Guest Spam Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Jeez. I hope not. Esp on a 60 trim. He could maybe do 1-2 lbs of boost before they are maxed. I hope he has at least triple that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Really? It doesn't take an input from an AEM UEGO WBO2 to compensate? It can log UEGO and with the FIC8, an RTD input - but cant use them (yet?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heratik Posted April 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Sooo are you still only running 260cc injectors? .... and whats the max these motors can hold on stock parts?.. The piston rings go at about 300whp after excessive boosting. 290cc injectors. I'm pretty sure with the extra 1-1.5 lbs of boost I recently added I am skating on 300, so the engine is probably a ticking timebomb at this point. Oh well, not like I haven't pulled it before...the next time will be a built bottom end though. Jeez. I hope not. Esp on a 60 trim. He could maybe do 1-2 lbs of boost before they are maxed. I hope he has at least triple that. What? That makes no sense...I have no problem pumping enough fuel with those injectors plus my Aeromotive 1:1 fpr. Really...my A/F ratio is not hurting under boost at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Read this. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/244522-injectors-fuel-pumps.html If you have a 1:1 fpr, you are raising your fuel pressure 1 psi for every 1 lb of boost. So, lets say your base idle fp is 40 psi, and your running 10 psi of boost. You are effectively running 50 psi through your injectors. Even though boost is not important as actual flow (ie. lb/min) i digress that looking at that chart, you can see that even 390cc injectors can only handle a maximum of 28 lbs/min. For your car, you have 260 injectors. Following that table, you get a rather linear graph with an equation of y=.0718x -.0181 with y equal to lb/min and x=injector size. So y in your case would be 18.5 lb/min at 100% IDC. You should be maxing your injectors around 5 psi around 4000 rpm from reading compressor maps of a 60-1. Unless youve changed your base idle fp, you shouldnt be running those injectors. Keep in mind that was for a 4 cylinder. Im not sure what you have. If you have a 6, multiply by 1.5 basically for everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heratik Posted April 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 My car is a 6. I am familiar with the purpose of a 1:1 fpr and I realize that injector size determines its max flow. I have not run the numbers honestly...I'm sure those calculations are correct. However, I based my 290cc injector purchase on several long-successful builds using the same car, same return-type fuel system, and the same exact turbo. See http://www.ngmhouseofpower.com for more info on the company that compiled the core system components, and the owner who I worked with to determine the proper size injectors. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, but I have had proven personal success as well as R&D backing for my injector choice. I may be close to maxing the injectors at this point (currently hitting about 6.5lbs boost), but I have no problem running as rich as needed. Maybe I'm missing something? I guess I just don't understand how there could be a max flow problem if I'm flowing more than enough according to my wideband and I don't see a cut-off at any RPM range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Thats about right then. I calculated for a 4 cylinder on 260cc injectors. So you are dead close to 100 idc. My last question and them ill stop bugging you, why did you chose such a large frame turbo? When are you hitting your 6.5 boost, at what rpm? Hopefully, you can purchase some larger injectors say from a turbo supra, and get some real power. Not sure if they work just a guess. Also, you can be on the tip of out flowing your injectors and still maintain your proper 11:1 AFR. How do you tune? Most tuning solutions include a way to read the IDC of your injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heratik Posted April 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Np, I've been doing this stuff for about 2-3 years now and have learned everything through research. I haven't touched any other cars, and I consider myself very new still because I haven't branched out beyond this platform. I'm just interested in understanding at this point rather than comparing dick size. Ok, this all comes together then...this would be why guys running 7-psi+ on the same basic components are upgrading to 390's. I'm up to 6psi by around 3600-3800. This particular compressor makes great power at low psi and has an incredibly smooth curve from the dynos I have seen. My dyno was "meh," but I had a boost leak when I did it last year. The spool time is MUCH better now that I have rerouted vac lines and cleaned up leaks, but I'm still not happy with it. I have heard time and time again that this compressor is just slightly too big, and I am considering that when it's time to upgrade. I'm fine with skating 100% duty for now as long as I can maintain A/F. Right now I'm using a simple fuel tuner called a MAFterburner, but as you see in the last couple posts, I'm upgrading this season to either the FIC or SMT6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 No idea what that is but im guessing its a piggyback or semi standalone? I guess that psi is somewhat ok. But for instance, dsms can spool a similar turbo on 4 cyl in around 42-4400 rpm to 20psi or more. Im guessing thats also a journal bearing turbo? Whats the AR on the turbine housing? Im glad i could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heratik Posted April 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Yes, piggyback. I know I'm pushing it at 6.5psi with no timing, but it gets the job for now. Yep, journal bearing & .70 A/R I ran for a short time with no intercooler @ 5psi (recirc bov) and that spooled virtually instantaneously at anything about 2700 or so on WOT. Granted, only 5psi, but it shows how much the piping crippled my spool time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Thats not normal. Thats an extremely large pressure drop. Must be a shitty core. If i were you, i would look to get a new setup with a smaller AR and smaller compressor to help spool faster or play with your timing more on this turbo once you get the piggyback. Hopefully youll have full control of the ecu and are able to maximize efficiency of this turbo. Before you get anything, look into bigger injectors. 400 minimum. Then turn up the fucking wick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Very nicely done. I must say that 290cc injectors sound pretty small. I would say you need around 390-450cc, but what the hell do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heratik Posted April 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I dunno...considering a possible couple hundred rpm total error on my part, and 2700 vs an assumed 3400-3500 for the same psi with all that plumbing added, it didn't seem that unusual to me, really. From my research, MasterPower is generally regarded as a great mid-level turbo, and the only problem I'm aware of there is the seals, which are being replaced now. If this sounds that off, I say take my numbers with a grain of salt since I haven't officially dyno'd since last year, and I'm quoting real-time eyeballed numbers. Let's hold out until I get her strapped back down to get a proper read. I'll post up my dyno sheet when I get everything operational and stop out at Brian's. Very nicely done. I must say that 290cc injectors sound pretty small. I would say you need around 390-450cc, but what the hell do I know. Point taken. If I decide to start pushing more power I will absolutely be upgrading. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with these for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Regarding the past posts on injector sizing, keep in mind BSFC plays a big role in capability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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