Oh Jesus..

[Mallard]

So you wouldn't have a problem with someone buying a piece of land in the middle of OK city or next to the Morrow building and building a statue of McVay in tribute?

 

Legally, no. Does your gut tell you otherwise?

 

A mosque is not equal to a statue of the hijackers, so this analogy is bogus.

 

We locked up all the Japanese people in this country because we thought they were all spy's, right? Should we have kept them all locked up? Would/could we do that today, and would we have justification?

 

The wonderful thing about the USA is it's a place where the same freedoms are granted to every person, regardless of race, color, religion, sex, etc. You may not agree with other people's views and ideals, everyone has a right to their openly practice their views and ideals. The irony is christian extremists protest at military funerals, but it's that military that protects their right to demonstrate.

 

Muslum does not equal terrorist. Mosque does not equal sleeper cell training grounds.

 

To the example of the Muslum co-workers preaching their religion to you- I've had the same experience with countless numers of Christians who see it as their duty to God to 'save' people. There are all kinds of people out there, good and bad, of every demographic. Why does this mosque have to autmatially be evil? Maybe it will be an 'embassy' of sorts for the muslum religion to demonstrate, or show the world/US, that they are compassionate, caring, and peaceful.

[Otis Nice]

To the example of the Muslum co-workers preaching their religion to you- I've had the same experience with countless numers of Christians who see it as their duty to God to 'save' people. There are all kinds of people out there, good and bad, of every demographic. Why does this mosque have to autmatially be evil? Maybe it will be an 'embassy' of sorts for the muslum religion to demonstrate, or show the world/US, that they are compassionate, caring, and peaceful.

 

I fully agree with you. I have other "Christians" try to tell me I'm going to hell. They do come in all shapes, sizes, colors, beliefs, etc. My beef wasn't just in the annoyance of the way they went about it NON-STOP, and they were'nt "preaching" their religion as much as condemning everyone who didn't believe what they did, but the way management handled it. I believe I stated it that way before. (checking) Yes, I did. They were encouraged to and I was forbidden to. THAT'S where my frustration lies. It has nothing to do with their religion or practices, rather the way the situaation was handled.

 

I also don't believe I said anything about a mosque being evil. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants wanting to practice their religion. I DO have a problem with being told that I can't though when I was born and raised here.

 

That sir, is my beef.

[cinergi]

Amen. They don't understand for not having lived inside the fucked up culture, and have to deal with these fuck bags blowing you up everyday in the name of "Allah". It's disgusting for the fact that it is going to be allowed. I sure as shit ain't giving into this lets be tolerant type attitude everyone has today.

 

We are going to hell in a hand basket, just the way they want us to.

 

I can see no good argument for any of this, but I see plenty against it.

 

America becomes less like the ideals it was founded on every day.

[cinergi]

I fully agree with you. I have other "Christians" try to tell me I'm going to hell. They do come in all shapes, sizes, colors, beliefs, etc. My beef wasn't just in the annoyance of the way they went about it NON-STOP, and they were'nt "preaching" their religion as much as condemning everyone who didn't believe what they did, but the way management handled it. I believe I stated it that way before. (checking) Yes, I did. They were encouraged to and I was forbidden to. THAT'S where my frustration lies. It has nothing to do with their religion or practices, rather the way the situaation was handled.

 

I also don't believe I said anything about a mosque being evil. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants wanting to practice their religion. I DO have a problem with being told that I can't though when I was born and raised here.

 

That sir, is my beef.

 

I was just about to bring this last part up. That's where the issue really burns me. Keep your culture alive, but after you have a legacy here--then we'll find a way to stop it.

[pontiacfreak142]

I fully agree with you. I have other "Christians" try to tell me I'm going to hell. They do come in all shapes, sizes, colors, beliefs, etc. My beef wasn't just in the annoyance of the way they went about it NON-STOP, and they were'nt "preaching" their religion as much as condemning everyone who didn't believe what they did, but the way management handled it. I believe I stated it that way before. (checking) Yes, I did. They were encouraged to and I was forbidden to. THAT'S where my frustration lies. It has nothing to do with their religion or practices, rather the way the situaation was handled.

 

I also don't believe I said anything about a mosque being evil. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants wanting to practice their religion. I DO have a problem with being told that I can't though when I was born and raised here.

 

That sir, is my beef.

 

you sir are a better person than i. that company would have one hell of a lawsuit on there hands for shit like that. I do have a problem with them practicing there religion at work. Its bullshit plain and simple. My dad works at a GM dealership as a master tech. He knows his shit and can get shit done quick. The problem is, their lot jockey that takes the cars back to him and the rest of the techs is a samolion that likes to practice his beliefs and dissappears quite often and guess what? Shit takes longer to get done because he isnt bringing back or picking up cars like he is supposed to be. Like you said, i know damn well if i tried that crap, id be fired in a heartbeat.

[OSUGT]

A mosque is not equal to a statue of the hijackers, so this analogy is bogus.

 

 

I bet the victims of 911 and a lot of their families would disagree with you.

 

Sorry, but the majority of americans agree that its a legal thing to do that is in very poor taste.

[Slowbalt]

Hi! I'm earth! Have we met? Peace, love, dope, man.

 

I'm actually tired of a "peaceful" religion that is motivated to "kill or convert" those who disagree. Oh, I know, their is a difference between traditional and radical Islam. blah blah blah Before you know it, we are going to be held hostage in our own country just like great Britain.

 

Well I guess you must be tired of Christianity as well then:p You are confusing something here. By "radical Islam" I am assuming you mean terrorists that practice the religion of Islam. Those who truly believe that infidels must die. I am also going to assume non-violent practitioners of Islam is what you mean by "traditional islam". There is no difference in Islam itself. The text in the Quran doesn't change, individuals just interpret it differently. This is the same as those people who feel that homosexuality is a sin and should be punished. Other people feel that being homosexuals are OK as long as they don't act on it....

 

I just read an article on ESPN that says football practice in Dearborn MI is being held between midnight and 4 am to accomodate the Muslim players observance of Rhamadan. Unreal. However, since Dearborn in the capital of the Muslim population in the US, Sharia law has infiltrated the school system. Only a matter of time before this happens elsewhere.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=5467167

 

I'm assuming this is the article you are referring to then? Here is the gist of it:

"We know how hot it's been this summer -- it's not safe," Zaban said.

 

Working it out meant getting the approval of school and district administrators and the blessings of players, parents and police. Then, there were the residents in the surrounding neighborhood, who would hear more noise and see the illuminated field. So he sent letters explaining the decision.

 

Zaban is unaware of such schedule switches elsewhere, though other teams at the school and in the district have moved practices earlier or later in the day. It's been more than three decades since Ramadan last fell during football preseason and Fordson's Muslim population was far smaller then -- and, he notes, there were no field lights.

 

Sharia law is not and will never be enforced in US classrooms ever.

 

 

 

 

 

Separation of church and state unless we are talking Islam I guess.

 

I think Scott's whole point might be that the legal thing to do is not always the right thing to do.

 

Technically, do they have a right to build it? yes. Is it in poor taste? Yes

Separation and protection of the State from religion.

 

In the US the legal thing *should* be the right thing to do. I am NOT saying we must do exactly what the law says just because its the law.

 

It wouldn't be in bad taste as long as it isn't opened on 9/11, and even then it could still be justified.

[Slowbalt]

We are going to hell in a hand basket, just the way they want us to.

 

I can see no good argument for any of this, but I see plenty against it.

 

America becomes less like the ideals it was founded on every day.

 

So you admit there is a war between Christians and Muslims? You are probably the first that will admit it.

[Slowbalt]

I bet the victims of 911 and a lot of their families would disagree with you.

 

Sorry, but the majority of americans agree that its a legal thing to do that is in very poor taste.

 

People that died in 911 were also Muslim, ya lunkhead.

[OSUGT]

People that died in 911 were also Muslim, ya lunkhead.

 

 

I've tried to refrain from name calling and keep this a civil dialogue. Typical liberal MO...start calling names with those that disagree with you.

 

BTW, I didn't call you a liberal...you just sound an awful lot like one.

 

I'm also aware that there were Muslims who probably died. No one disputes this. I've also NEVER said it should be illegal to build a mosque. I will continue to say its in terribly bad taste. Like it or hate it, its what the majority of Americans think.

 

Is it illegal for Japanese citizens to visit Peal Harbor? Nope. Does it feel really weird when I see them there? Yep. Wonder why that is?

[OSUGT]

Well I guess you must be tired of Christianity as well then:p You are confusing something here. By "radical Islam" I am assuming you mean terrorists that practice the religion of Islam. Those who truly believe that infidels must die. I am also going to assume non-violent practitioners of Islam is what you mean by "traditional islam". There is no difference in Islam itself. The text in the Quran doesn't change, individuals just interpret it differently. This is the same as those people who feel that homosexuality is a sin and should be punished. Other people feel that being homosexuals are OK as long as they don't act on it....

 

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=5467167

 

I'm assuming this is the article you are referring to then? Here is the gist of it:

 

Sharia law is not and will never be enforced in US classrooms ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Separation and protection of the State from religion.

 

In the US the legal thing *should* be the right thing to do. I am NOT saying we must do exactly what the law says just because its the law.

 

It wouldn't be in bad taste as long as it isn't opened on 9/11, and even then it could still be justified.

 

I'm not confusing anything, thanks.

 

You are pretty short sighted if you think Sharia law will never enter a US classroom. Just watch. I'll bet Dearborn is one of the first instances of this. I'm gonna guess that part of Sharia law means observing Ramadan though. Seems like this is what they are doing in this school.

[87GT]

Fact: Trowa sees the world as a place full of rainbows and happy endings. He also voted against gay marriage... but that was only because his boyfriend was pressuring him for commitment..

 

Fact: Your statement is half correct. I do see rainbows and happy endings all over the place. That is the only way I can keep myself from slitting my wrists from all the Americans that think it is ok to be intolerant of other Americans. But I did vote for gay marriage not against it. Since most major corporations will not allow a same sex roommate to get coverage if you are dependent on them for at least 6 months. It should be OK for coverage regardless of your sexual preference. Even more OK to me if you are legally married.

 

FYI when I lived with one of my ex-girlfriends I had a period of time when I was unemployed where I was on her health insurance until I got a job. They changed their rules but lucky I got a job before they dropped my coverage. This should be OK for same sex but it isn't.

 

Now I am changing the topic fuck my life I am going to slit my wrists until rainbows flow.

[OSUGT]

Tolerance is a wonderful thing. It works both ways too. Maybe the folks who want to build this mosque should be a little more "tolerant" of the opposing opinions and find somewhere else to build it?

[87GT]

Go look at a map and see how big the island is. I bet you would say anywhere in Manhattan is too close to ground zero.

[OSUGT]

A map? I saw one of those once. I'm aware of how big the island is. 3 blocks away just doesn't seem appropriate. Please be tolerant of my opinion. Thanks so much.

[87GT]

Sure I can be tolerant of your opinion but only if you are tolerant of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

[Slowbalt]

I've tried to refrain from name calling and keep this a civil dialogue. Typical liberal MO...start calling names with those that disagree with you.

 

BTW, I didn't call you a liberal...you just sound an awful lot like one.

 

I'm also aware that there were Muslims who probably died. No one disputes this. I've also NEVER said it should be illegal to build a mosque. I will continue to say its in terribly bad taste. Like it or hate it, its what the majority of Americans think.

 

Is it illegal for Japanese citizens to visit Peal Harbor? Nope. Does it feel really weird when I see them there? Yep. Wonder why that is?

 

I am starting to get a feel for people of this mindset now. You are taking a group of people and applying a thought about them to a whole population.

We have already gone this direction in this discussion and have steered back on track. Try to follow along if you can. Pearl harbor was bombed by the Japanese military. All Japanese people do not represent the people that made the decisions to bomb the harbor. This is similar to a group of Muslim people who attacked us DO NOT represent ALL Muslim peoples. My argument is not "i'm right because you're dumb". Muslim families that had lost loved ones probably think similar thoughts to those non Muslim people that lost loved ones. "What a terrible tragedy! Those that are responsible for organizing this should be held accountable for what they have done"

 

I'm not confusing anything, thanks.

 

You are pretty short sighted if you think Sharia law will never enter a US classroom. Just watch. I'll bet Dearborn is one of the first instances of this. I'm gonna guess that part of Sharia law means observing Ramadan though. Seems like this is what they are doing in this school.

 

I did not say that some tenets of Sharia law would not be seen in school. What I did say however is that Sharia law will not be *enforced*. There is a subtle but important difference. We will not see this for the same reasons we can see prayer in school but we will not tolerate compulsory prayer. What this particular school is doing everyone seemed to agree upon so that the kids can eat and drink water while practicing. Although I am firmly against indoctrination of children, this decision has little to do with forcing them to observe a religious belief and more to do with accommodating the religious beliefs.

 

Lastly no one has to tolerate or respect your opinion. You are allowed your opinion but it will stand or fall on its own objective merits.

[87GT]

This explains it all

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins/index.html

 

If you are too lazy to read go to google maps and type in mosque manhattan new york and see how many mosques already exist on the island.

[cptn janks]

god the ignorance in this thread is astounding.

 

we were attacked by extremist followers of osama bin laden. they do not represent all muslims, just as pat robertson or fred phelps or eric rudolph do not represent all christians.

 

thinking that a mosque automatically = al qaeda field office and that every muslim wants to blow america up is just as ignorant and bigoted as thinking that every black guy you see is going to rob your house and rape your wife.

[OSUGT]

I am starting to get a feel for people of this mindset now. You are taking a group of people and applying a thought about them to a whole population.

We have already gone this direction in this discussion and have steered back on track. Try to follow along if you can. Pearl harbor was bombed by the Japanese military. All Japanese people do not represent the people that made the decisions to bomb the harbor. This is similar to a group of Muslim people who attacked us DO NOT represent ALL Muslim peoples. My argument is not "i'm right because you're dumb". Muslim families that had lost loved ones probably think similar thoughts to those non Muslim people that lost loved ones. "What a terrible tragedy! Those that are responsible for organizing this should be held accountable for what they have done"

 

 

 

I did not say that some tenets of Sharia law would not be seen in school. What I did say however is that Sharia law will not be *enforced*. There is a subtle but important difference. We will not see this for the same reasons we can see prayer in school but we will not tolerate compulsory prayer. What this particular school is doing everyone seemed to agree upon so that the kids can eat and drink water while practicing. Although I am firmly against indoctrination of children, this decision has little to do with forcing them to observe a religious belief and more to do with accommodating the religious beliefs.

 

Lastly no one has to tolerate or respect your opinion. You are allowed your opinion but it will stand or fall on its own objective merits.

 

wow, thanks for allowing me an opinion. Mighty kind of you. Why wouldn't my opinion at least be tolerated? Because its not yours? Everyone preaches about tolerance until it hits the fan. Kinda funny. A tolerable opinion is a shared opinion now?

 

Again, I have no beef with the Japanese people. They did what they did 70 years ago to win a war. They thought they were right and they fought for their beliefs. Personally, I would never visit Hiroshima or Nagasaki OUT OF RESPECT for the fact that there are probably some hard feelings over what happened.

 

Is it legal for me to do it? Yep. Do I consider it to be in bad taste. Yep. If that makes me ignorant according to some of the intellectual elitists on this board, then so be it.

[OSUGT]

This explains it all

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins/index.html

 

If you are too lazy to read go to google maps and type in mosque manhattan new york and see how many mosques already exist on the island.

 

good read. It gives the media too much credit for shaping public opinion though.

[87GT]

To get an idea of where Geller is coming from, she once suggested that Malcolm X was Obama's real father. Seriously. So the outrage was started by the Geller cunt and Rupert F. Murdoch. No one said anything until Geller started the outrage then The NY Post (owned by Murdoch) jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Your shipment of HERP DERP has arrived.

[OSUGT]

 

Your shipment of HERP DERP has arrived.

 

classy

[Slowbalt]

wow, thanks for allowing me an opinion. Mighty kind of you. Why wouldn't my opinion at least be tolerated? Because its not yours? Everyone preaches about tolerance until it hits the fan. Kinda funny. A tolerable opinion is a shared opinion now?

 

Again, I have no beef with the Japanese people. They did what they did 70 years ago to win a war. They thought they were right and they fought for their beliefs. Personally, I would never visit Hiroshima or Nagasaki OUT OF RESPECT for the fact that there are probably some hard feelings over what happened.

 

Is it legal for me to do it? Yep. Do I consider it to be in bad taste. Yep. If that makes me ignorant according to some of the intellectual elitists on this board, then so be it.

 

I don't grant you the right to have an opinion, the constitution does. I could have the opinion that "All Jews should burn". Is it my right to have this opinion? Certainly, but is the public REQUIRED to tolerate it? Not at all. Anything founded in discussion, evidence, peer review, etc deserves its time in the light but once something has been discredited, one looks foolish for trudging it back up from the dead. Again, you have the right to think whatever you want but do not be surprised if you sound foolish when you open your mouth and let these thoughts out.

[OSUGT]

Talk about an extreme approach.^ My opinion is no where near that of an anti-semtic bigot. If you have to go that far to prove a point, you might have just crossed a line that makes you sound foolish.

 

 

 

 

Goodnight. Just want to say that I tolerate all of your opinions. One issue does not define someone. I think each one of your opinions is based on a constitutional right to assemble. Believe it or not, I share your view at the end of the day.

 

I will agree that if this mosque were disallowed, it would set a slippery precedent for unwanted govt interference. If they can do that, then they have nothing to stop them from doing something unwanted to me.

 

Everyone wants consideration in this world. I don't think it makes anyone a bad person to ask for it in this case.