Mr. Butera

[Clifford Automotive]

From the sounds of it, its just a coupe. I didnt ask. But its getting the engine pulled and everythings going black.

[Guest Removed]

there are certain spot's to watch on those...unless its a really clean on already.

 

but lord knows what you'll find under what paint is on it

[Clifford Automotive]

Well, they are bringing it to me in sealer, ready for paint. So who knows whats been done to the car or what kind of condition its in.

[Jizzle Juice]

Thanks, and you'll get your car back still shifting when Im done with it. Because we dont have these problems with GM's

That's a plus

you think...his trans is busted already....

 

and ask craig how many times he has pieced his back together

 

And that's what your trans guy is for I gotta get it to him for a quote them blame!!! Fix tranny

 

Then off to kevins and Blame! Fixxed door!!

[Guest tbutera2112]

since you wanna bring this out and make something of it, i was NOT happy when i got a call from Rob after he visited your shop.

 

the reason i said what i said in that PM is because rob told me he saw you abusing the car and also noted that there were tire marks inside the shop, right in front of my wheels. he said it looked like the car was put in reverse and just had the clutch dumped in order to move it backwards

 

i have never in my life heard of anyone who dropped their car off at a body shop driving, and had to pick it up with a towtruck

 

then i get it to robs and theres shotty work done on the fenders, sure you offered to fix it but it shoulda just been done to begin with

 

the "fixed" spot on the door, isnt fixed...the dent you were gonna pop is still there, you just fixed the scratch

 

my car was covered in clear coat overspray and looked like shit, a couple members helped me clean it off with a razer blade one night, and im still going to have to pay somebody to fix the roof on it because it will need wet sanded or something to get the clear off....i PMd you about the clear and you kept denying it saying it wasnt anything you did....but it was so bad it had to be cleared if i wanted to drive anywhere, and youre the last person who drove it, theres no way it was like that before....then i make the other more recent thread and you owned up saying it probably happened because of where the car was sitting when you painted it

 

i was told that you were seen abusing my car, then i get the car back on a flatbed truck, with some messed up body work and clear coat overspray all over it

 

that PM/post you posted in this thread is OLD AS FUCK, and yes, i was heated when i got the car back and kept finding problem after problem.

 

i believe the mustang was dealt with unprofessionally, with mediocre body work and i was not happy with the situation at all

 

hence the post i made after you relocated to the new building

 

this stuff isnt anything new, half of CR has seen my car sitting at robs and asked me who fucked up the clearcoat....hell someone told me that cams car ended up looking the same way after it left your old place

 

i was going to buy parts from you to fix the saab myself, but you were cheap enough i thought ide give it another shot, and the saab looks great....i posted that other thread to clear the air sinvce a fair amount of people on CR are in the know about the mustang

 

youre not telling anyone anything new, not sure why this is even out in the open now, thought i had cleared it up before, but if you wanan get back into it we can..

 

you cant be mad at me for not being happy with the work that rolled outta your shop...

 

1. drove in, picked up on flatbed

2. clear coat over all my glass and roof, even my side mirrors

3. marks on BOTH fenders where shotty work had been done

4. dent in the door that was supposed to be fixed isnt

 

if you dropped your car off somewhere and you had people calling you telling you that they just saw the mechanic thrashing your car, then you get a call that the trans is fucked up, and then it compounds by some messed up body work and the body shop wont fully take responsibility for, yet later on owns up to, YOU would be pissed also kevin

[Guest tbutera2112]

and as for bad mouthing cam, here is the full context

 

the reason i said it was kinda gay was just because of the full cobra appearance deal...i dont get into the fobra look, especially on a car with a 2v in it, and i stand by that...it meant nothing against cam personally...not that it matters since he already dislikes me as it is

 

heres the original link for reference if anyone is wondering where this came from...i couldnt even remember but i remember posting that and then i saw it bumped on a stang forum here:

 

http://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l-general-discussion/576333-custom-color-mustangs.html

[Clifford Automotive]

In response.

 

The tire marks that were on the floor were from my Camaro. Not from anyone elses car. So having someone tell you it looked like I dumped a clutch to move a car means nothing. Your car drove perfectly in reverse. You asked me how I got the car outside, and I told you I simply drove it out in reverse.

 

I have never heard of that myself. Though I have heard of the Ford TSB about these transmissions having problems. For all you know, the transmission could have locked up at my frame shop, or when you were on your way home with it. Instead it happened when I was in the car.

 

I gave you fair warning ahead of time that using a half inch of body filler to fill holes in fenders can result in filler shrinkage.

 

I dont see a dent in the door thats in the picture.

 

 

With the pictures, please tell me how a car wrapped like that gets clear overspray on it. I did say in another thread that, when the car was primed it must have gotten some overspray on it. And that internal matter was resolved. Still though truthfully, I dont believe it came from my shop. It most likely came from my frame shop. Cleaning the car of overspray is resolved with a 50/50 mix of water and paint thinner. Not repainting it.

 

I wouldn't say a post on December 7th of 2009 is OLD AS FUCK. The other one, that was an add on, I didnt look at the date on it.

 

If you believe the Mustang was delt with unprofessionally, you should have made your case the day you inspected the car and picked it up. Telling someone it looks great and I didnt expect it to look like that!, then paying doesnt sound like dissatisfaction to me.

 

Cams car is sitting in my shop right now, and someone most have told you wrong. However I am getting ready to wetsand and buff it again, to give it a little deeper shine.

 

I appreciate the business, Im sure you appreciated keeping $500 in your pocket too! That comes out of my bottom end and I still pay taxes on the full amount.

 

I'm not trying to tell anyone anything new. And there is nothing to get into really. All Im asking you to do, is be clear on what you say. Everybody whos somebody, knows about T5's and there problems. Rob came to my shop to look at the car, after we told you what was wrong with it. And he too told you there was TSB on it.

 

I'm not mad about anything. I just hope your not mad at yourself, for not bringing issues up that you may have had the day you picked it up.

 

Your car was out of my hands for 1.5 weeks. I didnt thrash your car.

 

 

 

Picture for overspray reference. I even said that day on the phone with you, "I dont spray cars uncovered.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/pimpjettay2k/1999%20Ford%20Mustang/100_2775.jpg

 

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/pimpjettay2k/1999%20Ford%20Mustang/100_2776.jpg

[Clifford Automotive]

and as for bad mouthing cam, here is the full context

 

the reason i said it was kinda gay was just because of the full cobra appearance deal...i dont get into the fobra look, especially on a car with a 2v in it, and i stand by that...it meant nothing against cam personally...not that it matters since he already dislikes me as it is

 

heres the original link for reference if anyone is wondering where this came from...i couldnt even remember but i remember posting that and then i saw it bumped on a stang forum here:

 

http://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l-general-discussion/576333-custom-color-mustangs.html

 

 

We are not here to talk about Cam. He most dislike you for a certain some reason.

 

We got the original link on Page 1

[wagner]

In before, during, and after the lock.

 

WIN

 

Oh and first rule when picking up a car from a body shop is to look it over and address problems right then. When my Z28 was hit the shop I had do it tried to pull a fast one on me. That car did not leave their lot until it was up to my expectations for the repairs they did.

[Guest tbutera2112]

In response.

 

The tire marks that were on the floor were from my Camaro. Not from anyone elses car. So having someone tell you it looked like I dumped a clutch to move a car means nothing. Your car drove perfectly in reverse. You asked me how I got the car outside, and I told you I simply drove it out in reverse.

 

like i said, i was just going off of what i was told and when i saw it in person it was a damn good fit, lined up perfectly...whether or not you did it i have no idea, and whether or not that would even damage the car i also have no idea, just passing along what i was told

 

I have never heard of that myself. Though I have heard of the Ford TSB about these transmissions having problems. For all you know, the transmission could have locked up at my frame shop, or when you were on your way home with it. Instead it happened when I was in the car.

 

i guess the part that seemed suspicious to me was that it was stuck in reverse...i have seen plenty of these trans get stuck in 3rd and 5th, usually while being abused...ive never seen reverse, and after the tire marks and robs phone call it did sound oddly suspicious

 

I gave you fair warning ahead of time that using a half inch of body filler to fill holes in fenders can result in filler shrinkage.

 

if you did tell me this, then i either forgot or did not hear you when you said it...with my memory it is totally possible that you told me and i forgot

 

I dont see a dent in the door thats in the picture.

 

the dent was always hard to see anyways, especially from that angle...to be honest with you, i didnt even notice it until a couple months ago, if that...but its the same dent in the same spot...the paint does look better than my touch up paint that was on there though...ide get a pic for you but the car isnt in my possession at the moment, ill see if any of the pics i have after body work show it..although i never did a real "photoshoot" on it since it went right to robs

 

 

With the pictures, please tell me how a car wrapped like that gets clear overspray on it. I did say in another thread that, when the car was primed it must have gotten some overspray on it. And that internal matter was resolved. Still though truthfully, I dont believe it came from my shop. It most likely came from my frame shop. Cleaning the car of overspray is resolved with a 50/50 mix of water and paint thinner. Not repainting it.

 

i saw the pictures and i wondered also, its weird because everywhere you have taped, is where the clear is...nowhere else. ask anyone who has seen my car before we cleaned the clear off, theres no way it could be driven like that...whether it happened at your shop or the frame shop doesnt matter to me...it happened after i left my car with you

 

I wouldn't say a post on December 7th of 2009 is OLD AS FUCK. The other one, that was an add on, I didnt look at the date on it.

 

i actually thought that post was older since i didnt even click your links...i remembered typing it and i thought it was in a different thread, but i knew what forum...i didnt go look until after, hence me posting the link....either way, the trans got locked up while my car was in your shop...was it on its way out? most likely, but it is what it is...like i said, ive never heard of a car leaving a body shop with a broken transmission...that website is world wide, with thousands and thousands of members, i highly doubt anybody there has any clue where my car was worked on...hell theres like 2 or 3 members on the entire site that are members on this board, and they dont even login/post

 

If you believe the Mustang was delt with unprofessionally, you should have made your case the day you inspected the car and picked it up. Telling someone it looks great and I didnt expect it to look like that!, then paying doesnt sound like dissatisfaction to me.

 

compared to how i dropped the car off and the condition it was in from previous accidents before i owned it, the car looked great.... the day i picked it up you were in a hurry to get out the door, in fact i dont think i even came inside, my car was out in the lot waiting on the tow truck and you were there wiping it down briefly while you waited on me...then you left soon as i paid you...honestly, it was my fault for not looking over the details...i had never really had a car repaired before aside from something small, and i didnt bother to look at details...that was my fault, hence why i did not notice any problems...i did look at the fenders and they looked good, couldnt really see the spots until it was out in the sun, perhaps it shrank after the car had left, im not sure, and it doesnt matter much because, again, it is what it is

 

Cams car is sitting in my shop right now, and someone most have told you wrong. However I am getting ready to wetsand and buff it again, to give it a little deeper shine.

 

like i said...thats just what i was told...that the glass was cleared just like my car

 

I appreciate the business, Im sure you appreciated keeping $500 in your pocket too! That comes out of my bottom end and I still pay taxes on the full amount.

 

i appreciated the help getting it fixed up, and also all the extra work i had you do (hood repair, debaging, etc)...and overall most of the car looked great...i have no attention to detail, and didnt notice anything wrong in person...didnt notice the clear until we went to put a decal on the window (hadnt been in it to drive it, and once it got to robs it was covered in dust anyways so being inside it wasnt noticeable either), didnt notice the fenders until a very bright day and seeing them at the right angle, and didnt notice the door until i was reinstalling the fenders with jeff after the new engine was in the car....again, all my fault for not noticing right away

 

I'm not trying to tell anyone anything new. And there is nothing to get into really. All Im asking you to do, is be clear on what you say. Everybody whos somebody, knows about T5's and there problems. Rob came to my shop to look at the car, after we told you what was wrong with it. And he too told you there was TSB on it.

 

everybody whos somebody also knows my car doenst have a t5 ...but i get what you meant, and do realize it had a tsb as well, hence me not making a big deal to you about it and not posting it up in my positive consumer report thread, sure theres a few jokes made now and again, but half of cr drove my car and know the kind og abuse it had, so i wasnt exactly shocked...i see where youre coming from about how i worded the post on MF, but honestly, i didnt think too much into it...it got broke while in your possession, after someone calling me and telling me they saw you out beating on it...seemed like an odd coincidence thats all

 

I'm not mad about anything. I just hope your not mad at yourself, for not bringing issues up that you may have had the day you picked it up.

 

im not mad about anything at this point... im not mad at you because like i said, the trans was most likely on its way out anyways, and the clearcoat isnt really that big of a deal..me and O HAI cleaned it off with razer blades in about 5minutes...roof still needs done but im not worrying about it at this point....also while storing the fenders in my garage, one of them got scratched pretty deep, hence me not bothering to even bring them back to you....as for the day i picked it up, like i said before, i have no attention to detail and did not notice any problems....when i did notice things wrong, i sent you a PM and you were willing to work with me, which i do appreciate....im not mad at myself, but i have learned a lesson that next time i have a car repaired i need to really look at it before it leaves the shop, no matter what shop because shit does happen

 

 

..

[Guest tbutera2112]

as for pics...heres a before pic of the dent...like i said, its hard to see in pics, its something you have to see in person...hence why your pic isnt showing it either...all the current pics i have arent high res enough to see it, but if you would like i can try to make it over there and get one for you

 

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tbutera2112/my%20car/CIMG0790.jpg

 

 

and the overspray...this much overspray doesnt just appear outta nowhere..pic is taken after half of it has been cleaned up with a blade

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/SaleenSS90/0130102024.jpg

 

 

 

 

as far as satisfaction as a customer goes, im happy that you were willing to work with me on the issues i did have (all aside from the overspray), and the price was great, and the work on the saab looked fantastic... the reason i brought up the glass issue in the consumer report thread about the saab was to publically let everyone (that has been to robs and known about the glass issue) know that you had taken care of me and that this time around it looks great...didnt wanna appear to be one of those people who will talk shit behind your back but be afraid to say it to your face or who is afraid to admit they could have been wrong

 

i wouldnt hesitate to bring anything to you again after the work that was done on the saab...not gonna lie, i did rub my windshield before leaving your lot in it, just in case but overall i have no issues with you or your work, and like i also said before, perhaps your former employee had a hand in all of this since the work improved greatly after he was no longer with you

 

guess ill start my search for a new body guy though because we all know wrecking shit is a hobby of mine

[Guest tbutera2112]

We are not here to talk about Cam. He most dislike you for a certain some reason.

 

We got the original link on Page 1

 

i think he dislikes me becuase i upset his boyfriend jcroz...that or he thinks i sold him a junk motor, ive heard from a few people that he has talked some shit about it in regards to the motor i sold him...but hell i sold him the whole drivetrain for $700, not my fault he thrashed it...it never gave me any problems aside from a ticking lifter that kurt was made aware of before buying it.

[Archie]

Ask Kevin how many times he drove my car from Baltimore to Downtown and back on a stock tranny and I got the car back in one piece. Every time.

 

You're comparing GM to Ford... not fair

[Clifford Automotive]

Sound goods. I've said all I can in the above post.

 

I can see the dent in your picture. Dead Center of Door. And I can't see it in mine.

 

As for the fenders, I gave you the warning, and I also later told you I would take care of it. Its an easy fix. You have yet to bring the fenders. And when the time comes, I'll still take care of it.

 

Filler should never be more then a 1/4in, if it is it WILL shrink and show.

 

Just a bit of advice, dont go off of what you hear, go off of what you know.

[Guest tbutera2112]

Sound goods. I've said all I can in the above post.

 

 

this.

 

as for the door, like i said i dont have any recent pics since the car isnt here...it looks better because the paint is fixed there, but the dent is still there...doesnt show in your pic, or any of mine, but in person its there...ill get a pic for you sometime and PM it if u doubt im telling the truth...either way it doesnt matter to me at this point

 

as for going off of what i hear, i take everything with a grain of salt at this point, i listened to what rob had to say and when i saw the car in person i had my own doubts...if youre talking about cams car, then i wasnt saying you messed it up, just saying thats what i have been told

 

glad youre willing to fix it still, even after this and the last headbutting...thats a good businessman, and its much appreciated

 

like i said though, the fender got messed up anyways and at this point im not going to bother fixing it right now because im broke and i dont wanna get one part fixed and not the other

[Clifford Automotive]

If you say its there its there.

 

That is what I am. You and others are my business not the other way around. I dont butt heads with anyone. And this thread is no skin off my back. Just simply asking you to be clear on what you talk about.

[CAM09]

i think he dislikes me becuase i upset his boyfriend jcroz...that or he thinks i sold him a junk motor, ive heard from a few people that he has talked some shit about it in regards to the motor i sold him...but hell i sold him the whole drivetrain for $700, not my fault he thrashed it...it never gave me any problems aside from a ticking lifter that kurt was made aware of before buying it.

 

For starters I have my reasons, it had nothing to do with the motor I like the motor and drivetrain you sold me. Who ever told you that I was talking shit about the motor you sold me was telling you a lie, because I have never talked bad about the motor....I didnt trash the motor after you sold it to me or had any problems with it as far as internals only the overheating (which my dad and rob start assuming crap like I was beating on the motor and that I had blew and head gasket in the 1st place, rob ran the car hard a few times around the shop do to me having fuel problems at high RPM's and the v6 pump that was in it rob said was the same as the stock GT pumps, after we put yours in everything was fine and the car ran great) however the tick is not a problem I dont even notice it when I start the car so......

[Guest Removed]

yeah there's a tsb kevin...have you read it?

 

the title of it even states alot

TRANSMISSION - T-45 MANUAL TRANSMISSION -

STUCK IN REVERSE - DIFFICULT TO SHIFT INTO

REVERSE - POPS OUT OF REVERSE

 

there are three different shift forks for the t-45 as outlined below

ACTION

Verify which shift fork is in the transmission, measure the reverse engagement, and replace the shift fork with the proper part number. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details. SERVICE PROCEDURE

Please follow the procedure in the appropriate Mustang Workshop Manual, for the T45 transmission removal. Refer to the appropriate section in that Workshop Manual for the disassembly of the transmission. In this section, complete the steps up to and including the removal of the Fifth/Reverse Synchronizer Sleeve, the Fifth/Reverse Gear Shifter Fork and the Reverse Synchronizer sleeve. After this is complete, continue with the following steps.

http://alldatapro.com/alldata/PRO~V155468356~C32756~R0~OB0~P3R0H~N/0/70910848/78036459/78036478/78036481/34853741/34850750/42063452/121053381/89252284/89009232

1. While viewing the extension housing from the front, place a small amount of standard modeling clay on the reverse idler bracket (7723) near the 5th/reverse shift rail support. hole (near the exterior wall of the housing Figure 1). 2. Place a standard 9/16" hole diameter plain washer on the 5th/reverse shift rail and against the rear face of the 5th/reverse shift fork. The washer is placed behind the fork as installed on the rail. 3. Re-install the extension housing (7A039), offset lever (7F018), spring (7E172), ball (7234) and roll pin (35749-S15). Attach securely with only two (2) bolts. 4. Attach the shifter assembly (7A039) securely and (with the appropriate upper lever) make a high effort, quick shift into reverse. 5. Remove the extension assembly (7A039) as before and conduct the reverse engagement inspection. 6. Using an appropriate depth gage, carefully measure from the case mounting face of the extension housing to the face of the plain washer, which should be stuck in the modeling clay. Take three (3) readings and calculate the average. This is the measure of reverse engagement. 7. Using the following criteria, select the correct 5th/reverse fork. This fork should replace the current fork in the transmission. a. If the measurement is less than 68.1158 mm (2.682 inches), use the "long" fork (F8ZZ-7230-EA). b. If the measurement is greater than 69.233 mm (2.726 inches), use the "short" fork (F8ZZ-7230-DE). c. If the measurement falls between the above values, then install the "nominal" fork (F6ZZ-7230-C). 8. Remove and replace the current fork with the new fork, per the Workshop Manual procedure. 9. Clean the joint surfaces of the castings (main and extension housing) and shifter. 10. Re-assemble per Workshop Manual. 11. Verify repair

[CAM09]

Just a bit of advice, dont go off of what you hear, go off of what you know.

 

+1:woowoo:

[Clifford Automotive]

yeah there's a tsb kevin...have you read it?

 

 

Sure have! It's amazing they put that in the title isn't it?

[SinisterSS]

Thanks, and you'll get your car back still shifting when Im done with it. Because we dont have these problems with GM's

 

haha he already has a 2nd gear issue

[Guest Removed]

Sure have! It's amazing they put that in the title isn't it?

yeah it is, but these are bad about the pin's shearing off that hold the forks to the rods.

granted reverse was hard to engage on that pos, and that shifter was not the greatest, but still hard to believe that your camaro has that exact same tire on the back that tyler's did on his, and the small 4" marks i seen , right under his tires, lined up perfectly with his tires. cause the 15" 275's bfg's are not hard to mistake. and i have already clearly stated i watch you beat on his car right in front of me. Granted, every one beat on it. Just unfortunate it happened when/where it did. It was bound to happen regardless.And yet still, 3 mustang's came out of there with clear coat on the windows , all in the same time frame. But i can understand how that happened aswell, Any company can have issues with employees.

[Clifford Automotive]

haha he already has a 2nd gear issue

 

Imagine that...

 

granted reverse was hard to engage on that pos, and that shifter was not the greatest

 

Imagine that...

 

As for tires marks...they probably would line up perfectly because when I parked cars in that spot I park them right there in the same spot. Just like im my garage at home I have to reference points that I line up to when I pull in. One in front, one on the side.

 

In the 3 times you were at my shop, I never recall beating on his car.

 

Oh well.

[Guest Removed]

Imagine that...

 

 

 

Imagine that...

 

As for tires marks...they probably would line up perfectly because when I parked cars in that spot I park them right there in the same spot. Just like im my garage at home I have to reference points that I line up to when I pull in. One in front, one on the side.

 

In the 3 times you were at my shop, I never recall beating on his car.

 

Oh well.

 

edited and takin to PM's

Edited March 3, 2010 by Removed

[Guest tbutera2112]

my car didnt have reverse problems that were out of the normal for any t45, and the shifter was just fine...not my fault nobody knew how to use it...hell they didnt even fix this issue with the 3650, and ive never owned a t5 and dont troll 5.0 sites so idk if they had the issue or not

 

those trans dont have syncros for R (or so i was told, im not positive on that) and someone else said it even calls for it in the owners manual to put it into a forward gear before reverse, but i dont have a manual here to reference so im not sure on that either, so you cant just slam them in reverse....double clutching before reverse or putting it into a forward gear with the clutch in and then putting it into reverse were the best ways to shift into R without it grinding....not an uncommon issue in the slightest

 

http://mustangforums.com/forum/mach-1-section/485859-grinding-when-going-into-reverse.html

http://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l-1996-2004-modular-mustang/406318-shifting-trouble.html