Want to save some scratch on training and range costs?

[Mowgli1647545497]

Travis Haley has some thoughts:

 

 

This is the same stuff we've been telling clients for years.

 

FYI - note lack of Magpul stuff on that back wall - lol

 

(although I about jizzed when I started counting how much scratch was up there, I quit somewhere around $30k)

[schmuckingham]

I see a ton of Magpul stocks and forearms

[Mowgli1647545497]

I meant logos. Magpul logos.

 

His older vids used to have a ton plastered all over - until he left them. Paul Howe and Kyle Lamb both advocate using Airsoft as a training tool. Costa was "too cool" to have any part of it. Uhuh. Ironically, Magpul now is one of the top AS suppliers with their PTS line.

 

The best part is right around ~11:25 or so - he's exactly right: force on force. "You have to train to have an innoculation to stress". And IMO if you're going to train with opfor you gotta do it right: If they're not shooting back at you, and if it don't hurt, it ain't right.

 

We always enjoy when we get clients out to the field for CCW or Tactical Shooter or some other class, and they're poo pooing using AS as a training tool, and then they try some opfor. Always the same result: We've had competition champion shooters out, professionals, etc. and if they've never been in a force on force situation, then as soon as they're getting shot back at (and mind you this is AS) they get their shit handed to them. Get em off flat ground, out of shooting stations, and it all falls apart. People become converts real quick then.

 

We stress it over and over again: I don't care how good your fundamentals are, your stance, grip, drills, procedures, etc. If you're not used to a stress induced situation then the only thing you're going to really be able to handle is shooting clay pigeons and unarmed grandmothers.

 

Cliffs Notes:

AS trades off the noise and recoil of RS to give you more options for force-on-force, training locations, volume and price. They compliment each other quite well.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Mowgli

[dragknee66]

Now if more people would play that would be even better

[schmuckingham]

I am all for force on force training, if I could find a place to practice that makes sense for me.

[Mowgli1647545497]

Now if more people would play that would be even better

John and Mike, there are literally events going on every weekend of the month around Ohio from Cleveland to Cincinnati that draw easily 60 to 80 people.

 

We ourselves host events at Springfield (a 40min drive west of Columbus) twice a month and regularly get 100+ individuals. Not all of these are training events obviously, most are open to the public with a fee and waiver, but there are several training companies that use these fields with AS and would be happy to set something up with your folks at your convenience. We're finding as training budgets are becoming tighter and tighter, officers have to become more and more creative about finding and paying for good training. Many municipalities starting to offer comp'd funding for officers who requisition their own training.

 

Here is a great local company that provides a full gamut of training including force on force and makes use of AS in their repertoire. http://www.highrisktraining.net

 

Likewise, if you're just looking to work on fundamentals and stance and drills, you can set something up in your garage or basement and go at it without worrying you're going to be destroying your home or property.

 

Lastly, you can come out to any of these open events, and even some of the higher 200 or 300 series, and regardless of what the Op scenarios are that are laid out, you can work on your tactics, drills and improve that muscle memory - against live targets.

 

And, if you come out to Springfield at a public event, and come grab me, we'll make sure the host throws in some specific scenarios just for you to work on what you'd like: room clearing, hostage, dynamic entry, general CQB, etc. The people that attend these are great groups of guys, many in LE and first responder roles who'd love to "Be the bad guy" for you. And some of them will really test your skills.

 

Regardless, I guarantee you'll have fun, learn some things you can't learn at the range, and save a bit of cash.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Mowgli

[Mowgli1647545497]

Here are a few pics I could grab off hand of the CQB area at Springfield. We use the funds to turn it back into new construction, and have been building for the past 6 years, constantly adding and changing. Our focus is on layout and lines of sight over fluff. Also, we keep additional building materials on hand always so if a client needs a specific layout we can get something up quickly.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6323/user2274pic155251311708.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8126/user2274pic132121302727.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2458/user2274pic125271299200.jpg

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5238/user2274pic533912577977.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8370/user2274pic533412577972.jpg

This is just one area of a field that is 1.5square miles, with a very wide range or geography (from open fields to cliffs and waterfalls) and 4 separate CQB "villages".

 

And a pic from our Explosive Breaching Course - 1. June 09

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9391/user3467pic287912450235.jpg

[schmuckingham]

John, there are literally events going on every weekend of the month around Ohio from Cleveland to Cincinnati that draw easily 60 to 80 people.

 

We ourselves host events at Springfield (a 40min drive west of Columbus) twice a month and regularly get 100+ individuals. Not all of these are training events obviously, most are open to the public with a fee and waiver, but there are several training companies that use these fields with AS and would be happy to set something up with your folks at your convenience. We're finding as training budgets are becoming tighter and tighter, officers have to become more and more creative about finding and paying for good training. Many municipalities starting to offer comp'd funding for officers who requisition their own training.

 

Here is a great local company that provides a full gamut of training including force on force and makes use of AS in their repertoire. http://www.highrisktraining.net

 

Likewise, if you're just looking to work on fundamentals and stance and drills, you can set something up in your garage or basement and go at it without worrying you're going to be destroying your home or property.

 

Lastly, you can come out to any of these open events, and even some of the higher 200 or 300 series, and regardless of what the Op scenarios are that are laid out, you can work on your tactics, drills and improve that muscle memory - against live targets.

 

And, if you come out to Springfield at a public event, and come grab me, we'll make sure the host throws in some specific scenarios just for you to work on what you'd like: room clearing, hostage, dynamic entry, general CQB, etc. The people that attend these are great groups of guys, many in LE and first responder roles who'd love to "Be the bad guy" for you. And some of them will really test your skills.

 

Regardless, I guarantee you'll have fun, learn some things you can't learn at the range, and save a bit of cash.

 

Were would be a good place for me to go as a beginner/ no formal training with force on force?

[Drewhop]

Were would be a good place for me to go as a beginner/ no formal training with force on force?

 

+1

[Hwilli1647545487]

I'd like info as well.

[dragknee66]

This is getting more interesting yes.

Do I need my own airsoft stuff to come join with you or..? I mean I could go buy some stuff

[Mowgli1647545497]

In Columbus the nearest reputable field is Springfield. In Cleveland and Cincinnati you have some more choices.

 

I'd recommend coming out to a public event and getting a feel that way before you decide to invest any departmental cash in a private training event. Public events range in scale from "Open" events, where anyone with an airsoft weapon, the signed waiver (Notaried if you're under 18) the safety equipment (in Ohio being full seal ansi-rated goggles) and the fee for entry can attend. The scenarios tend to be short and simple with as much of an eye toward recreation and competition as training. Up from there are 200 series and 300 series which tend to be more restrictive on the equipment allowed, the rulesets around the scenarios, the complexity of the scenarios, and entry criteria of the attendees (age, etc). And then up from there are the invite-only or per-pay training events, usually scheduled and chartered by some company or municipality for employee purposes, or by private groups.

 

We use the open plays to fund the rest of our offerings so they tend to be the most flexible for newcomers.

 

 

DO NOT bother looking at the stuff you might run across in Dick's or Walmart or Target so forth. These are junk and a complete waste of money. For a decent AEG that will work for you straight out of the box you're looking in the $200-$500 range. You want one that closely approximates your RS weapon so the best way is to go hold some. Not all AEGs are created equal and a good dealer can help you out. A good AEG will be indistinguishable from your RS equivalent: materials, weight, dimension, geometry.

 

In Columbus, I would check out AirsoftSmith on Bethel Road. In Cincy I would try AirsoftArms or 321Airsoft. All three have websites where you can browse stock. Not saying you need to buy there: once you know what you want you can price shop online. Be aware though that buying from overseas can incur quite a few Customs delays. Buying locally or from a US distributor means you can avoid those headaches.

 

At Springfield you can rent gear, the host has spare ARs available, but quantities are limited.

 

A good first step I guess would be to come out and see for yourself. Let me know and I can make sure Franc (the host at Springfield) has equipment to rent, and I can set you up with a set of goggles for your first go. You'll need a decent set of boots with good support, and some good rugged clothing. BDUs or service blouses work well to get started.

-------------------

 

EDIT: Update: emails received, info sent. See you guys on the field. CCW instructors will be there Sat but not for classes, however you can talk with them.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Mowgli

[jerrodh]

Makes a lot of sense to me. The nice thing I see here that he mentioned too is as far as home training, if you don't have any place to shoot safely at your house chances are you could still use an airsoft.