Obamacare Stands

[iwishiwascool]

Yeah I don't care to go down the "helping poor people route" of liberal activism. I hate poor/lazy/fat people as much or more than the next guy.

 

I think the right could do a better job at keeping their outrage in proportion:

-Only 1.7% of people derive more than 50% of their income from government assistance (Does not include Medicare). It's less than 8% if you include any assistance.

-This represents ~2% of the overall budget.

-93% of welfare fraud is committed by vendors, not recipients.

 

If I subscribed to the beliefs within the email chain letters sent to me by every elderly person I've ever met I'd think we were being overrun with poor people. I find it silly to base your entire political paradigm on what effectively represents anecdotal experiences and not the statistical reality.

 

Corporate subsidies represent almost double that dedicated to social welfare programs. Where is your outrage about those?

 

So when your argument is "but what about all the moochers, let's try to keep reality in perspective.

[TTQ B4U]

Yeah I don't care to go down the "helping poor people route" of liberal activism. I hate poor/lazy/fat people as much or more than the next guy.

 

I think the right could do a better job at keeping their outrage in proportion:

-Only 1.7% of people derive more than 50% of their income from government assistance (Does not include Medicare). It's less than 8% if you include any assistance.

-This represents ~2% of the overall budget.

-93% of welfare fraud is committed by vendors, not recipients.

 

My outrage is in proportion. The damage to the economy that this bill is inflicting and the hurt it's putting on our medical providers and costs that are impacting me and the other tax payers is HUGE! All for the above mentioned 8% of the people that will now continue to be an even more costly burden to the rest of us and STILL NOT be accountable for their own selves! Such bullshit must stop.

 

If I subscribed to the beliefs within the email chain letters sent to me by every elderly person I've ever met I'd think we were being overrun with poor people.

 

I look at facts man. The facts here show nearly 10% of the US are freeloading off the rest of us and yes, that is big. it's causing the middle class to slip even further and lowers the bar overall. Bullshit. That 10% cause way more trouble and hurt in this country. It's not just about the number of people but the cumulative impact of the costs they out on all of us. Proportionately speaking they cost us way more than the average family like mine that is responsible and accountable.

 

I find it silly to base your entire political paradigm on what effectively represents anecdotal experiences and not the statistical reality.

 

Tell that to Obama and the sheep following him. His whole campaign is resting on this. It's not anecdotal is fact and pure bullshit. Raise the fucking bar already and quite making handouts so easy to obtain and putting the costs on all of us.

 

Corporate subsidies represent almost double that dedicated to social welfare programs. Where is your outrage about those?

 

Start a new thread. This is about Healthcare moochers.

 

So when your argument is "but what about all the moochers, let's try to keep reality in perspective.

 

I think I've given you plenty of perspective using your own ask.com provided statistics. Fucking outrageous costs to support the 8% of the welfare mongrels that needed to be forced to pay for their own care.

[iwishiwascool]

Still waiting to hear why this is so great. CNN has a story about home some of the poor will be left out in the cold on this, thought this was supposed to help them, or just some of them?

 

All these new great taxes make sense too, again I think I remember hearing about some people that revolted against taxes a while back...

 

Case 1.)

Let's say you lost your job, maybe your wife did at the same time. Hypothetically speaking (I don't know that I've met you) your BMI is 30 and your wife had a minor treatment for ovarian cysts or cervical pre-cancer or something. When your COBRA runs out and you attempt to get a plan on the open market you will find that if you can get coverage it will cost thousands per month. You simply cannot afford it. You have a minor heart attack and spend 5 days at Riverside. You are now bankrupt and the rest of CR is paying for your hospital visit.

 

 

Case 2.)

Let's say you and your wife are 1099 employees, your total household income is around 100k. Let's use the couple above, what percentage of their income do you think will be dedicated to health insurance?

 

Case 3.) You are a good card carrying insurance holder. Let's say you get cancer, your insurance helped cover most issues; you recover. You never let your insurance lapse (because you know that would mean never being insured again). 3 years later the cancer comes back. The lifetime limit on your policy is a fairly standard 1M. This round of treatment puts you over the mark and you are not fully responsible for coverage. No additional treatment will be provided until you pay up. When you become acute and eventually need emergency care I and the rest of the taxpayers then absorb your costs.

 

Sometimes personal responsibility is just not an affordable proposition, even to the most responsible of citizens. You can believe that we should let the above people rot like third world countries do, but I believe this nation is better than that.

 

I don't believe we need to give free handouts; that is not what healthcare reform is about. It is about demanding personal responsibility and punishing your stupid ass if you reject it... in a way that doesn't leave you dead and your family bankrupt. Getting everyone into the pool lowers overall risk and reduces the aggregate cost to insure each individual.

 

We simply cannot fix all of the things that are fucking awful about insurance carriers without getting everyone in the pool OR creating a single payer system. The only alternative is the "let them rot" solution posted before.

 

This bill is not nearly perfect, not by a long shot but it may well very likely save someone in your life who faces a tragedy after doing everything "right".

[iwishiwascool]

My outrage is in proportion.

 

I hope that you are never in a position to understand first hand the perils of the system as it was. I did and it changed my perspective. My six figure income and fully funded PPO did not keep my family from almost becoming a victim of the realities the system. Had a single test come back with a different result my life would be very different right now.

 

I'll leave it at that.

[TTQ B4U]

Case 1.)

Let's say you lost your job, maybe your wife did at the same time. Hypothetically speaking (I don't know that I've met you) your BMI is 30 and your wife had a minor treatment for ovarian cysts or cervical pre-cancer or something. When your COBRA runs out and you attempt to get a plan on the open market you will find that if you can get coverage it will cost thousands per month. You simply cannot afford it. You have a minor heart attack and spend 5 days at Riverside. You are now bankrupt and the rest of CR is paying for your hospital visit.

 

Great touching examples but in the end under this new bill and all the billions that it's costing us, CR is still paying for it and the medical system is now even more fucked up.

 

I don't believe we need to give free handouts; that is not what healthcare reform is about. It is about demanding personal responsibility and punishing your stupid ass if you reject it... in a way that doesn't leave you dead and your family bankrupt

.

 

At a cost to everyone else though.

 

Getting everyone into the pool lowers overall risk and reduces the aggregate cost to insure each individual.

 

No it doesn't lower costs. Do you honestly think insurance companies who now are going to have to cover 220lb lazy ass unemployed moms with 6 kids and no husband are going to do so for free? We will pay that cost. Thanks. I can't wait to support that 8%.

[TTQ B4U]

I hope that you are never in a position to understand first hand the perils of the system as it was. I did and it changed my perspective. My six figure income and fully funded PPO did not keep my family from almost becoming a victim of the realities the system. Had a single test come back with a different result my life would be very different right now.

 

I'll leave it at that.

 

You don't know that I haven't nor the details about my brother who went from a similar situation to his death after a 12 yr battle with cancer. I know the details of what you speak. I do. I also know the costs involved and the personal struggles that go with it.

 

That said I never said I wasn't empathetic. I am however ver staunch on my belief for people to be accountable for themselves first and to be a part of the plan that will enable them as the move forward.

 

My families situation is by no means bulletproof, but we have plans and safety nets of our own and it has taken sacrifice and hard work that I don't see the majority of others doing. I'm sorry but here to my expectations are high and I by no means am holding others to expectations I don't hold myself to.

 

The monies being spent on this plan would be way better spent on education reform. It starts by teaching others to support themselves. Not by providing a system that provides better support for them.

 

Will there be casualties along the way? You bet, but this bullshit reform headed our way is going to cause a lot more.

[iwishiwascool]

You don't know that I haven't nor the details about my brother who went from a similar situation to his death after a 12 yr battle with cancer. I know the details of what you speak. I do. I also know the costs involved and the personal struggles that go with it.

 

That said I never said I wasn't empathetic. I am however ver staunch on my belief for people to be accountable for themselves first and to be a part of the plan that will enable them as the move forward.

 

My families situation is by no means bulletproof, but we have plans and safety nets of our own and it has taken sacrifice and hard work that I don't see the majority of others doing. I'm sorry but here to my expectations are high and I by no means am holding others to expectations I don't hold myself to.

 

You obviously have a lot of emotion invested in your viewpoint and you are entitled to it. The "let them rot" mentality is that of third world nations and I believe we, as a civilization, are better than that. This is a fundamental difference that we will never agree on. So it goes.

 

It is easy to see the world it black and white; it simplifies the complex, shrinking it into tiny little bumper-sticker slogans. It is a luxury to never have to consider the unintended consequences. I suspect one sleeps easier at night believing all answers are either ones or a zeros.

[coltboostin]

How is what I said taking away freedoms? People are free to do what they like. That's why I put the last statement in my post. It's about choices and accountability. You want to eat like shit and be fat then pay more for healthcare and own up to being accountable to how you live. I shouldn't have to pay for it.

 

Which they will though their insurance.

 

 

So far, sounds like the plan is working....

[coltboostin]

You don't know that I haven't nor the details about my brother who went from a similar situation to his death after a 12 yr battle with cancer. I know the details of what you speak. I do. I also know the costs involved and the personal struggles that go with it.

.

 

Sorry to hear-but it brings up an interesting point.

 

Who paid for it? Was it all paid for during his treatment, and/or after his passing?

[TTQ B4U]

You obviously have a lot of emotion invested in your viewpoint and you are entitled to it. The "let them rot" mentality is that of third world nations and I believe we, as a civilization, are better than that. This is a fundamental difference that we will never agree on. So it goes.

 

Emotion, no, not really. I do look at it as a financial situation and business plan vs an emotional event. In thats what results. I just have a pretty strong opinion on how the business plans or lack there of for so many then in turn cause thier financial situation to take a shit and in turn that burdon gets put on the rest of us.

 

It is easy to see the world it black and white; it simplifies the complex, shrinking it into tiny little bumper-sticker slogans. It is a luxury to never have to consider the unintended consequences. I suspect one sleeps easier at night believing all answers are either ones or a zeros.

 

It is black And white. It's money and financial responsibility or lack of. Don't turnit into shades of gray filled with emotion about people that need to rise up and fight for thier own self. You can't save the world or in t his case the 8%'ers and push that off on those t hat have done what they need to do. Leave that to thier family, church and charities. What's left and not covered is thier responsibility. Knock knock on their door comes reality. Time for people to face it and deal with it. I do everyday and do sleep well knowing that my expectations are equal to what I expect of others.

[TTQ B4U]

Which they will though their insurance.

 

You're failing to see that "through their insurance" means through premiums that then we will ALL end up fronting. I don't need the poorest and likely the most unhealthy 8% of the US piling on their issues to MY premiums. In the end they cost the rest of us money. Again all part of Obama spreading the pain and sucking up my earnings to cover those on welfare.

 

So far, sounds like the plan is working....

 

Yep, the financial situation of the US continues to suck ass more each day.

[TTQ B4U]

Sorry to hear-but it brings up an interesting point.

 

Who paid for it? Was it all paid for during his treatment, and/or after his passing?

 

Insurance both primary and secondary covered the majority of it but my parents paid for his treatments and meds and essentially the rest of his needs. His wife pussied out and left him. His two three kids stood by him though. It was very costly yes but family came together and yes my parents financial plan worked. It's in fact covering them now as they go through struggles too.

[Dr. Apex]

It starts by teaching others to support themselves. Not by providing a system that provides better support for them.

 

Possibly the most intelligent thing I've heard anyone say on this board, bravo!!

[Scotty2Hotty]

 

All these new great taxes make sense too, again I think I remember hearing about some people that revolted against taxes a while back...

 

I stated that earlier Mr.Wagner, and was chastised as "starting a revolt". Can't wait for more taxes on top of the 30% hit I take on my commission bonus.

[coltboostin]

You're failing to see that "through their insurance" means through premiums that then we will ALL end up fronting. I don't need the poorest and likely the most unhealthy 8% of the US piling on their issues to MY premiums.

 

Oh, I see it. I also understand that it like all things involving a variety-is going to be baised on an average. Although them paying out more for less healthy people bumps up my rates, the already unhealthy people ALREADY pay a much higher rate. It is what it is, and they still have to be covered.

 

Consider auto insurance. Would you rather you have cheap insurance and bad drivers be uninsured-or you pay a little more, have the poor drivers paya TON more, and have the state mandate that ALL drivers be insured?

 

 

Insurance both primary and secondary covered the majority . It's in fact covering them now as they go through struggles too.

 

So, this insurance you feel should only be afforted to the most fit , was used to pay may hundereds of thousands, if not mroe for your own brother? Are you bothered that THAT senario also uped your premiums?

 

As for after his passing-I am assuming you had a term life plan on him?

 

Not to be a dick, but his death (this is your angle I am working) bumped up my term life plan, since his was paid out. So should I be upset that your brother died?

 

I have lost family to long battles with disease-battles that would have been much shorter if we had to pay out of pocket for new, pioneering treatments. And that I will gladdly pay my share for.

[TTQ B4U]

Oh, I see it. I also understand that it like all things involving a variety-is going to be baised on an average. Although them paying out more for less healthy people bumps up my rates, the already unhealthy people ALREADY pay a much higher rate. It is what it is, and they still have to be covered.

 

We can agree that it's great to have everyone covered. We disagree on the fact that I don't want their poor financial situation and health to burden my costs. Lump them together in their own plan and make them responsible for funding it or paying for it over time and become responsible for their own healthcare spending. Again, I don't need some broke-dick people and their shitty lifestyle impacting my premiums.

 

For the past 11 years I've been on a high deductible HSA and love it. I have ZERO premium and contribute money to my HSA in place of pissing away a premium like most everyone else. It's MY Money and I manage my care. Most I'm out of pocket is $4k and every year my employer adds $2k to my HSA for me. Over the past decade the wife and I have accumulated a very, very nice savings on that card to cover our costs.

 

Not everyone can afford our plan and I like it that way. That's why my employer is able to offer it to us with a ZERO premium. Users of these plans have far less claims, are way more responsible for our health and healthcare spending, marked by the fact that we we pay the first $2k per year out of our pocket (except for wellness) and as discussed that results in great benefits/premiums. Toss in the bottom 8% and my benefits of all that go out the window to cover them. No thanks.

 

Consider auto insurance. Would you rather you have cheap insurance and bad drivers be uninsured-or you pay a little more, have the poor drivers paya TON more, and have the state mandate that ALL drivers be insured?

First, this heathcare bill isn't going to have the poor or currently uninsured by choice pay a TON more, it puts their cost burden on me. Obamacare is going to result also in EVERYONE getting a lower quality of care and to wait weeks for specialized services. I'll let Kirk chime in if you're not familiar with why. Again, I've lived / worked in Canada and seen the system in action. It sucks.

 

Obamacare is also going to tax me more in a number of other ways to fund the costs involved. Bullshit. I'd rather have the system of today than flip the bill for everyone else and let the gov't try and run it. They can't effectively do what it is they have in front of them let alone the healthcare and insurance system.

 

So, this insurance you feel should only be afforded to the most fit , was used to pay may hundreds of thousands, if not more for your own brother? Are you bothered that THAT scenario also upped your premiums?

I'm not bothered at all as he paid his premiums himself, they weren't funded by the taxpayers around him. Again, he was responsible and accountable for both his premiums and out of pocket expenses. Obamacare encourages nor requires either. Bullshit.

 

The result of his care and expenses does add to the increased premiums of everyone, that is natural, but again, those who are paying the premiums themselves and using the services in return are getting what they rightfully paid to have.

 

Obamacare is going to mandate that companies either pay the way or that collectively the taxpayers fund the premiums for others to have coverage they've never had before. Bottom line is the state exchanges aren't going to have rates that are lower than today, they aren't adding doctors/choices to the panel either. Look at Massachusetts since 2006, rates have gone up 20-40-60% under a plan that's very similar. Wagner is right, bend over because all of us are about to get fucked to support those you feel "still have to be covered". Again, no thanks!

 

As for after his passing-I am assuming you had a term life plan on him?

A very, very small term plan through his employer. However, no, my family and even my wife and I have an investment plan of our own for such situations. Term is cheap and covers a relatively small amount in the grand scheme, but my family from father down is of the philosophy that you build your own self funded life insurance policy through investments and will be way better off for it in the end. We are secure there. Read up on http://www.daveramsey.com and you'll get the gist of what the plan we follow is.

 

Again, more people need to be taught the right way to do things that are not only more financially sound but hold them accountable and don't impact others when exercised. Obamacare doesn't encourage, require nor imply that is the way to go either.

 

Not to be a dick, but his death (this is your angle I am working) bumped up my term life plan, since his was paid out. So should I be upset that your brother died?

Again, no, our family has a self insured program and has invested in it since my mother and father got married in the 50's. My parents saved and invested to insure me and my 3 siblings would be in good shape. My brother's costs were covered by that plan and the investments which made up his portion. The wife and I created and have followed the same plan since the early 90's and have since expanded our plan to include life insurance coverage for our own kids.

 

I have lost family to long battles with disease-battles that would have been much shorter if we had to pay out of pocket for new, pioneering treatments. And that I will gladly pay my share for.

We have all lost loved ones to battles that wore down their health. To your last statement, I'm right there with you. I'd gladly pay my share for my family and am glad you would do the same for your family. The difference however, is I'm not at all interested in paying part of a premium for the 29M people on welfare. They need to get a job and start doing what my family and many others have done and that is pay their own share. The scale and amounts may be different, but as long as they pay their share and work a plan, I'm fine with them.

 

We don't need healthcare reform, we need education reform and a focus on reforming the people sucking money out of our system. If you don't fix the source of the pain, the disease will never go away. Obamacare doesn't fix the source of the pain.

 

I hope the above makes sense 'cause that's a lot of fucking words ain't it :gabe:

[TTQ B4U]

Case 1.)

Let's say you lost your job, maybe your wife did at the same time. Hypothetically speaking (I don't know that I've met you) your BMI is 30 and your wife had a minor treatment for ovarian cysts or cervical pre-cancer or something. When your COBRA runs out and you attempt to get a plan on the open market you will find that if you can get coverage it will cost thousands per month. You simply cannot afford it. You have a minor heart attack and spend 5 days at Riverside. You are now bankrupt and the rest of CR is paying for your hospital visit.

 

Federal law does not permit a pre-existing condition exclusionary period of more than 18 months so it's not like under today's standards you'd be screwed. In fact state laws often shorten this period. You'd have to check with Ohio's insurance commissioner to see what the details are.

 

If you kept your premium, my guess is they would use the Creditable Coverage policy to reduce or all but eliminate the pre-existing condition exclusionary period under your new policy.

 

Many group employer policies (particularly those issued to large employers) don't impose a pre-ex period for new employees, as long as you enroll right after you begin employment. That will vary based on the contract with the employer.

 

Case 2.)

Let's say you and your wife are 1099 employees, your total household income is around 100k. Let's use the couple above, what percentage of their income do you think will be dedicated to health insurance?

depends on a lot of variables on how they set up the coverage. if both spouses are 1099's, they should be budgeting accordingly I hope. key to any dual income household is to live off only one income. the other should be used for investments, retirements and safety nets. doing otherwise is a huge risk IMO.

 

Sometimes personal responsibility is just not an affordable proposition, even to the most responsible of citizens. You can believe that we should let the above people rot like third world countries do, but I believe this nation is better than that.

I completely disagree with you. If a family budgets and plans their finances correctly, they shouldn't be a burden to themselves in situations of dire straights. Again, way too many people fail to plan and fail to save for life changing events like health situations and that's what needs fixed. We need to stop throwing money at support programs and instead teach others to support themselves. It won't resolve all things overnight but how fast it does resolve things isn't up to the rest of the tax payers, it's up to those that it impacts.

 

Getting everyone into the pool lowers overall risk and reduces the aggregate cost to insure each individual.

Be Obama, spread the pain and redistribute wealth.

[iwishiwascool]

You were born on third and think you hit a tripple.

 

You come accross like you've got the world all figured out. Really though you look at the world and say how it aught to work while ignoring how it actually does.

 

You should be proud of yourself for the security you've created; you obviously are. But don't pretend that everyone is dealt the same hand. Life doesnt happen in a vaccumm. Don't ever forget that some who you disparage would have played your particular hand even better than you have.

[JaSSon]

Disclaimer: thread was TL:DR.

 

Obamacare did away with the preexisting condition clauses in health care. (Which i believe is a good thing) This essentially means people could cheat the system by not carrying health insurance until they get seriously ill, then sign up and be covered. Insurance Co.s would have to cover those expenses somehow... By raising rates for the responsible amongst us.

 

In order to avoid that, everyone has to have it full time. It's either that, or completely repeal the healthcare reform.

[copperhead]

So-take away Freedoms from people whom you feel don't deserve it because they are at a lower Median income than yourself?

 

Right. Got it.

 

The Constitution grants the right of the pursuit of happiness - not the right to happiness

[Green Bastard]

I have but a couple opinions. First, obama care has some good points, like manditory acceptance of pre-existing conditions and everybody is covered. I think they should do something like FDR did to pull us out of the great depression though, and that is create jobs so people have work. God knows our highway system needs work. Make it manditory that people recieving government assistance be put to work on one of such jobs.

 

Another opinion is that tim is right about overhauling the educational system. People need to learn at a young age that as an adult they will need to fend for themselves, that nothing in this world is truely free.

 

And my last opinions is about government. While slightly off topic, our government needs to be replaced by some people from the working class who know how to balance a checkbook. I think its kinda excessive that every last thing is paid for for them and they still get a paycheck. I once heard they get 30k a year for a drink budget. If thats true, then its very wasteful.

[thorne]

I lol at idiots who claim canada's healthcare is XYZ.... Since I know people who live in Canada and they have told me time and time again how there Hc system is not bad at all and the "Wait times" are no worse then they are in america. Actually better in some cases.

[TTQ B4U]

 

You come accross like you've got the world all figured out. Really though you look at the world and say how it aught to work while ignoring how it actually does.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like the slight confidence I've injected. I've amplified it purposely. In return I don't appreciate the similar injection you provide where the people of this country need to have handouts provided on order to succeed and lean on excuses all day.

 

You're right I do look at things in terms of how the world aught to work. I'm a firm believer in things happen because of me and my actions vs the whiners of the world who sit back and cry about what's happening to them. I'm not ignoring anything, I just believe its time to face reality and that everyone as a country and a people need to get back to making things happen instead of waiting for it to happen or for govt programs to pay their way.

 

You should be proud of yourself for the security you've created; you obviously are. But don't pretend that everyone is dealt the same hand. Life doesnt happen in a vaccumm. Don't ever forget that some who you disparage would have played your particular hand even better than you have.

Everyone has a chance man. The wife and a married at age 19 And didn't have squat. Two people in school living in a studio apartment together. I'm sorry if you feel your hand was different. Newsflash, that's life and everyone has to make the most of what we have. Doesn't mean you fold your hand and accept a crappy life and say "well that's just what I was dealt" Perhaps that's your way of it but not ours.

 

We bust ass and work hard and yes we fail too. I'm sure others could have capitalized even more than we have given our situation. Many others have done even more with far less. We know that. However we continue to focus on our goals and not worry about the guy next door. There's always someone faster as they say.

 

All that said, Obamacare still sets the bar low and forces the spreading of wealth and pain. The reality as you call it is that will NOT help the people of this country become better. It will simple force us all to pay for their woes in life as they continue to just suck air with govt and people paying thier way and keeping them alive. It's time the live, contribute back and realize choices they make create the bed they have to sleep in.

Edited June 30, 2012 by TTQ B4U

[TTQ B4U]

I lol at idiots who claim canada's healthcare is XYZ.... Since I know people who live in Canada and they have told me time and time again how there Hc system is not bad at all and the "Wait times" are no worse then they are in america. Actually better in some cases.

 

I lived there Bill. Yes I have a perspective. However there are people everywhere who feel Appplebees is the shit when it comes to great food. The system works but sucks for the majority of folks above the median line of success. It's built for those below it. Not a recipe for what I would call success.

 

I watched coworkers unlucky enough to be a part of that system get some pretty shitty doctors that they had to wait a long time to see. Sure, a simple clinic visit for a sinus infection isn't months out, but there's a reason why you don't hear of too many people around the world going to Canada for heart surgery or transplants. Their system pays for meritocracy and delivers it in a less than average way. But hey, at least the poor will live longer and the taxes that fund their system fuck the general population in a fair and uniform way.

 

Don't believe me on wait times, just do some web browsing on how it's a major discussion point during their elections. Here's a screen shot of real time data for a simple Tonsillectomy. All Providences have web sites set up for such searches because the problem of waiting lists is so bad.

 

Here's the wait time list as of today. Have fun eating for the next 3-6 months. Dental care is 10x worse. My coworkers hated that I could go back to the states, get a cleaning and if I needed a follow up filling done my wait was perhaps 1-2 days or even same day.

 

 

http://www.pbase.com/timothylauro/image/144412258/original.jpg

Edited June 30, 2012 by TTQ B4U

[TTQ B4U]

I hope that you are never in a position to understand first hand the perils of the system as it was. I did and it changed my perspective. My six figure income and fully funded PPO did not keep my family from almost becoming a victim of the realities the system. Had a single test come back with a different result my life would be very different right now. I'll leave it at that.

 

I empathize with what you went through, but I hope in terms of changing your perspective it has since changed the way you live, save and spend so that YOU can take control of even the bad situations. Hopefully the Vodka you joked about drinking while posting isn't negatively impacting whatever ailed you. Either way, that's your choice.

 

Regarding your income? (rhetorical questions)

- How much of it have you saved for the rainy day or in this case, the perfect storm?

- Is your family prepared to survive on one income? If not, why not?

- What in your situation didn't work that put you on the edge?

 

There are people on this board with more money in their car(s) than they have in cash savings. That's their choice. I also see hourly wage workers driving 300M's with 22's on them. Their choice.

 

I'm sorry, I can only empathize but nothing more for people in such situations who chose not to work their own personal plan to fund the perfect storm. I also don't feel I should have to pay for anything when it hits them either. They own the car and the fancy wheels and the debt that comes with said storm. Let them carry it with them and pay it off. I'm way more in support of helping those that help themselves. The rest have to pay up or yes, suffer.

 

It is a luxury to never have to consider the unintended consequences.

 

^^ take that bad and reword it, it's poverty in the making to never consider planning for unintended consequences. It's also bad business and honestly completely unfair to expect everyone else in the world to pay for those that choose to not do it.

 

Case 2.)

Let's say you and your wife are 1099 employees, your total household income is around 100k. Let's use the couple above, what percentage of their income do you think will be dedicated to health insurance?

 

The real question becomes in such a situation, how much of their income are they saving and do they have a plan to live on just one?

 

Sometimes personal responsibility is just not an affordable proposition, even to the most responsible of citizens. You can believe that we should let the above people rot like third world countries do, but I believe this nation is better than that.

Bullshit. My wife does bankruptcy as part of her law practice and I've heard and seen the worst and in EVERY case there was an opportunity to plan and work to become better. Yes, they were responsible citizens but many chose to squander money and not advance their own careers or stretch their personal goals. I'm sorry but life isn't all about what happens to you.

 

Unfortunately some did have some major medical situations crash down upon them, but that doesn't negate the fact that the last 20 years of their life were spent not planning for it. They lived for the present not worrying about the future and came to her to let our broken system bail them out and 99.9% don't feel they should pay for any of it. It's about education reform, not health care reform.

 

This bill is not nearly perfect, not by a long shot but it may well very likely save someone in your life who faces a tragedy after doing everything "right".

The parts of this bill that I'm pissed with aren't what would help Mr. and Mrs. Smith in Westerville who have life changing event that even their plans couldn't handle. We can address that without incurring costs for the 8% of the welfare mongers that will cost us far more than helping someone who has shown a plan to help themselves.

 

You're right, the bill isn't all bad, but it's costs and funding weren't thought through and the goals of the program go to help those that don't even try to help themselves. That's bullshit.

 

You were born on third and think you hit a tripple.

 

Yeah, you're right, it would be much better to think I was born in a leap year and it's everyone around me who have the responsibility to fund my insurance premiums and care for my kids that I can't afford and shouldn't have had to begin with. Not to mention pay for my rent because I'm too lazy to keep a job and actually work, or heaven forbid, go back to school or learn a skill that would in turn pay me more so that I can dig out of the hole I created for myself.