Oh Jesus..

[Scotty2Hotty]

Actually the debate is all about religious freedoms. They are wanting to practice their said religion in their own place of worship, which is something many people on this forum do every Sunday at church. The only difference is they are not praying to the same God that we are so why should we punish them for their feelings and ideas of God and religion as they see it. Like it has been said before not all Muslims are out to blow our country into pices and kill us all. Only a small percent. Why punish that large fraction of people over the actions of a select few who are undereducated and brainwashed? Thats like saying all white people hate black people because whites started the KKK.

It's really not, it's the placement of the establishment. Not to mention, yes, it happens to be a Muslim establishment. And again, I point out 9/11 was carried out and planned by non other than Muslims. I also hate everyone so there is no biased opinion here. I'm an equal opportunity hater of everything and everyone.

 

Triple for the crying babies

[Slowbalt]

It's really not, it's the placement of the establishment. Not to mention, yes, it happens to be a Muslim establishment. And again, I point out 9/11 was carried out and planned by non other than Muslims. I also hate everyone so there is no biased opinion here. I'm an equal opportunity hater of everything and everyone.

 

Triple for the crying babies

 

 

Again with the failed logic. This has been covered so many times now. Mosque= Muslim place of worship. 911 terrorists also were Muslim, however Muslim does not equal terrorist nor does Mosque = terrorism. this is equal to saying that since someone of Christian faith blows up a doctors office, Christian =terrorist and church= terrorist training camp. This is utterly silly. I do not concede that faith based religion is the heart of the problem, but Muslim does not = terrorist!!!!! Get it through your head. Don't get me wrong here as I am OPPOSED to Sharia Law and Muslim culture in the US replacing Western culture but to say they can't build a Mosque 2 and a half blocks away is silly. Manhattan is like 22 sq. miles and at its widest point is 2 miles. It is not a large place so everything is close to everything else.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Move it elsewhere. The end.

 

You don't win with your liberal thinking.

[Slowbalt]

Move it elsewhere. The end.

 

You don't win with your liberal thinking.

 

Fixed:

 

I have no information that can justify my irrational fears of Muslim peoples. The end.

 

You don't win with your rational and informed thinking.

[ImUrOBGYN]

Move it elsewhere. The end.

 

You don't win with your liberal thinking.

 

Where will they move it, Scotty? They're having a hard time EVERYWHERE. Even in your favorite state of California , they're protesting anything muslim including the bldg of mosques, etc. This silly fear and misunderstanding, the hate and overreaction, has been spread through ignorance and intolerance.

 

I understand it's easier to group people together rather than judge them individually, but is this what we've become? This is a lazy approach. A way of not taking responsibility for your own emotions and thoughts; a seemingly rampant issue here in the US. Nobody thinks for themselves, nobody takes responsibility. Everyone wants to blame someone else, everyone wants to punish someone else. And just because the majority thinks it's ok to do something, doesn't make it right. This attitude only amplifies negative feelings about the US and those who live here. Those who hate us will hate us no matter what. Let's not make the rest of the world hate us, too.

 

People are just fucking people and I wish the world would figure this shit out. Im so tired of the endless fighting between between countries, ourselves, etc. And in the grand scheme of things, petty, childish shit, too. Shit that literally keeps us from evolving as a species and becoming one to take on the universe, so to speak. So simple and petty the thoughts of man that we'd be so consumed by such small innerworldly things. Many of us live and kill and judge based on invisible beings. Are you fucking kidding me?! The world needs to wake up and stop being a petty, selfish, mean, ignorant little child.

 

Sorry, rant over. Only the first paragraph was made directly for Scotty, btw. The rest was rant. lol

[I Eat Rice]

It's really not, it's the placement of the establishment. Not to mention, yes, it happens to be a Muslim establishment. And again, I point out 9/11 was carried out and planned by non other than Muslims. I also hate everyone so there is no biased opinion here. I'm an equal opportunity hater of everything and everyone.

 

Triple for the crying babies

Again you are missing the big picture here. By us telling them they cant put up the mosque we are violating the seperation of church and state rights as well as the right to practice your said religion on your own terms, wherever you may want to. At least they will be doing it in the mosque instead of in the streets for everyone to see... I am a registered Republician so please don't try to fire that your liberal bullshit on me just because you can't get past the hate in your heart to realize you are living your life by sterotypes and judgeing people based on a fraction of a % as opposed to educating yourself on the matter. Like I said I am a Republician, however, I am also open minded and can see the many wrongs we would be creating as a nation to prevent this from happening. We would basically be spitting in the faces of the founding fathers and going away from many of the basic ideas that this great country was built off of.

Move it elsewhere. The end.

 

You don't win with your liberal thinking.

And this statement I already discredited it in this thread or another one. Anytime I have ever gone over to Slowbalts condo to chill, he is usually watching FOX news. The man is very well educated in his thoughts and ideas when it comes to government. He does not have extreamly one sided beliefs as you may think, again I love how people resort to name calling and attempted bashing once they become dumbfounded because they are out of things to say on the matter. Instead of stepping outside of the box and looking at it from another perspective and maybe learning something on the issue, you continue to keep your blinders and live a life of hate... I guess I can understand this though because you are a military man thus your going to have these sterotypes imbedded deep into your brain because it allows you to live somewhat of a normal life everyday without all the pain and suffering that comes with killing someone or multiple people over there. Edited August 15, 2010 by I Eat Rice

[V8 Beast]

Fact: Scotts logic if found deep in a magazine and down the barrel of a rifle that is pointed at the logic of those that do not agree with him.

[I Eat Rice]

Fact: Scotts logic if found deep in a magazine and down the barrel of a rifle that is pointed at the logic of those that do not agree with him.

This I am starting to see.

[87GT]

Fact: Scotts logic if found deep in a magazine and down the barrel of a rifle that is pointed at the logic of those that do not agree with him.

 

 

/sarcasm

 

Our country will never create space ships that can travel at warp speed and teleporters with this logic

[V8 Beast]

Fact: Trowa sees the world as a place full of rainbows and happy endings. He also voted against gay marriage... but that was only because his boyfriend was pressuring him for commitment..

[Mallard]

I find it ironic that most of the people that are so upset over this are also the one's that were hardcore Ron Paul fanatics.

 

Ron Paul is all about Constitutionalism, and all Obama said was that the freedoms granted by the Constitution to the people of the United States apply to ALL people within its borders, regardless of race, color, religion, etc. You guys should be loving him right now because he's acknowledging the Constitution as the supreme law of the land.

[copperhead]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iHIt9JRwyOIxxcNucgE_z7JR9I4AD9HFQ9DG0

 

BERLIN — German authorities say they have closed a Hamburg mosque used by the Sept. 11 attackers as a meeting place before they moved to the United States.

 

A statement by Hamburg officials says the Taiba mosque was shut down and its cultural association was banned on Monday.

 

The prayer house, formerly known as al-Quds mosque, used to be a meeting and recruiting point for some of the Sept. 11 attackers.

 

Weekly news magazine Focus cites a report by a local intelligence agency branch in saying the mosque has again become the city's "main center of attraction for the jihad scene." It says some members who belonged to the Taiba group and prayed at the mosque have moved on to a radical training camp in Uzbekistan.

 

Officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

[Slowbalt]

Surprise surprise. Muslim terrorists at a mosque.....Bet you can find Christian terrorists at a church...Jewish terrorists probably hang out around the synagogue. Are you understanding the point yet? If terrorists start meeting at ANY place and we are aware of it, we should take care of that situation, but again, we cannot just assume that because we build a mosque, terrorists will come.

[Veritas]

Slowbait wins again. The majority of you knocking him make me chuckle since you all seem to step up to using at least a 4th graders tactics are ridicule.

 

Sigh.

[Mallard]

Congress shall make no lw respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petito? the Government for a redress of grievances.

1st Amendment

[Slowbalt]

1st Amendment

 

Just to play devils advocate a bit, I think it could be argued that this is not a 1st amendment issue as preventing a building from being built is not exactly preventing someone from practicing their beliefs or restricting free speech. I agree that it goes against the "spirit" of the law though.

[Otis Nice]

I'm gonna build a church in Fallujah and have this painted on the side.

 

http://randywelborn.com/rw128.jpg

[OSUGT]

 

 

People are just fucking people and I wish the world would figure this shit out. Im so tired of the endless fighting between between countries, ourselves, etc. And in the grand scheme of things, petty, childish shit, too. Shit that literally keeps us from evolving as a species and becoming one to take on the universe, so to speak. So simple and petty the thoughts of man that we'd be so consumed by such small innerworldly things. Many of us live and kill and judge based on invisible beings. Are you fucking kidding me?! The world needs to wake up and stop being a petty, selfish, mean, ignorant little child.

 

 

Hi! I'm earth! Have we met? Peace, love, dope, man.

 

I'm actually tired of a "peaceful" religion that is motivated to "kill or convert" those who disagree. Oh, I know, their is a difference between traditional and radical Islam. blah blah blah Before you know it, we are going to be held hostage in our own country just like great Britain.

 

I just read an article on ESPN that says football practice in Dearborn MI is being held between midnight and 4 am to accomodate the Muslim players observance of Rhamadan. Unreal. However, since Dearborn in the capital of the Muslim population in the US, Sharia law has infiltrated the school system. Only a matter of time before this happens elsewhere.

 

Separation of church and state unless we are talking Islam I guess.

 

I think Scott's whole point might be that the legal thing to do is not always the right thing to do.

 

Technically, do they have a right to build it? yes. Is it in poor taste? Yes

[Mallard]

Just to play devils advocate a bit, I think it could be argued that this is not a 1st amendment issue as preventing a building from being built is not exactly preventing someone from practicing their beliefs or restricting free speech. I agree that it goes against the "spirit" of the law though.

 

You could argue that it restricts their freedom of assembly. They're allowed to buy property and use it for whatever they want, provided they comply with city ordinance. There is no law againt a religious establishment being located at specific areas in the city, and singling out the Muslim faith would be unconstitutional.

 

Timothy McVeigh went to church as a child, so we should probably persecute Roman Catholic's and outlaw churches, as they must breed this type of hateful behavior. The guy who parked his rigged up Pathfinder in Times Square probably stopped to eat a hot dog while he was scoping the place out. We should outlaw those too.

[Mallard]

Hi! I'm earth! Have we met? Peace, love, dope, man.

 

I'm actually tired of a "peaceful" religion that is motivated to "kill or convert" those who disagree.

 

Isn't that what the Catholic Crusades were all about? Isn't that what we did to native americans?

 

Unless you want to start ignoring the constitutional rights granted to citizens of this country, the legal thing to do is the right thing to do.

[OSUGT]

You could argue that it restricts their freedom of assembly. They're allowed to buy property and use it for whatever they want, provided they comply with city ordinance. There is no law againt a religious establishment being located at specific areas in the city, and singling out the Muslim faith would be unconstitutional.

 

Timothy McVeigh went to church as a child, so we should probably persecute Roman Catholic's and outlaw churches, as they must breed this type of hateful behavior. The guy who parked his rigged up Pathfinder in Times Square probably stopped to eat a hot dog while he was scoping the place out. We should outlaw those too.

 

So you wouldn't have a problem with someone buying a piece of land in the middle of OK city or next to the Morrow building and building a statue of McVay in tribute?

 

Legally, no. Does your gut tell you otherwise?

[OSUGT]

Isn't that what the Catholic Crusades were all about? Isn't that what we did to native americans?

 

Unless you want to start ignoring the constitutional rights granted to citizens of this country, the legal thing to do is the right thing to do.

 

Welcome to 2010. I'm not advocating any restriction on religion.

 

Its still ok with me to be tired of something, right?

[pontiacfreak142]

1) I never said there was a separation between church and state, I stated that I BELIEVE in it (Just like people BELIEVE in their right to bare arms). I also said all parties involved need to be careful how they word their stance on the building of this Masque to back up my belief.

 

2) Scott and Brian (and other Military personnel), Honestly the things you have done and seen I cannot even fathom. I have never and will never speak ill of ANYONE's specific military experiences. I have the utmost respect for all of our troops.

 

That being said I would like to believe that the people that were trying to kill you and the rest of our American brothers and sisters are across the pond. I would also like to believe that this Masque that is being built will breed hope and maybe even patriotism! Maybe in a perfect world...

 

3) I still believe we have bigger fish to fry.

 

before i say anything else, do i believe that one should have to change there faith because of where they live, no. Do i believe you should have to conform to the new society you live in, yes. If you move to this country from afganistan to get a better life, more power to you, but dont try to change what is to fit your life style (the mosque) praise allah in your own fucking home where i dont have to see it. On another note, like a few people have said, not all are bad, your going to have your extremist like the terrorists, but thats how it is all over the world and no matter what the case. Problem with just looking at it that way can still cause problems. For instance, im no extremist by any means, i didnt sign up for the army as soon as this war started, but if those ass fucks try again, you bet your ass ill be signing up. Same goes for the muslims, piss them off enough and who knows what that can/will do....

[Otis Nice]

Separation of church and state unless we are talking Islam I guess.

 

At a warehouse I was previously employed at some of my coworkers were Muslim. I'm just fine and dandy with that. They came to the country, got a green card, seeked employment, etc. Essentially, entered the country legally and gained employment legally. Cool.

 

My problem came when they insisted on trying to convert me relentlessly. I never tried to force my views and beliefs on them but it was non-stop.

 

I was even more irritated when we were rushing around trying to meet essential deadlines and they stopped in the middle of the aisles, got down on their knees, and prayed/practiced their religion. I wasn't upset that they were doing it (even though they did so in the middle of the floor and it DID creat a problem for those trying to work around them) but in that the management told me that at any time if I wanted to kneel and pray, as a Christian, I'd have to wait until break and find somewhere else to do it as to not offend them. Ridiculous.

 

PS ~ I don't blame all Muslims, or pro-muslim parties, for this situation. I still keep in contact with a few of them b/c they were really cool guys. Spoke French though. Never understood that. LOL

 

I just can't stand that a DC manager, who was african before coming to the US many years ago, insisted that those from Africa who were Muslim were the only ones allowed to practice their faight without recourse. HE is who I cannot stand. Not the religion or those who practice it.

 

It just sickens me that things like this happen all over the country and lowly dock hands, as I was at the time, can do nothing about it.

[OSUGT]

At a warehouse I was previously employed at some of my coworkers were Muslim. I'm just fine and dandy with that. They came to the country, got a green card, seeked employment, etc. Essentially, entered the country legally and gained employment legally. Cool.

 

My problem came when they insisted on trying to convert me relentlessly. I never tried to force my views and beliefs on them but it was non-stop.

 

I was even more irritated when we were rushing around trying to meet essential deadlines and they stopped in the middle of the aisles, got down on their knees, and prayed/practiced their religion. I wasn't upset that they were doing it (even though they did so in the middle of the floor and it DID creat a problem for those trying to work around them) but in that the management told me that at any time if I wanted to kneel and pray, as a Christian, I'd have to wait until break and find somewhere else to do it as to not offend them. Ridiculous.

 

PS ~ I don't blame all Muslims, or pro-muslim parties, for this situation. I still keep in contact with a few of them b/c they were really cool guys. Spoke French though. Never understood that. LOL

 

I just can't stand that a DC manager, who was african before coming to the US many years ago, insisted that those from Africa who were Muslim were the only ones allowed to practice their faight without recourse. HE is who I cannot stand. Not the religion or those who practice it.

 

It just sickens me that things like this happen all over the country and lowly dock hands, as I was at the time, can do nothing about it.

 

totally get your frustration. I will leave it at that.