iwishiwascool Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I empathize with what you went through, but I hope in terms of changing your perspective it has since changed the way you live, save and spend so that YOU can take control of even the bad situations. Hopefully the Vodka you joked about drinking while posting isn't negatively impacting whatever ailed you. Either way, that's your choice. [/i]. Dude, you are so condescending. You know nothing about me; I was not the one with an issue. If either of us should do some drinking it's you, it might lubricate the stick in your ass. If you are like this in real life, I am telling you right now that everyone hates you; including your wife. Until 3 months ago I was the VP of a national recruiting firm; a job I left because I now consult for multiple companies and am moving to our beach house on the gulf coast. My wife also works remotely as the marketing director for 2 national companies. The issue we faced would have destroyed you and the little impenetrable security blankey you love to brag about. I was born on third too. Most people on this board were. To hold people accountable to the exact same standard you hold yourself you are presuming that they were exposed to the exact same experiences, opportunities and advantages that you were. There is a normal distribution curve associated with every variable that has allowed you to have the sense of security you have. Instead of being grateful for being on the right side of the bell curve for most of them, instead of being grateful for having not suffered a "perfect storm" or two you pat yourself on the back for being miles ahead of others who started the race in a broken wheelchair. Talking to you is like conversing with a 20 year old know it all who thinks they have the whole world figured out. Pride comes before a fall; I hope for your sake it is a plenty long while before you find that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I lived there Bill. Yes I have a perspective. However there are people everywhere who feel Appplebees is the shit when it comes to great food. The system works but sucks for the majority of folks above the median line of success. It's built for those below it. Not a recipe for what I would call success. I watched coworkers unlucky enough to be a part of that system get some pretty shitty doctors that they had to wait a long time to see. Sure, a simple clinic visit for a sinus infection isn't months out, but there's a reason why you don't hear of too many people around the world going to Canada for heart surgery or transplants. Their system pays for meritocracy and delivers it in a less than average way. But hey, at least the poor will live longer and the taxes that fund their system fuck the general population in a fair and uniform way. Don't believe me on wait times, just do some web browsing on how it's a major discussion point during their elections. Here's a screen shot of real time data for a simple Tonsillectomy. All Providences have web sites set up for such searches because the problem of waiting lists is so bad. Here's the wait time list as of today. Have fun eating for the next 3-6 months. Dental care is 10x worse. My coworkers hated that I could go back to the states, get a cleaning and if I needed a follow up filling done my wait was perhaps 1-2 days or even same day. http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/144412258/original.jpg It really don't seem bad I had to wait quite a while to get my back surgery done in the US and my buddy who lived in Canada had is back surgery done 2 weeks quicker then mine. I don't think people should have to risk losing everything due to healthcare...... I speak from perspective of someone who lost everything and I'm just now getting back on my feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 don't think people should have to risk losing everything due to healthcare...... I speak from perspective of someone who lost everything and I'm just now getting back on my feet. flip side of that argument is also not fair. those of us others shouldn't have to flip the bill in terms of higher premiums for people who have not structured their lives to cover the premiums and or those that don't take care of themselves. I really have no interest in flipping the bill for people with multiple kids, living below the poverty line who smoke and are overwieght. THAT'S not fair. It puts the burden on those of us who are as someone here said "do everything right" I have empathy for what you likely went through during the ordeal, but the reality is that it happened to you and your family and not the world. To expect the world to flip the bill for it isn't fair to them. The reality is you also made choices along the way that didn't exactly align with someone who lost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 flip side of that argument is also not fair. those of us others shouldn't have to flip the bill in terms of higher premiums for people who have not structured their lives to cover the premiums and or those that don't take care of themselves. I really have no interest in flipping the bill for people with multiple kids, living below the poverty line who smoke and are overwieght. THAT'S not fair. It puts the burden on those of us who are as someone here said "do everything right" I have empathy for what you likely went through during the ordeal, but the reality is that it happened to you and your family and not the world. To expect the world to flip the bill for it isn't fair to them. The reality is you also made choices along the way that didn't exactly align with someone who lost everything. Lets see, Lost both my cars lost my house sold my motorcycle to pay bills moved in with my parents and pretty much spent a few years in a very shitty place. Now I work 2 jobs to have some toys and still scared that at any moment my wifes health could take a turn and even more bills will pop up. I think for a first world country like AMERICA Healthcare should be a right. I pay taxes that go towards the fire department and police both are a type of insurance and a socialized system. Why should i pay for idiots who have houses that burn down??? My house hasn't burned down yet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I think the right could do a better job at keeping their outrage in proportion: -Only 1.7% of people derive more than 50% of their income from government assistance (Does not include Medicare). It's less than 8% if you include any assistance. -This represents ~2% of the overall budget. -93% of welfare fraud is committed by vendors, not recipients. Come to the ER with me on any given night and tell me you still believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Come to the ER with me on any given night and tell me you still believe this. 65% of the time stats you pull from the internet are right all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Lets see, Lost both my cars lost my house sold my motorcycle to pay bills moved in with my parents and pretty much spent a few years in a very shitty place. Now I work 2 jobs to have some toys and still scared that at any moment my wifes health could take a turn and even more bills will pop up. I think for a first world country like AMERICA Healthcare should be a right. Okay but you tell us all you work two jobs to have some toys and see nothing wrong with that statement when combined with wanting others to additional dollars so everyone in America can pay a healthcare premium? I disagree that healthcare is a right. I agree more with the HSA concept whereby you pay the initial XXX Dollars then the benefits kick in. To burden the rest of us with higher premiums and costs (because again, the reality is costs are being passed on) so that the masses can have costs associated with Heathcare can then be covered....and again, costs associated with that passed on isn't fair. You buy what type and level of insurance you can afford and I do the same. Together we each need to be accountable for our own bills. I pay taxes that go towards the fire department and police both are a type of insurance and a socialized system. Why should i pay for idiots who have houses that burn down??? My house hasn't burned down yet..... Yep and the taxes you pay aren't likely as high as mine so the system costs do vary based on where you live. I'm sure residents wouldn't want to have all the public system based taxes for Dublin, UA, New Albany or the costs to insure their homes and run their schools spread over the city of Columbus, Galloway and the Hiltop either. Just the same I'm not up to paying for their combined healthcare costs. I make the choice to pay to live where I do and insure my family well and that's a choice I make for my family. Let everyone else do the same to the best of their ability. Incomes vary as do the benefits that go with it. That's life man. The beauty of Capitalism is that everyone has a choice and a chance. Lowering the bar to accomodate those who make poor choices or choose not to work as smart as others isn't the answer. We need to teach accountability and responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Really your really saying i should not be able to own any toys??? because my wife is sick my life should be fucked.... wow I buy the best insurance which CHASE BANK offers I also put a large chunk of money into my HSA. I for one find it annoying that you would think I should not be able to enjoy life at all. WOW My second job is 100% for my own pleasure toys. I work my ass off to have some toys. I make a descent salary at my primary job so what gives..... What am I doing sooo wrong??? So your saying I should be a slave to medical bills????? Fuck that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Really your really saying i should not be able to own any toys??? because my wife is sick my life should be fucked.... wow I buy the best insurance which CHASE BANK offers I also put a large chunk of money into my HSA. I for one find it annoying that you would think I should not be able to enjoy life at all. WOW I'm saying that if you're in a situation where all that shit has happened to you and in you own words you're still worried that something more could happen because you're not prepared, then yes, I'm saying you should be coming to the greater public for funding your healthcare when you're worried about putting another turbo on a car or something to that effect. If you are in an HSA plan, great. You're responsible for the first how much? How much does Chase fund yearly? How much have you contributed? What's the reason you're in dire straights then? You were in a dual income family at one point right? Did you make a choice to spend both incomes on daily living? Was that your best option or do you think you had options that you might have gone differently if you had a chance? My second job is 100% for my own pleasure toys. I work my ass off to have some toys. I make a descent salary at my primary job so what gives..... What am I doing sooo wrong??? So your saying I should be a slave to medical bills????? Fuck that Bill, given your situation as you described to be spending any money on "toys" is NOT a good move nor something I'm ever going to condone is a good move when you in turn want more public assistance. SERIOUSLY? What role you play in getting yourself out of the situation you put yourself in? Nothing happened to you or your wife that you didn't have a chance to head off in terms of savings. Your medical bills are YES, YOUR BILLS man. Come on already. You honestly think you should be able to pass them off on others? This is exactly the reason why Obamacare is a bullshit plan that will do nothing to fix the real problem. By your own account you have a good job, make good money and have an HSA that's funded and your fully insured. So in the end you have bills that you don't think should interfear with your lifestyle as you know it? You do realize that it's going to take a plan to make that happen and a plan whereby you pay them down. I know you know all this and that in the mean time yeah, life isn't going to be all grandure and fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 HSA = pretax money I put back ~3-4grand MRA = Money chase gives me for performing certain activities ~1-2 Grand And when we were a 2 income family we lived off my income. When I got laid off my SAVINGS and tuning cars (pays ~ 33% of what I make now/then) kept me going for 18+ months. So obviously I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck. The problem is you and I have a fundemntally diffrent take on healthcare. I feel it should be a right and you feel it shouldn't be. I bet your tune would change if you were in my shoes.... For the record I've carried the best possible insuarnace available my entire professional careeer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 HSA = pretax money I put back ~3-4grand MRA = Money chase gives me for performing certain activities ~1-2 Grand And when we were a 2 income family we lived off my income. When I got laid off my SAVINGS and tuning cars (pays ~ 33% of what I make now/then) kept me going for 18+ months. So obviously I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck. okay, so your HSA funding was likely able to cover at least one year of out of pocket and then your insurance kicks in to a point where you were likely responsible for what 20% of the next $10k or so? then at some point you're likely covered 100%. That differences is what your continued HSA funding or savings is for. Yes, you have a responsibility for those bills and insurance picks up the rest. In the end, if you've lost what you said you have, then I'm sure you're well aware that somewhere along the way there were opportunities to save or protect your finances a bit more. The problem is you and I have a fundemntally diffrent take on healthcare. I feel it should be a right and you feel it shouldn't be. I bet your tune would change if you were in my shoes.... You're correct. Everyone paying everyone elses bills isn't what I feel we should have. I won't beat that dead horse. Especailly when everyone has a different idea on what a healthly lifestyle is. I certainly don't need people who earn below the poverty line, are overwieght, drug users or smokers on my tab. Just the same they don't want my bills either. My being in your shoes wouldn't change my mind. My beliefs aren't based on "my situaiton" they are what they are regardless. If my wife or I become ill here's what I know. 1. We have great insurance and have saved in our HSA plan for over 12 years 2. Our insurance and out of pocket are more than do-able for the next several yeras thanks to #1 3. We have savings, investments and cash safety nets that we've worked hard to put in place and sacraficed a lot to insure are there 4. Like you we have familiy as well 5. We accept responsbility for our finances and would immediately implliment a plan to attack the situtation. 6. We would be accountable for our actions and not expect life to roll along in the same lifestyle should a life changing event strike. You would be wrong if you think we haven't had them. My wife had a serious medical situation with the birth of our daughter and I too was released from a job. My daughter was also admited to Childrens hospital age 14 days old. Now I'm not saying something like surviving a serious battle with cancer wouldn't put a serious hurt on us or even evoke a red light plan on our part, but I can't worry about that right now knowing it could happen and crush us. I can instead do all I can to insure we are as prepared as we can be for everything else and in the event of the apocalypes on us, deal with it then. For the record I've carried the best possible insuarnace available my entire professional careeer. Perfect, but insurance is just that, a safety net policy but it can't be seen as your only means. You have a role too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 You're correct. Everyone paying everyone elses bills isn't what I feel we should have. I won't beat that dead horse. Especailly when everyone has a different idea on what a healthly lifestyle is. I certainly don't need people who earn below the poverty line, are overwieght, drug users or smokers on my tab. Just the same they don't want my bills either. Starting last December my workplace offered an optional biometric screening. You gave a blood sample and they screened it for a large number of factors, then you got an overall "health score." This December you can choose to do it again and if your score is above a 79 OR you have shown x points of improvement since last year you will pay a reduced premium. If you are below a 79, don't show imporvement, smoke, etc. you will have to pay a higher rate. Personally I like this, but I think I would prefer my old employers plan more. My old emplory had an HSA plan and they fund your HSA each year, almost covereing your entire deductable. Some of my co-workers have a lot saved up, which would come in handy. Even if I do the HSA plan at my current employer they won't fund your account at all. My point is, everyone's situation is different. All employers offer different levels of coverage to their employee's, some going far beyond the minimum. Saying that this bill will cause employers to offer less coverage is unfounded. Saying that you will have to pay a higher premium because of unhealthy people is not necessarily true either. In a sence, you already pay for those people now. There are some good things in this bill and it's clear that something needs to be done about health care costs in the US. I think the election will be interesting, seeing as how this was modeled off of Romney's Mass. health care he can't entirely trash talk it without making himself look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Starting last December my workplace offered an optional biometric screening. You gave a blood sample and they screened it for a large number of factors, then you got an overall "health score." This December you can choose to do it again and if your score is above a 79 OR you have shown x points of improvement since last year you will pay a reduced premium. If you are below a 79, don't show imporvement, smoke, etc. you will have to pay a higher rate. We have a health assessment like this too. 2010 and 2011 marked the two lowest years in our 56 year history that there were less claims than ever before from our nearly 4,000 employees. Those of us with the HSA have no premium. Standard plans will reach a 25% employee contribution for the premium in the next couple years. That's pretty standard across the board though. For a family of 4 on our best plan the premium is like $350 mo. Wife and I max out our HSA each year instead. Personally I like this, but I think I would prefer my old employers plan more. My old emplory had an HSA plan and they fund your HSA each year, almost covereing your entire deductable. Some of my co-workers have a lot saved up, which would come in handy. Even if I do the HSA plan at my current employer they won't fund your account at all. Our company offers two levels. I took the higher of the two whereby they put in $2,500 per year. It's moot really once you have the maximum OOP funded. We have that and then some on the card thus why I chose the higher amount. Saying that this bill will cause employers to offer less coverage is unfounded. Not really. I doubt our employer of 4k people is going to fund the cost of the same plans under the new rules as their costs are expected to go way up. They might but they instead could push everyone off to the state exchanges. So far we're okay for this year and next but after is what I'm concerned about. It's also a fact that Vision and Dental care for families if pushed to be bundled with healthcare on one plan will be far underutilized overall. Believe me, we are in vision care, so I know as I have access to the statistics coming from the 58M covered lives we have under our plans. THus consumers will do themselves a dis-service just by the nature of third party plans being pushed to be included under one umbrella. Believe me, the health plans want that as they want less utilization. I don't like to see that but it's likely goign to happen. Saying that you will have to pay a higher premium because of unhealthy people is not necessarily true either. In a sence, you already pay for those people now. Sure we pay for it now to an extent but it WILL increase premiums because as of Obama's plan Healthcare plans will be taking on more people at the far end of the spectrum of health. Again, even my company is doing the math at taking on the 8% of the population now sucking up welfare and what they will be doing to our claims. Yes, costs of premiums will be going up. Insurance companies aren't going to lose money on this plan for the sake of wellness for all. There are some good things in this bill and it's clear that something needs to be done about health care costs in the US. I think the election will be interesting, seeing as how this was modeled off of Romney's Mass. health care he can't entirely trash talk it without making himself look bad. There are some good points in the bill but overall, I don't like it. In the end, it spreads the pain to those that shouldn't have to bear it and does nothing to encourage those or insist those benefiting will do anything different other than go to the doctor more than they are now and in turn push the costs of doing so on us. Sure, they will get care, but the cause of their need for said care isn't being addressed, so daddy fat-ass who has diabeties will get treatment but change nothing about his lifestyle. Edited July 2, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Dude, you are so condescending. You know nothing about me; I was not the one with an issue. If either of us should do some drinking it's you, it might lubricate the stick in your ass. If you are like this in real life, I am telling you right now that everyone hates you; including your wife. So in post 129 you weren't clearly stating you were the one with the some issues? That's the post I'm directly part of my comments in my initial reply that got you riled up here to. Sorry but if you call some facts, questions and strong opinions on holding the 8% of this country you were so eager to point out accountable condenscending then you have some thin skin and low expectations of people on public assistance. Nice thoughts on my wife though. I'm sure she'd be glad to talk wiht you about her views on financial accoutability of people. You'd be in for an even more robust conversation than you're experiencing here. Buy a new pair of big-boy pants would be my advice. Until 3 months ago I was the VP of a national recruiting firm; a job I left because I now consult for multiple companies and am moving to our beach house on the gulf coast. My wife also works remotely as the marketing director for 2 national companies. The issue we faced would have destroyed you and the little impenetrable security blankey you love to brag about. Good for you and us and our collective accomplishments. So our epenis battle continues without a fuck being given by others here. In the end, you stated you had issues that could have changed your lives and you're mad that I insist you be accountable for those bills. Sorry, but your blanket was obviously rustled if it caused you to change your persepective. Your words not mine. Let me know if you're up for a oonversation around the follow up questions I posed to you; rhetorical posed but you could always field them head on. you pat yourself on the back for being miles ahead of others who started the race in a broken wheelchair. Describe for me who you're referncing starting off in a broken wheelchair. I'll stand by the fact that We all start out equal. Most even on CR didn't start off in a broken wheelchair. Everyone has choices that put them where they are and there are enough opportunities in this world for everyone so that none of them have to cry about where they come from. That woes me attitude has to stop man. Coddling people who are in that phase of life isn't going to get them anywhere. All that it's doing is insuring they stay there. To claim you were born into a shitty situation or that as of XX years ago you were good and then something that could have changed your life instead changed your persepective means the world should now come together in a collective bill pay is bullshit. Talking to you is like conversing with a 20 year old know it all who thinks they have the whole world figured out. Pride comes before a fall; I hope for your sake it is a plenty long while before you find that out. You are incorrect and likely not reading all my posts if you think I'm claiming to have it all figured out and haven't admited to failing before and likely to do so again in the future. I'm very glad to put plans in place that help those who help themselves, but to cover the butts of everyone as is being planned by Obama is failboat. Just look at the other systems and as I already mnetioned, costs of healthcare in Boston since 2006. Edited July 2, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 So in post 129 you weren't clearly stating you were the one with the some issues? No. Read it again. You apparently have no idea how insurance works. I guarantee you have a significant number of fat smokers on your companies PPO policy. Yes, they pay more but you certainly don't believe that they pay enough to cover their costs. They difference between what they put in vs. the amount they cost is mitigated by the healthy people that don't utilize their policies. Are you advocating for the elimination of PPO policies too since they "spread the wealth around". The mandate has far less to do with covering the poor than it does getting the "young immortals" into the pool. It is their low risk dollars that decrease the overall risk for the rest of the pool. If you were opposed to that I could understand more so that your disproportionate outrage for a few free riders. I guess I just don't really spend that much time thinking about gross things. I get that your family is significantly more exposed to that demographic with your wife's occupation.... when you're a hammer everything is a nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 No. Read it again. You apparently have no idea how insurance works. I guarantee you have a significant number of fat smokers on your companies PPO policy. Yes, they pay more but you certainly don't believe that they pay enough to cover their costs. They difference between what they put in vs. the amount they cost is mitigated by the healthy people that don't utilize their policies. Are you advocating for the elimination of PPO policies too since they "spread the wealth around". I know how insurance works, I work for an insurance company. In terms of what I'm advocating is to ditch bringing on the bottom 8% that you referenced and others who don't take the costs of their own healthcare to heart. This country needs to start making people using public assistance accountable for the costs associated with what's being provided to them. This program Obama has in mind is more of an expansion of welfare than healthcare. The mandate has far less to do with covering the poor than it does getting the "young immortals" into the pool. It is their low risk dollars that decrease the overall risk for the rest of the pool. If you were opposed to that I could understand more so that your disproportionate outrage for a few free riders. I know the intention is to bring the young immortals into the pool but the program in it's first few years is going to all but crush the smaller private insurance providers because those young immortals are not going to join up in the first couple years. It will be far cheaper for them to Opt out and pay the tax initially than buy the insurance. The insurance companies won't have premiums coming in from those that will never make the claim, which is what they need. Instead it will be that unemployed deadbeat with kids that now has exposure to more public assistance that will gladly take up the doctors time; hell, they're not going to pay for it so why not. If they want coverage, make them go high deductible at least. Otherwise they have zero skin in the game. In the mean time, the sick people now exposed to all this "coverage" will absolutely rape the system and the claims will eat the lunch of the providers. In turn rates will go up for the rest of us and the little providers....will go bye bye quickly. Combined with more free handouts the stage is set for rates to go up for all of use that are responsible. I guess I just don't really spend that much time thinking about gross things. I get that your family is significantly more exposed to that demographic with your wife's occupation.... when you're a hammer everything is a nail.My wife is a family and bankruptcy lawyer but she's not on the side of the creditors thus she's not the hammer, she's the one getting people out of the holes they create and hopefully but rarely helping them understand how to stay out of the next one. She can't fix their stupidity nor their indifference to being accountable for their own actions or financial irresponsibilities. This new plan isn't going to help the deadbeats or those that don't care change their ways either. The only way to do that is to force them be accountable for their own expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I know how insurance works, I work for an insurance company. In terms of what I'm advocating is to ditch bringing on the bottom 8% that you referenced and others who don't take the costs of their own healthcare to heart. This country needs to start making people using public assistance accountable for the costs associated with what's being provided to them. This program Obama has in mind is more of an expansion of welfare than healthcare. I know the intention is to bring the young immortals into the pool but the program in it's first few years is going to all but crush the smaller private insurance providers because those young immortals are not going to join up in the first couple years. It will be far cheaper for them to Opt out and pay the tax initially than buy the insurance. In the mean time, the sick people now exposed to all this "coverage" will absolutely rape the system and the claims will eat the lunch of the providers. In turn rates will go up for the rest of us and the little providers....will go bye bye quickly. Combined with more free handouts the stage is set for rates to go up for all of use that are responsible. My wife is a family and bankruptcy lawyer but she's not on the side of the creditors thus she's not the hammer, she's the one getting people out of the holes they create and hopefully but rarely helping them understand how to stay out of the next one. She can't fix their stupidity nor their indifference to being accountable for their own actions or financial irresponsibilities. I don't want to fight with you any more. Let's just be friends. Time will settle whether this law is good, bad or indifferent. One of us will get to come back to this thread in a few years and post "told ya so". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 P.S. This podcast talks about incentivized savings accounts; an idea that address the dumb savings rates of poor people with their irrational expectation of hitting it big. I think you'd dig it. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/461/take-the-money-and-run-for-office Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 So here is how I see this, I work for the state and they need to cut budget, I took a job that said I get x benefits plus salary. With this happening the state can now stop health INS for all of us, the penalty is less than our premiums. They show a net savings, the penalties go to fund Medicaid. I make too much to qualify for Medicaid, almost everyone does. Now I must completely pay for my own Health INS out of pocket and take home less money, or pay a penalty myself which again funds Medicaid that I do not qualify for. The kicker is also because I belong to a group of people that pay the same INS we get it a greatly reduced cost, now with the state not using UHC and just funding Medicaid (again which I don't qualify for) I am also forced to pay more than my employer paid for the same policy because I will purchase at the individual level, UHC will not keep a group together. They stand to make more money at the individual level. And if you think the private sector will not follow this, you are naive. The penalty is set up to be less than most premiums. This is the biggest factor of why this bill is garbage. The penalty should be 5x the premium so it would be a bad business decision for the company to not offer you the benefit of health INS as part of your salary. Right now as it stands it's a great business decision to drop millions from their plans and add money to the bottom line. The middle class gets fucked again and the fucking losers of the country get Health Care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I don't want to fight with you any more. Let's just be friends. Time will settle whether this law is good, bad or indifferent. One of us will get to come back to this thread in a few years and post "told ya so". Don't take my approach or posts as fighting. It's not personal. As you said, we don't know each other. We each have our strong viewpoints is all. I'm in the industry and have work in healthcare in some fashion my entire career and hate to see this type of stuff come down. The IRS is not the entity that should be running a state health insurance exchange. Hey, they already secured another "tax" for Uncle Sam, so job well done for them :dumb: Did you happen to see the 10TV Special last night talking about the demise of private insurance? Interesting and scarey true. This is not a long term viability plan for them. That's why the hospital stocks went up (becasuse, now they have 30M more customers headed their way) and the insurance companies stocks all went down....because they just took a kick in the nuts that is one step closer to spelling their demise. IMO, Obama care will create two separate plans and again, I'll let the medical practitioners here chime in. We are already hearing it from our providers. (again, I work in healthcare insurance). You'll have one tier of providers (doctors) that opts out of the entire Medicare, Medicaid and insurance bracket and you'll have groups of people like me that pay into a pool (aka private insurance buying group) to have complete access to the better doctors under a private health care out of pocket plan. This is where the good doctors who are in it to make money and provide quality care will be. Call it the group of "the haves" but as an edit, it will be more costly as Ben describes in his post below. Basically, 2-3-4x more than today for the same care. Proven again, just look at MA. since 2006. I said that like 20 posts ago. Then you'll have everyone else, the have-nots, waiting in lines along with all the people enjoying the handouts, for the bottom feeder doctors who are willing to take a Gov't based insurance and treat people like numbers; They will have to as in order to make money off what they will receive will be numbers driven. I just came back from a conference that was in motion when the decision came down and all the doctors there were talking about it. Like it or not, the lower half will now all be feeding among the welfare ridden and thus this is nothing more than an expansion of a program for handouts. Welcome to the welfare lines all you middle class suckers. Life is about to pull you down another couple notches in order to "Spread the Pain and spread your wealth" It's actually going to feel more like spread your butt cheeks. Cliffs: Those with money will go the other way to fund their own "Private Healthcare Buying Group" and again, the rest will enjoy what Canada and the UK See already.....shitty universal healthcare for all. You're right; book mark this thread. Unfortunately, I don't think it won't be a fun revisit in a couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) So here is how I see this, I work for the state and they need to cut budget, I took a job that said I get x benefits plus salary. With this happening the state can now stop health INS for all of us, the penalty is less than our premiums. They show a net savings, the penalties go to fund Medicaid. I make too much to qualify for Medicaid, almost everyone does. Now I must completely pay for my own Health INS out of pocket and take home less money, or pay a penalty myself which again funds Medicaid that I do not qualify for. The kicker is also because I belong to a group of people that pay the same INS we get it a greatly reduced cost, now with the state not using UHC and just funding Medicaid (again which I don't qualify for) I am also forced to pay more than my employer paid for the same policy because I will purchase at the individual level, UHC will not keep a group together. They stand to make more money at the individual level. And if you think the private sector will not follow this, you are naive. The penalty is set up to be less than most premiums. This is the biggest factor of why this bill is garbage. The penalty should be 5x the premium so it would be a bad business decision for the company to not offer you the benefit of health INS as part of your salary. Right now as it stands it's a great business decision to drop millions from their plans and add money to the bottom line. The middle class gets fucked again and the fucking losers of the country get Health Care. ^^ Thank you Ben! Man sees the light and understands the program. One would think you work in the field of medicine or insurance you understand it so well. Sad thing is that it's really not that hard to see but the masses out there see Obamacare just as they saw him, "with eyes wide shut" as the next coming of Christ. :dumb: If they could only understand what's headed their way. I oscillate from angry to scared to sad thinking about this shit. This country is so fucked up in some ways it's almost amazing that the enemies that hate us don't need to do a damn thing except sit back and let us implode on ourselves. I was never a Sarah Palin fan but the bitch is right on when it comes to her thoughts on care for the elderly. You watch, there's going to be a death plan headed our way as the costs caring for the masses of elderly coming down the pike will not at all be sustained under this new plan. 91 and need a new hip.....man will you pay out the ass. Better buy a new one of those too. If you don't die first and that will be if you're lucky. Sadly all this news makes the desire to live longer undesirable. Just spend all you've got and pick the date you want to die and make that happen. It will cost less, there won't be any pain in surprises, no suffering and who knows, they might even make a TV Show about it offering proceeds for staring on it to be sent back to your kids to fund their health plans. I'm going to via an airplane jump. Head first, top speed into where ever Obama is at the time. Edited July 2, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshymkiw83 Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just to add something.... All "Tax bills" must be started in the House of Representatives. This was started in the Senate, as a purchase plan. Since the Supreme Court ruled it as a Tax, not a Fine/Purchase, that would mean technically it has no Constitutional Grounds to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrblunt Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 In the ExplainLikeI'mFive forum on Reddit. It shows what is already in affect and what happens in the future with citations to the actual bill - http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm There is a good post in there from a physician that explains the quality of care compensation they can expect under the changes. Its a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshymkiw83 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 In the ExplainLikeI'mFive forum on Reddit. It shows what is already in affect and what happens in the future with citations to the actual bill - http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm There is a good post in there from a physician that explains the quality of care compensation they can expect under the changes. Its a good read. I haven't read that link yet, but was talking to a Doctor who plays on our Soccer Team. He was very agitated at what was being put in place. He said his medical coding system is going to go from 200-400 Codes, to over 800 codes. Which means his time until he gets paid will be longer if something is coded invalid. He was also saying Women can't get mamograms until over the age of 50, but that 75% of the cancer cases he diagnoses, are women under 50, for breast cancer. He went on to explain several other things, and basically saying in the end, this puts small/private practices out of business, as the administrative costs alone are going to be too high. As well as the care people will be receiving is actually below the current standard of care, solely due to the panels that will be appointed who get to pick and chose where the money is spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted July 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I haven't read that link yet, but was talking to a Doctor who plays on our Soccer Team. He was very agitated at what was being put in place. He said his medical coding system is going to go from 200-400 Codes, to over 800 codes. Which means his time until he gets paid will be longer if something is coded invalid. He was also saying Women can't get mamograms until over the age of 50, but that 75% of the cancer cases he diagnoses, are women under 50, for breast cancer. He went on to explain several other things, and basically saying in the end, this puts small/private practices out of business, as the administrative costs alone are going to be too high. As well as the care people will be receiving is actually below the current standard of care, solely due to the panels that will be appointed who get to pick and chose where the money is spent. Those are just facts, please stop posting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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