....to cough up the first $5,000...no thanks.

 

Honestly it really depends on your "coverage.

 

I have $2500 annual deductible, $5000 out of pocket annual limit. All of my preventative doctor visits are 100% paid for up to $1000 per year. I wish I had an HSA available because all of my money that I save for my medical expenses would not be taxed, but it's not offered for me.

 

The HSA is just a special type of savings account for those who have higher deductible plans.

 

 

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/pdf/all-about-HSAs_072208.pdf

 

Sounds like a lot of your issues are employer related and not HSA related. But for those who do visit the doctor more than average, I understand choosing the higher plan. But some folks go for what is visually simple, but not financially smart.

[TTQ B4U]

yes/no....but to get this thread back on track as it pertains to Obama and healthare.....High Deductables are not what folks who are likely supporting Obama are going to support nor are they what's best for them. Not unless they are among the crowd that can afford to pay for the coverage and claims on their own before full coverage kicks in.

 

Again, even 4 years ago when I was on an HD Plan with an HSA account, very few of my average coworkers had the $2k-$4k to fund the HSA. The average worker in the $40-$60k income range found it near impossible to cough up the funding....but hey, at least Bush is allowing them to transfer their IRA money Sure...give up a chunk of their retirement money for their health care. That's a nice way to put off doing the right thing...but then, it was Bush.

 

Again, toss in two kids, 2-3 visits per year just for them, and then said drugs associated....especially common things like Epi Pens...which are very expensive...and your $1k is gone in a heartbeat.

 

Honestly it really depends on your "coverage.

 

I have $2500 annual deductible, $5000 out of pocket annual limit. All of my preventative doctor visits are 100% paid for up to $1000 per year. I wish I had an HSA available because all of my money that I save for my medical expenses would not be taxed, but it's not offered for me.

 

The HSA is just a special type of savings account for those who have higher deductible plans.

 

 

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/pdf/all-about-HSAs_072208.pdf

 

Sounds like a lot of your issues are employer related and not HSA related. But for those who do visit the doctor more than average, I understand choosing the higher plan. But some folks go for what is visually simple, but not financially smart.

[kirks5oh]

if the government plan does not reimburse physicians enough, than many physicians will not accept the shitty gov't plan. there's no law that says i have to perform an elective procedure on a patient with bullshit insurance. the only physicians who will see you will be the quacks.

 

i'd be amazed if any form of universal health care ever comes to pass. the insurance companies are too powerful, and physicians (i hope) will not tolerate continued decreases in reimbursement.

[RedRocket1647545505]

if the government plan does not reimburse physicians enough, than many physicians will not accept the shitty gov't plan. there's no law that says i have to perform an elective procedure on a patient with bullshit insurance. the only physicians who will see you will be the quacks.

 

i'd be amazed if any form of universal health care ever comes to pass. the insurance companies are too powerful, and physicians (i hope) will not tolerate continued decreases in reimbursement.

 

I sure hope you're right.

 

Any idea how a universal health care plan would affect the nursing field?

[Conesmasher]

yes/no....but to get this thread back on track as it pertains to Obama and healthare.....High Deductables are not what folks who are likely supporting Obama are going to support nor are they what's best for them. Not unless they are among the crowd that can afford to pay for the coverage and claims on their own before full coverage kicks in.

 

Again, even 4 years ago when I was on an HD Plan with an HSA account, very few of my average coworkers had the $2k-$4k to fund the HSA. The average worker in the $40-$60k income range found it near impossible to cough up the funding....but hey, at least Bush is allowing them to transfer their IRA money Sure...give up a chunk of their retirement money for their health care. That's a nice way to put off doing the right thing...but then, it was Bush.

 

Again, toss in two kids, 2-3 visits per year just for them, and then said drugs associated....especially common things like Epi Pens...which are very expensive...and your $1k is gone in a heartbeat.

 

It just seems somewhat ironic that folks have no problem, paying $300/month to the insurance company, but for some reason can't save $300/ month on their own. At least Bush is helping people use their money how they see fit.

[TTQ B4U]

May be ironic, but most folks can't save at all period. Besides, the $300 they are normally paying as a premium is taken out before they get the money. Given most HD Plans still have some type of premium, by the time folks get the money, they have it spent already.

 

It just seems somewhat ironic that folks have no problem, paying $300/month to the insurance company, but for some reason can't save $300/ month on their own. At least Bush is helping people use their money how they see fit.

[Conesmasher]

May be ironic, but most folks can't save at all period. Besides, the $300 they are normally paying as a premium is taken out before they get the money. Given most HD Plans still have some type of premium, by the time folks get the money, they have it spent already.

 

I honestly refuse to believe that they "can't save"......I do believe that they CHOOSE not to save.

 

In light of this financial crisis and a majority of the people I know. People are living a pipe dream. If I couldn't afford to save 20% of my monthly income, I'd move to somewhere I could. It's sad that people don't think far in advance. I know that some honestly fall on hard luck, but too many fall onto stupidity and expect sympathy.

[Conesmasher]

What it comes down to if you can't afford it, you don't deserve it.

[TTQ B4U]

In light of this financial crisis and a majority of the people I know. People are living a pipe dream.

 

True...and I've posted similar here even just recently. However, the facts are that many just plain can't. Again, I see a large number of all types of cases since my wife's law practice revolves around domestic law and bankruptcy. Sad to say that while there are a number of pure dumb people making bad choices, the reality is many more % wise are just plain in a bad situation they can't easily fix.

 

I honestly refuse to believe that they "can't save"......I do believe that they CHOOSE not to save.

 

Again, I agree...but up to a point. It's not easy to raise kids on the income lots of folks have. Not everyone has dual incomes like we are blessed with or make nearly as much. I am amazed every day my wife comes home telling me of families earning maybe $60k yr and raising 2-4 kids. It can be done, but there's no way I could do it.

 

 

If I couldn't afford to save 20% of my monthly income, I'd move to somewhere I could.

 

Much easier said than done. Especially easier if you don't have a family.

 

It's sad that people don't think far in advance. I know that some honestly fall on hard luck, but too many fall onto stupidity and expect sympathy.

 

Agree.

[SpaceGhost]

No thanks. HSA's are not worth it unless you're single and young. I'm 38 and have two kids. No way I want to be responsible for every penny of the first $4k-6k on top of the monthly premium. They've offered it at my previous employers and very few enrolled. Besides, IMO, they don't help the average person who can't afford to fund the HSA Account up front. More and more employers are funding the accounts less.

 

Damn your HSA sucks,

 

CSCC:

 

United Health care premium (pre Tax) $160 a month

 

I deposit $250 a month (pre Tax) into my HSA 4000K out of pocket Deductible. ($5300 cap that you can deposit into the account per year)

 

CSCC Deposits 2k a year to my HSA or $166 am Month

 

My HSA gets $5K deposited each year, (untill I stop depositing due to a surplus) More on that later. Also the balance rolls over every year, I lose no money!

 

I Pay $4920 a year for a family of 3. I would pay the same for a family of 20.

 

Keep in mind that $5000 of that $6920 Total (paid by me and CSCC) that 5K is mine not the insurance companies.

 

I can use that money to buy over the counter medicine and all kinds of things too, (Money I never paid Tax on.)

 

If I leave my job that money comes with me, it's not pissed away to the insurance company. Or if the account gets large I can with Withdraw the money for whatever I want outside of medical costs, I just have to pay taxes on it at the end of the year.

 

All my childs Wellness visits and shots are 100% covered along with my wife's checkups and mine, I pay nothing, not even a copay. Nothing comes out of my HSA for this either. Insurance Company pays 100%.

 

If my daughter gets sick she sees her pediatrician, last visit was less than $100. She may get sick once a month at an extreme. She hasn't been sick for 3 months now. Also When we go to the doctor Our price for the visit is the United Health care negotiated price(We have a United Health Care Plan), and that is what comes out of our HSA. Not the full price of what the doctor WANTS to charge.

 

Funny if I save like this for 2 years and my account is at 5K or higher(which is spending 2-3k of it per year *extreme*), I cut off paying into the account and let my employer fund 2K into the HSA per year. I then pay $1920 a year for my health care premium only and if something bad happens that year I have the 4k out of pocket. and since my employer is paying 2K into it, I will still have 4K the next year. I may start depositing money again later, but for a year and a half or more I only spend $160 a month on Health care for a family of 3.

 

SInce June we have used less that $200 of our HSA, things are going well, at this rate in June of next year we may be able to be at the $160 per month level.

 

My HSA through United Health Care Rocks.

 

And The mis-conception about HSAs: That if something bad happens before you reach your 4k in your account and you use the 4k deductible in one trip to the hospital now you have to pay 4K on the spot is false. The $4K is not a loan, so as long as you pay a monthly installment of what you are depositing every month to the Hospital they can do nothing. Hell you could pay $5 a month for the rest of your life if you wanted to. All you have to do is make a payment monthly.

 

As a comparison my last plan a "low deductible" %100 coverage was $620 a month, thats Right $7200 a year and it was gone every year. Now I might pay $4920 for the first year but could be paying less than 2k a year in coming years.

[HAOLE]

Damn your HSA sucks,

 

CSCC:

 

United Health care premium (pre Tax) $160 a month

 

I deposit $250 (pre Tax) into my HSA 4000K out of pocket Deductible. ($5300 cap that you can deposit into the account per year)

 

CSCC Deposits 2k a year to my HSA or $166 am Month

 

My HSA gets $5K deposited each year, (untill I stop depositing due to a surplus) More on that later. Also the balance rolls over every year, I lose no money!

 

I Pay $6920 a year for a family of 3. I would pay the same for a family of 20.

 

Keep in mind that $5000 of that $6920 money is mine not the insurance companies.

 

I can use that money to buy over the counter medicine and all kinds of things too, (Money I never paid Tax on.)

 

If I leave my job that money comes with me, it's not pissed away to the insurance company. Or if the account gets large I can with Withdraw the money for whatever I want outside of medical costs, I just have to pay taxes on it at the end of the year.

 

All my childs Wellness visits and shots are 100% covered along with my wife's checkups and mine, I pay nothing, not even a copay. Nothing comes out of my HSA for this either. Insurance Company pays 100%.

 

If my daughter gets sick she sees her pediatrician, last visit was less than $100. She may get sick once a month at an extreme. She hasn't been sick for 3 months now. Also When we go to the doctor Our price for the visit is the United Health care negotiated price(We have a United Health Care Plan), and that is what comes out of our HSA. Not the full price of what the doctor WANTS to charge.

 

Funny if I save like this for 2 years and my account is at 5K or higher(which is spending 2-3k of it per year *extreme*), I cut off paying into the account and let my employer fund 2K into the HSA per year. I then pay $1920 a year for my health care premium only and if something bad happens that year I have the 4k out of pocket. and since my employer is paying 2K into it, I will still have 4K the next year. I may start depositing money again later, but for a year and a half or more I only spend $160 a month on Health care for a family of 3.

 

SInce June we have used less that $200 of our HSA, things are going well, at this rate in June of next year we may be able to be at the $160 per month level.

 

My HSA through United Health Care Rocks.

 

And The mis-conception about HSAs: That if something bad happens before you reach your 4k in your account and you use the 4k deductible in one trip to the hospital now you have to pay 4K on the spot is false. The $4K is not a loan, so as long as you pay a monthly installment of what you are depositing every month to the Hospital they can do nothing. Hell you could pay $5 a month for the rest of your life if you wanted to. All you have to do is make a payment monthly.

UHC is one of the worst paying insurers... true story.

 

The Knox Community Hospital up here has even dropped UHC. Dont get hurt or sick in Knox county with UHC. I dont think we have any providers up here. I dropped them years ago. I might as well give the person a $20 and tell them to go some where else, it would have been cheaper for me.

[HAOLE]

if the government plan does not reimburse physicians enough, than many physicians will not accept the shitty gov't plan. there's no law that says i have to perform an elective procedure on a patient with bullshit insurance. the only physicians who will see you will be the quacks.

 

i'd be amazed if any form of universal health care ever comes to pass. the insurance companies are too powerful, and physicians (i hope) will not tolerate continued decreases in reimbursement.

I have dropped all government plans except medicare. I will not participate with any company that pays me less than I want. Fortunately, I can, and do turn people away that have sub par payers.

 

If government health care comes along you will see Doctors unions come about. I will not stand for government health care plans. Doctors don't make nearly what they did in the 1980's.

 

I think it is funny how people think health care is a right. I get tire of people saying " I cant afford health care. I think it is more of a priority problem than anything. I hate when some come to my office and complains that they have no money to pay for care, but they have a brand new car, a 4 wheeler, and a gun collection. They have plenty of money for that, but no to take care of them self. I would venture to say most on this board spend more on their cars than they do for health care, but they complain health care is too much money, all the while they are saving up for the new turbo upgrade.

[SpaceGhost]

I would never set foot in a Chiro's office to hand them money.

 

 

And since Knox Community is not a level 1 trauma ER and never will be, I would be transported to Riverside or Grant from Knox County if it were life threatening. Hell I went to grant from Delaware County when I laid the bike down. If I broke my leg some one could drive me to Columbus I would not need a squad. Shit if I get hurt in Knox county, the last place I would set foot in is A Hospital there or anywhere near your office.

[HAOLE]

I would never set foot in a Chiro's office to hand them money.

Good, one less idiot to deal with.

 

And since Knox Community is not a level 1 trauma ER and never will be, I would be transported to Riverside or Grant from Knox County if it were life threatening. Hell I went to grant from Delaware County when I laid the bike down. If I broke my leg some one could drive me to Columbus I would not need a squad. Shit if I get hurt in Knox county, the last place I would set foot in is A Hospital there or anywhere near your office.

I am not sure who you brown nosed to become a mod, it was obviously not for you intelect.

 

Get back on the topic of health care and stop the personal attacks.

[SpaceGhost]

Whaaaa Whaaaa Sniff Sniff

 

You have never personally attacked me?

[HAOLE]

Whaaaa Whaaaa Sniff Sniff

 

You have never personally attacked me?

Only after being attacked by you. Look back in the threads, I am not the one who starts crap. You sir 100% of the time have started attacks on me, I just defend.

 

I would assume a person who should be a mod, should be a little more mature than you are.

 

Now lets get back to health care and insurance and you go take a midol.

[SpaceGhost]

I would think a professional such as yourself as being such a highly regarded Chiro would be more mature and ignore it. But hey. It is what it is.

 

Funny when you get butthurt you point out that I'm a "mod" and I cannot do what you do daily.

 

Psst. I'll tell you a secret, I'm a mod to help Anthony with the all the mundane tasks of sponsorship of the site. See the Red Letterers to the left.

 

I tell you what, you put up the $60 a year to sponsor this place and I will not bother you.

[HAOLE]

I would think a professional such as yourself as being such a highly regarded Chiro would be more mature. But hey. It is what it is.

 

Funny when you get butthurt you point out that I'm a "mod" and I cannot do what you do daily.

Ummm.... go back and look at your post a few back, I did not start anything. I was commenting on insurance. Who is being immature? Look into your mirror for your answer.

 

The point is you have a chip on your shoulder, I guess it because you hate Christians and Chiropractors.

[SpaceGhost]

Ummm.... go back and look at your post a few back, I did not start anything. I was commenting on insurance. Who is being immature? Look into your mirror for your answer.

 

The point is you have a chip on your shoulder, I guess it because you hate Christians and Chiropractors.

 

Would that make me CH-asist?

[HAOLE]

Would that make me CH-asist?

nope, just a hater

[SpaceGhost]

I'm not the one who calls African Americans "Spades", that's you.

[HAOLE]

I'm not the one who calls African Americans "Spades", that's you.

no sir... that is a general expression! Dont accuse me of saying some racist crap. If anyone thought that is what a meant please accept my apology.

[MrMeanGreen]

Ok, take the pissing match to PMs.