some one explain this to me...

[copperhead]

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/04/recall-alert-15-million-gm-vehicles.html

 

OMG, I don't understand how anybody could drive a GM vehicle!

 

http://www.truckinohio.net/filedump/mike/gmgas.jpg

 

Also, Fiero

Also, Pinto

 

My first car when I was 16, which happened to be a CHEVY Monte Carlo SS had a sticky gas pedal too. I never wrecked it because of that...

[Xyster101]

All companies have had their fair share of recalls and problems. I love my Toyotas. Hell I received a recall for my 1991 toyota truck last year for a steering thing. I am the third owner and 18 years later they are still sending out recall info? That seems to be some service.

But they did screw up even if it was only a small number of cars that have this problem. I am sure that 20% of it is driver error anyway.

[nurkvinny]

hell toyota can't duplicate the issue from my under standing!

 

I'm sure they can't.

 

Toyotas and Hondas have never had the edge over GM and Ford, IMO.

 

All things run in cycles, and there will be a cycle where people buy the hype and think Hyundais are the shit, then maybe Datsun, err, I mean Nissan is the top shit, then we'll cycle back to Henry Ford. It's 50% Marketing, 40% word of mouth by people that will never change their own oil.

[Crossle]

Hard to duplicate problems that aren't there sometimes, not Toyota's fault that American's are so damn greedy for money.

 

No, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I'm skeptical of how HUGE the problem is.

[nurkvinny]

Hard to duplicate problems that aren't there sometimes, not Toyota's fault that American's are so damn greedy for money.

 

No, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I'm skeptical of how HUGE the problem is.

 

Really though, if it only kills < 10 people, is it any better?

 

Just playing devil's advocate.

[pontiacfreak142]

I'm sure they can't.

 

Toyotas and Hondas have never had the edge over GM and Ford, IMO.

 

All things run in cycles, and there will be a cycle where people buy the hype and think Hyundais are the shit, then maybe Datsun, err, I mean Nissan is the top shit, then we'll cycle back to Henry Ford. It's 50% Marketing, 40% word of mouth by people that will never change their own oil.

 

WIN! Howard, im not argueing with you there, they have all done some stupid shit in the past, but with the gm thing, im pretty sure they didnt out right lie to the public like toyota has been, which is basically m entire problem with this (correct me if im wrong). I also agree that people should be held some what accountable, but the problem with that is, all cars are different in operation anymore. I.e., alot of cars have push button start now and some cars you can just hit the button and the car dies, but others you have to hold the button for so long before it will. I do agree though that if it uses a key and you cant figure out how to sht it off, theres a problem.

[Smokey]

Howard, im not argueing with you there, they have all done some stupid shit in the past, but with the gm thing, im pretty sure they didnt out right lie to the public like toyota has been, which is basically m entire problem with this (correct me if im wrong).

 

It would be to your benefit to try to read the links someone posts before trying to retort their argument. To quote the posted article:

Edward C. Ivey' date=' a mechanical engineer in GM's Oldsmobile division in 1973, prepared his two-page memo to help managers "figure out how much Olds could spend on fuel systems" safety. Ivey assigned a "value" of $200,000 to each of the up to 500 people who burned to death annually in GM cars, concluding that the deaths cost $2.40 per car on the road. The callous reasoning: if GM could install a safer fuel tank for $2.40 per car or less, it stood to save money; anything more meant it was cheaper to pay for the deaths than to save lives. GM calculated it would cost $8.59 per car to protect fuel tanks in crashes – a net safety "cost" of $6.19 per car to save lives. [/quote']

 

Ivey was questioned by a GM defense attorney in 1981 about his memo and its use by GM managers. The attorney later wrote: "Obviously Ivey is a not an individual whom we would ever, in any situation, want to be identified to (plaintiffs)…and the documents he generated are undoubtedly some of the potentially most harmful and most damaging were they ever to be produced."

 

That became bedrock GM policy. GM managed to hide the lawyer's interview memo until 1998 when a Florida state judge ordered it into evidence. That case involved two children burned to death in 1991 when a small utility trailer ran into a 1983 Oldsmobile station wagon at low speed and punctured its fuel tank. Together, the GM documents revealed that Ivey had lied in previous trials about GM's knowledge of fuel tank hazards and the corporation's use of his 1973 cost analysis. In ordering GM to produce the evidence, the judge wrote: "This Court advised General Motors that it is not 'big enough to thumb its nose at the court,' and that it is not 'big enough to interfere with the orderly administration of justice,' and that it is not 'big enough to obstruct justice or conceal evidence.'" The jury awarded the family $33 million.

 

So....25 years of absolutely lying to everyone possible about the fact that GM skimped out on $6 per car because it was cheaper to let people burn up and pay the pissed off families....that's what's better to you? That's where your hard-earned loyalty lies? They could have fixed their issues for pennies compared to what it cost them in the end, but they wouldn't stand up and admit they made a mistake....that's what you're proud to represent?

[Draco-REX]

Wow, Toyota is the only one with Unintended Accelleration incidents, huh?

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nhtsa-data-dive-3-117-models-ranked-by-rate-of-ua-incidents/

 

Oh... Guess not. Granted, they have 8 of the top 20. But I see 7 Fords on the top 20 as well. Guess you're just as fucked if you "Buy American."

 

Prius ranked 26th, btw.

 

Here ya go, Incidents by age of driver:

http://www.businessinsider.com/a-deep-dive-into-toyota-sudden-acceleration-accident-stats-2010-3

 

I see a trend.

[Draco-REX]

One thing I've never seen one of these "victims" of unintended acceleration be asked is: "When you were pressing the brake pedal, did it go all the way to the floor?"

 

If the answer is yes, they were pressing the accelerator.

[twistedfocus1647545489]

One thing I've never seen one of these "victims" of unintended acceleration be asked is: "When you were pressing the brake pedal, did it go all the way to the floor?"

 

If the answer is yes, they were pressing the accelerator.

One thing I have learned about people over the years, which applies to everything really but particularly when it comes to driving habits is this:

 

When shit goes down it's always, ALWAYS someone else's fault. It has to be someone else's fault. How could I be held accountable for my shitty driving habits? I have been driving like shit for 20 years and never had an accident until now, so I know it wasn't my fault. Must have been the car.

[Hwilli1647545487]

Smokey already posted my response it looks like.

 

Also with vehicles with push button starts, it's still your PERSONAL responsibility to understand how the vehicle operates before you drive it. Also there is the option of shifting to neutral.

 

H

[Sam1647545489]

Let's look at GM. The take a government handout because they are incapable of correctly running their own business. So by purchasing their vehicles you are basically saying, fuck personal accountability.

 

http://www.safetyforum.com/gmft/

 

Which is worse. 30 years of hiding a design flaw known to cause multiple deaths, or the accelerator issue which just weeds us of dumb fucks who don't know how to drive. GM covered this up because it was cheaper by a few dollars per incident to not change their design flaw.

 

I can see what you wouldn't buy a Toyota, you would be one of the sheep who would be calling 911 asking them what to do right before you crashed into the wall. Personal accountability is to fucking much... We can't be expected to know how to operate the vehicles we are licensed to drive!!

 

Ford isn't guilt free either. Though I have much more respect for them for not taking a government handout.

 

http://www.firestone-tire-recall.com/pages/overview.html

 

So which car would you rather be driving. The two that you can't control if they have a failure or the one where you can?

 

Every auto manufacturer is going to experience design/manufacturing issues. Don't be a retard and buy into the media hype over whats going on with Toyota right now. Government Motors, Ford and the others have had their fair share as well.

 

H

 

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif

[boosted98gst]

Support american cars? That's all we need to support more mexican and canadian workers. Toyota should just ask the american government for help. I am all for supporting american economy, I will just eat at mcdonalds for lunch.

[twistedfocus1647545489]

Somewhat related to this topic, I just read this story on Yahoo. Consumer Reports says this Lexus (Toyota) SUV is a safety risk based on the fact that it's electronic stability control doesn't kick in quickly enough to save you if you drive like an asshole.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Consumer-Reports-calls-Lexus-apf-2415389625.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

 

Consumer Reports said the problem occurred during a handling test on its test track. During the test, the driver approaches a turn unusually fast, then releases the accelerator pedal to simulate a typical driver's response. This causes the rear of the vehicle to slide. *DUH*

 

In normal cases, the vehicle's electronic stability control should quickly correct the loss of control. But Shenhar said in the case of the GX 460, the stability control took too long to adjust, causing a risk of rolling over.

However, Consumer Reports said it is not aware of any reports of the vehicle rolling over. The magazine said it tested two separate vehicles, both of which experienced the problem, but neither rolled over.

[pontiacfreak142]

no i couldnt read the article, my phone sucks and had no access to a computer. Im not saying what gm did isnt completely wrong to. the gas tank problem happend to a few different auto makers over the years. As for personal accountabilty, i completely agree that you should know alot the vehicle you are driving, even before you ever get behind the wheel. The problem is, probably 80 percent of the people that own cars, dont know how to do anything more than start a car and drive it and some dont even care to anymore than that. Which in my opinion should be taken into consideration by all auto makers.

[Draco-REX]

Support american cars? That's all we need to support more mexican and canadian workers. Toyota should just ask the american government for help. I am all for supporting american economy, I will just eat at mcdonalds for lunch.

+1

 

Every Subaru Outback sold in the US is made in Indiana. As is every Tribecca sold in the WORLD. The same plant also assembles most of Toyota's US Camrys. Hyundai just opened a plant in Georgia I believe as well.

 

If someone REALLY wants to support the American Worker they should research where a car is built first, not just what country the parent company calls home on their tax forms.

[Nate1647545505]

+1

 

Every Subaru Outback sold in the US is made in Indiana. As is every Tribecca sold in the WORLD. The same plant also assembles most of Toyota's US Camrys. Hyundai just opened a plant in Georgia I believe as well.

 

If someone REALLY wants to support the American Worker they should research where a car is built first, not just what country the parent company calls home on their tax forms.

 

The plant in Lafayette is hugggggge, drove by it nearly everyday...

[Crossle]

Really though, if it only kills < 10 people, is it any better?

 

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

No it's not good at all, hence the massive recall that was the largest in history since Toyota has so damn many cars on the road. Also, to save money they use a lot of the same parts across their entire line of vehicles which is why Toyota is still doing pretty good for itself.

 

Ford should also be noted for using parts across their models including Mazda, BUT they feel the need to change everything every 2 years.

 

I agree there is a "major" problem in the sense of being a life threatening problem, yes.

[SquirrelyNutsDSP]

On a side note, I'm struggling to recall which auto manufacturer it was that pulled out of the NUMMI plant, effectively ending its ability to operate, and then failed to give ANY money for employee severance packages. Can anyone help me out?

 

Oh yes, that would be GM.

 

Every auto manufacturer has its own product problems and recall issues, some worse than others. However, it's interesting that a Japanese auto manufacturer would take more responsibility (*ahem* $250 million worth of severance money) for American workers losing their jobs than their American joint venture partner. The least you can do when you lay someone off is help a brotha out.

 

Every company conceals its dirty secrets, you just have to be privy to that information. But how would I know, I'm just a keyboard warrior right? Well I used to work for two major auto manufacturers as an engineer, so maybe I'm qualified to make an assessment.

 

Now not only do we have the victims of "unintended acceleration" suing, but also people upset because KBB reduced their resale values (what a joke), and insurance companies expecting Toyota to pay the claims and refund premiums (haha). That's what you get for messing up while doing business in America. The total dollar amount of all these suits combined would wipe out almost any company in the world.

[Cordell]

Same arguement, new thread.

 

GET A LIFE!

 

I'm buying Chevys, and you can buy whatever POS you want. :finger:

[Habitual Sinner]

Buy Korean.

[pontiacfreak142]

squirlley, i know what you mean. I will say toyota deffinately has gotten it a little worse than they deserve. Its just fucked up when people feel the need to fake the problem just to sue. But i guess thats just the world we live in these days.

[ImUrOBGYN]

Finally. I see some of you are reading and researching somethings for yourselves. Howard, good job. I've given up trying to make these statements to people or doing all the "footwork" digging these facts up. This is why I simply 'lol'd on the first page. So much misinformation and assumptions and no real research on the part of most of the people who talk like they know it all. It's exasperating, so now I just let it roll, laugh, then go drive whatever the fuck I want.