RangerTurbo Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 LJ --> Here Cred, I'll do the leg work for you. Suzanna Hupps Wiki Page which is actually pretty good. Despite how much I hate using wiki for reference material. Hupps story of events Now, listen to that and answer your own accusations. 1) Why do you think she would want this? Her parents and the 21 victims that day aren't acceptable losses. 2) Does she look like a "fucking hillbilly" to you? She was a former House member in Texas. 3) How would "growing a pair" helped anyone in that situation? 4) "give them what they want and no one gets hurt". And what should they all have given, other than their lives? 5) "They shoot first, and then take what they want." So you're comfortable with the fact you want to take away everyones chance of equal response? 6) "I was born and raised in the city with the highest crime rate in the WORLD." And yet you still fail to back this up when called on it. Making "macho" comments doesn't make you macho. 7) "In a bar, the best thing that can come from someone carrying a gun, is to prevent multiple killings, which is good, but honestly, how often does that happen?" You get this, and yet you still fail at being intelligent about it. It shouldn't have to happen once. The "once every now and then" is not an acceptable loss. Rather than trying to determine if someone is licensed to carry or not it is just easier to say they are not allowed in bars. Right, so disarm everyone including the good law abiding. Because, you know, the law breaker would listen to that law and no one would ever carry in a bar, right? To be clear I hate over regulation. To be clear, you only mean if it effects you. Otherwise you don't care how regulated something is. That statement goes with the "I'm in full support of the 2nd Amendment, but...... As long as the parts being regulated don't effect you, you ultimately don't care in the end. I just look at it like this Austin, if people are allowed carrying in a bar something sometime is going to happen, and it will make the gun grabbers right. The only problem is, the stories and theories the gun grabbers cry will happen, don't. They haven't been right about any of their accusations about what will happen when anything progun/procarry comes up. To me it isn't worth being able to carry in a bar. Is saving your own life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 People don't kill people, guns kill people. "But a monkey can also kill people, if it had a gun" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 What's the point in your argument? You haven't brought out any research or information, just opinion. What proof do you have that this is a bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Ranger. You just dont get what I'm saying at all. You act as if I'm completely against people being able to carry, that's not the case at all. But a lot of people, and it appears to me that you fall in that category, simply want to carry a gun for the fact of carrying a gun, and to show of fucking baddass you are. You're aggressive way of trying to prove your point, only makes me feel even stronger about how I feel. You are coming off as the person at the bar that wants to prove he is so damn right, and automatically becomes aggressive, and you haven't even been drinking, AND you also have a gun on your hip. The bottom line is, when people go to BARS, and im not talking about restaurant that serves booze, I'm talking about an establishment that's sole purpose is to serve alcohol, people go there to drink. You cant possible sit here and tell me that after even just a few drinks, you don't have to be shitfaced wasted, that your judgment is impaired. Therefor, I don't want anyone like that even being close to a weapon. You're Hupps example is pro 2nd amendment, which I agree with, but doesnt prove anything here really. Also, if it really matters to you that much, a simple Google search for highest crime rate in the world would have given you Johannesburg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 What's the point in your argument? You haven't brought out any research or information, just opinion. What proof do you have that this is a bad idea? Ugh, that drinking and having a firearm on you is a great fucking idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 The bottom line is, when people go to BARS, and im not talking about restaurant that serves booze, I'm talking about an establishment that's sole purpose is to serve alcohol, people go there to drink. You cant possible sit here and tell me that after even just a few drinks, you don't have to be shitfaced wasted, that your judgment is impaired. Therefor, I don't want anyone like that even being close to a weapon. We've already had people say they have gone to bars plenty and not had a drink. I am one of them, I have been to bars and not even had a sip. Why should we not have the right to carry? A responsible person with CCW would not draw unless it was absolutely necessary. This is the same between being in a park and being in a bar. Ugh, that drinking and having a firearm on you is a great fucking idea. Why do you automatically assume that the people who carry will drink? That makes no sense. What is your base for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Also, if it really matters to you that much, a simple Google search for highest crime rate in the world would have given you Johannesburg. No. http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f277/punkhott712/page.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 We've already had people say they have gone to bars plenty and not had a drink. I am one of them, I have been to bars and not even had a sip. Why should we not have the right to carry? A responsible person with CCW would not draw unless it was absolutely necessary. This is the same between being in a park and being in a bar. Why do you automatically assume that the people who carry will drink? That makes no sense. What is your base for that? I've also already said that people who go to bars and dont drink are the exception and not the rule. I also said that if you went to the bar, just sat there and didnt drink at all that I would have no problem with it, but how do you control, regulate or measure that? Do they let under age kids go into bars? But what if they say "oh its ok, im not going to drink"? Will they let them in then? No they wont. Same concept. "A responsible person with CCW would not draw unless it was absolutely necessary" Correct, but now hes been drinking and isnt thinking with a clear mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 No. lol, maybe I should have said yahoo. http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3632/65106533.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I've also already said that people who go to bars and dont drink are the exception and not the rule. I also said that if you went to the bar, just sat there and didnt drink at all that I would have no problem with it, but how do you control, regulate or measure that? Do they let under age kids go into bars? But what if they say "oh its ok, im not going to drink"? Will they let them in then? No they wont. Same concept. "A responsible person with CCW would not draw unless it was absolutely necessary" Correct, but now hes been drinking and isnt thinking with a clear mind. I already called you out and you ignored me. If your concern is valid, show me the proof. With 78% of the states in the union allowing bar carry, there should be plenty of evidence to back up your claim. Until you present evidence, you are spitting rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I've also already said that people who go to bars and dont drink are the exception and not the rule. I also said that if you went to the bar, just sat there and didnt drink at all that I would have no problem with it, but how do you control, regulate or measure that? Do they let under age kids go into bars? But what if they say "oh its ok, im not going to drink"? Will they let them in then? No they wont. Same concept. "A responsible person with CCW would not draw unless it was absolutely necessary" Correct, but now hes been drinking and isnt thinking with a clear mind. How do they control, regulate, enforce concealed carry at all? I could carry into a bar tonight and no one would have a clue. The only thing the law would do it make it so I don't get punished if I have to reveal that I am carrying due to extreme circumstances. Stop assuming they'll drink. Why are they not carrying and drinking right now? It's against the law. Why are they not carrying into bars now (as far as we know)? It's against the law. Why would they choose to break the law simply because it would become legal to carry into a bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 How do they control, regulate, enforce concealed carry at all? I could carry into a bar tonight and no one would have a clue. The only thing the law would do it make it so I don't get punished if I have to reveal that I am carrying due to extreme circumstances. Stop assuming they'll drink. Why are they not carrying and drinking right now? It's against the law. Why are they not carrying into bars now (as far as we know)? It's against the law. Why would they choose to break the law simply because it would become legal to carry into a bar? shhhhhh Let him answer my question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 lol, maybe I should have said yahoo. Still don't see your city . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Ranger. You just dont get what I'm saying at all. Because you bring nothing but unfounded opinion, projection, and hyperbole to the conversation. Argue facts, not what Sarah Brady tells you. You act as if I'm completely against people being able to carry, that's not the case at all. But a lot of people, and it appears to me that you fall in that category, simply want to carry a gun for the fact of carrying a gun, and to show of fucking baddass you are. No, I act as if you don't want anyone to carry in a bar out of fear and fear alone. I carry a gun. I conceal it most of the time now. I'm not sure how concealing shows just how bad ass I am? Maybe people can just look at me and tell? I mean I know I'm pretty kick ass, but bad ass? I'm not sure. You're aggressive way of trying to prove your point, only makes me feel even stronger about how I feel. You start off hostile and beligerant. Get called on it. Tuck your tail, and now are whining that someone is opposing your opinion without sucking your dick to appease you at the same time? This aint preschool, "grow a pair". You are coming off as the person at the bar that wants to prove he is so damn right, and automatically becomes aggressive, and you haven't even been drinking, AND you also have a gun on your hip.And you're coming off as the person who walks in, makes asinine comments to a conversation, and fails to follow up or backup anything he says or is called on. Also, I haven't been to a bar since I started carrying. Utah bars suck, the beer is of poor quality here, and I'd rather drink home brew and watch TV. You cant possible sit here and tell me that after even just a few drinks, you don't have to be shitfaced wasted, that your judgment is impaired. Therefor, I don't want anyone like that even being close to a weapon. Nope, I can say that a few beers doesn't make me want to get shit faced wasted. However, you did just confirm, in a round-a-bout way, that this is your mentality. Which shows a poor lack of control. Which backups up my statement earlier that you lack the self control to drink, therefore lack the self control to carry a gun and be responsible. Ultimately, this underlines the fact that since you don't have the control, you feel no one does. The more you type in here, the more your exposing your self. You're Hupps example is pro 2nd amendment, which I agree with, but doesnt prove anything here really. It proves EVERYTHING you've claimed to be false. Also, if it really matters to you that much, a simple Google search for highest crime rate in the world would have given you Johannesburg. It does matter that much. You made a claim to help enforce your opinion, but didn't substantiate that with any information. Just like the rest of your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 its too fucking easy to get a handgun and a CCW. I am a gun lover, but bottom line is i dont trust many people that have their CCW. People make stupid decisons, all Cred is trying to say is he would like to see those reduced. Cred05 - Are you Rudy's brother? used to have a red VR4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Still don't see your city . pssshhhtt...johannesburg is in south africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Cred05 - Are you Rudy's brother? used to have a red VR4? I am, I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Cred05- Stop avoiding my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 its too fucking easy to get a handgun and a CCW Which makes you think more about your statement if you analyze it? a) You're implying that excersizing your (our) 2nd Amendment Right is too easy. or b) It's too easy to receive a CCW; an infringement on a Right not to be infringed upon. Cred05- Stop avoiding my question. He's avoiding them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Because you bring nothing but unfounded opinion, projection, and hyperbole to the conversation. Argue facts, not what Sarah Brady tells you. No, I act as if you don't want anyone to carry in a bar out of fear and fear alone. I carry a gun. I conceal it most of the time now. I'm not sure how concealing shows just how bad ass I am? Maybe people can just look at me and tell? I mean I know I'm pretty kick ass, but bad ass? I'm not sure. You start off hostile and beligerant. Get called on it. Tuck your tail, and now are whining that someone is opposing your opinion without sucking your dick to appease you at the same time? This aint preschool, "grow a pair". And you're coming off as the person who walks in, makes asinine comments to a conversation, and fails to follow up or backup anything he says or is called on. Also, I haven't been to a bar since I started carrying. Utah bars suck, the beer is of poor quality here, and I'd rather drink home brew and watch TV. Nope, I can say that a few beers doesn't make me want to get shit faced wasted. However, you did just confirm, in a round-a-bout way, that this is your mentality. Which shows a poor lack of control. Which backups up my statement earlier that you lack the self control to drink, therefore lack the self control to carry a gun and be responsible. Ultimately, this underlines the fact that since you don't have the control, you feel no one does. The more you type in here, the more your exposing your self. It proves EVERYTHING you've claimed to be false. It does matter that much. You made a claim to help enforce your opinion, but didn't substantiate that with any information. Just like the rest of your argument. I dont know who Sarah Brady is But I'm assuming shes an anti-gun person. Which I am not. The funny thing too is that I don't disagree with what you're saying, because your proving why someone should be allowed to carry. The problems comes in when you are trying to convince me that I'm wrong about not wanting guns in an environment where people are drinking, to which you have not proven shit. Its been nothing but personal insults, for which you can go eat a dick, and pro 2nd amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I am, I did. Ha i was talking to him 2 nights ago....heard this audi of yours gets busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I dont know who Sarah Brady is But I'm assuming shes an anti-gun person. Which I am not. The funny thing too is that I don't disagree with what you're saying, because your proving why someone should be allowed to carry. The problems comes in when you are trying to convince me that I'm wrong about not wanting guns in an environment where people are drinking, to which you have not proven shit. Its been nothing but personal insults, for which you can go eat a dick, and pro 2nd amendment. Actually you are spewing baseless rhetoric. I'll ask your ass one more fucking time. If 78% of the states in the Union allow bar carry, there should be PLENTY of EVIDENCE to back up your CLAIMS. Until you provide this evidence, you are just being a douchebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Which makes you think more about your statement if you analyze it? a) You're implying that excersizing your (our) 2nd Amendment Right is too easy. or b) It's too easy to receive a CCW; an infringement on a Right not to be infringed upon. He's avoiding them all. I do believe in my 2nd amendment BUT there needs to be stricter laws on obtaining firearms. Im sorry, but plenty on shootings occur with legally bought guns. I honestly think there needs to be a psychiatric evaluation in order to buy a gun. Nowadays with so many people on prescription meds and shit. Im not trying to say i have the answers for all your questions. If i changed my fundamental thinking on this situation than maybe i would have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I dont know who Sarah Brady is But I'm assuming shes an anti-gun person. Which I am not. The funny thing too is that I don't disagree with what you're saying, because your proving why someone should be allowed to carry. The problems comes in when you are trying to convince me that I'm wrong about not wanting guns in an environment where people are drinking, to which you have not proven shit. Its been nothing but personal insults, for which you can go eat a dick, and pro 2nd amendment. LOL, oh boy. I haven't proven shit because there aren't statistics to show how many times an OC or CC have stopped a crime from happening. Crime statistics are real, anti-crime statistics don't exist. No one calls to report that a "would be robber came into the bar, but left when he saw my carry weapon". Reports filed where CC or OC stop the crime from being committed are still filed as a crime report, not an anti-crime report. You haven't shown one shred of evidence for your claims. How would you like me to show you all the ways crimes have been stopped due to carrying? I do believe in my 2nd amendment BUT... I've already covered the type of person who uses this type of reasoning. It's like I'm psychic and knew someone would say that EXACT line. Or maybe it's just typical closet anti gun speek? Which you backed up earlier by saying you like guns, but not other people with them. (I am a gun lover, but bottom line is i dont trust many people that have their CCW) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Actually you are spewing baseless rhetoric. I'll ask your ass one more fucking time. If 78% of the states in the Union allow bar carry, there should be PLENTY of EVIDENCE to back up your CLAIMS. Until you provide this evidence, you are just being a douchebag. I dont think the laws have been out long enough for an issue to come up. Like someone said earlier, once it does, then the ban will be put back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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