Should people who receive welfare be forced to undergo mandatory sterilization?

[mjrsplat]

should people who post on cr first take an IQ test?

 

 

 

 

 

I vote no because a forum with seven people wouldn't be much fun.

 

I bet you're thinking you'd be one of those lucky seven. :dumb:

[Not Brian]

I bet you're thinking I wouldn't :dumb:

[El Karacho1647545492]

Easy fix don't reimburse them.

 

My brain hurts from trying to comprehend your thinking, so I'm just going to pretend you actually understand why people need welfare and you're just trolling.

[sol740]

We should stop stealing from taxpayers to give handouts to people who do nothing but drain from society. Then we won't have to discuss such preposterously unconstitutional, and morally incomprehensible "solutions" like forced sterilization.

[RedRocket1647545505]

In Florida this was shown to be extremely costly to taxpayers. Fewer than 3% of welfare recipients ended up being denied welfare due to failed drug tests, and the state had to reimburse those who passed the tests. It ended up costing the state significantly more to reimburse people than they saved by denying benefits to drug users.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0

 

I understand the concept and the purpose of denying benefits to drug users, but this is obviously not a cost-effective way of doing it.

 

 

 

As for sterilization, everyone should be sterilized in a reversible fashion at birth or in youth. When you reach 18, you must pass a test. That test would include things like:

 

-drug screen

-how to develop and stick to a budget

-understanding credit cards and debt

-how to care for a child

-are you employed/employable?

-mental fitness test

 

if you're able to meet a certain baseline, congrats! you can reproduce.

 

Viability of vasectomy reversal tapers off ~5yr s/p vasectomy.

[Lauren]

instead of drug testing, welfare should be based off of how well the children do in school, if they are not causing problems(in juvenile court) etc.

 

they would have to step up and be responsible partners and make sure their (unwanted?)children are atleast getting an education and staying out of trouble. if they go to jail or fail in school goodbye benefits.

[AC66Bronco]

My brain hurts from trying to comprehend your thinking, so I'm just going to pretend you actually understand why people need welfare and you're just trolling.

 

Not really. If you want to qualify for welfare part of the process is to pay for your own drug test which you won't be reimbursed for at a facility designated by the state.

[AWW$HEEET]

We should stop stealing from taxpayers to give handouts to people who do nothing but drain from society. Then we won't have to discuss such preposterously unconstitutional, and morally incomprehensible "solutions" like forced sterilization.

 

A+

 

Don't sterilize people, just end entitlements and let all the idiots die off on their own.

[El Karacho1647545492]

A+

 

Don't sterilize people, just end entitlements and let all the idiots die off on their own.

 

You realize a majority of people living on "entitlements" are 40 years older than you, right?

 

EDIT: per wiki, SS keeps roughly 40% of Americans 65 or older out of poverty. I know my parents have enough saved to not need it. How many of you here would be willing and able to fully support your parents should their SS, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits expire, and they not have enough savings to take care of their rising medical costs? Without my parents savings, I know for a fact my sister and I would be completely unable to provide for them.

[Orion]

I bet you're thinking you'd be one of those lucky seven. :dumb:

 

I bet you're thinking I wouldn't :dumb:

 

 

I bet both you guys would have fun arguing about that on a RaceClub.com. :dumb:

[sol740]

Our parents and grandparents should depend on themselves, their kids, and families for support and not society at large. We should be teaching responsibility for oneself, and not to expect handouts from anyone. At the same time the government should not be stealing 30% of our incomes and then providing a solution to the problem it creates. Our parents and grandparents grew this monster and now we are going to fix the problems, or kick the can down the road and let our kids and grandkids pay for our stupidity.

[2pointslow]

So you're advocating population control through mandatory abortion? That's probably the best solution. "We could just cut off your assistance and force you to work and pay your own bills, but instead we're just going to kill your unborn children for the next year and then sterilize you."

 

:dumb:

 

 

How is that dumb? If you need to rely on the government to pay your bills then you don't need to have kids. I know thats probably hard for you to understand. Yes, abortion why should i have to pay for people to sit around and populate the world with degenerate kids? When you take a handout you should no longer have the same freedoms a working american does. Why you ask? I know someone who makes $11/hr, gets wick and other government assistance, doesn't have to pay taxes and gets about 8k a year back from the government for his 2 kids... Are you fucking kidding me? The system is ass backwards and i'm sick of it. So in order to control the amount of people who are born into this lifestyle and work the system. I am willing to stand up and say that yes, this is ok and something does need to be done.

[El Karacho1647545492]

Our parents and grandparents should depend on themselves, their kids, and families for support and not society at large. We should be teaching responsibility for oneself, and not to expect handouts from anyone. At the same time the government should not be stealing 30% of our incomes and then providing a solution to the problem it creates. Our parents and grandparents grew this monster and now we are going to fix the problems, or kick the can down the road and let or kids and grandkids pay for our stupidity.

 

While I often agree with your philosophy and adherence to personal responsibility, I believe the welfare of even the well-off individual can be improved by the overall welfare of society. I think that's what this country figured out during the great depression. That while personal responsibility is noble and righteous, sometimes even those who are very personally responsible need a safety net.

[KillJoy]

I would prefer mandatory drug / alcohol / tobacco testing over sterilization.

 

KillJoy

[2pointslow]

I would prefer mandatory drug / alcohol / tobacco testing over sterilization.

 

KillJoy

 

Pussy

[Rustlestiltskin]

This topic seems to hit close to home for mrjsplat.

 

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj288/Dubs740/7nTnr.png

[El Karacho1647545492]

I would prefer mandatory drug / alcohol / tobacco testing over sterilization.

 

KillJoy

 

Decriminalize all drugs, take all funding away from ATF/DEA, and put it towards rehabilitation efforts. Portugal did this.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7

 

Cliffs: Drug addiction was halved, drug-related disease rates and overdoses were more than halved. Given that our (in many cases for-profit, still funded by taxpayers) prison system is over 50% filled with drug-related criminals, one might consider this an effective means of saving money.

 

Getting over the idea of providing healthcare to perceived "criminal drug addicts" in this country will never happen though, so we'll just have to continue throwing money at ATF/DEA.

 

 

EDIT: I can also say from somewhat personal experience. I have a ton of family in Portugal including one 2nd cousin whose heroin addiction was a massive drain on everyone until heroin became less profitable for traffickers, she was unable to get her fix, and was able to get medical assistance affordably.

[stangsn95gt]

This topic seems to hit close to home for mrjsplat.

 

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj288/Dubs740/7nTnr.png

[sol740]

While I often agree with your philosophy and adherence to personal responsibility, I believe the welfare of even the well-off individual can be improved by the overall welfare of society. I think that's what this country figured out during the great depression. That while personal responsibility is noble and righteous, sometimes even those who are very personally responsible need a safety net.

 

I respect your ideas, even though I disagree that forced welfare somehow improves society. I would argue the opposite, welfare and its inevitable abuse leads to a class of citizens whose job becomes "gaming the system". This does not encourage that man or woman in becoming useful to society through works, but allows laziness to fester and spread.

 

I second the decriminalization of personal habits such as drugs. Though cut the funding and give it back to the people. Allow businesses to sell what the market has demand for. Educate how drugs adversely effect your body, and the proper expectations of abuse.

[BStowers023]

Drug tests should be mandatory every month, and anyone with a criminal record within the past 5 years should be denied any money from the government. I don't think anyone should be denied having kids, but we should not give any extra money for families with kids. "Thus" people that have kids to collect more welfare will be denied extra pay.

[Green Bastard]

I can't say I agree with abortion, however some sort of temporary sterilization I wouldn't be against. I think drug testing is not a bad idea at all, and if they did random drug testing they would save money. Also when they do the testing, take the cost out of what that individual would have gotten that month. Also give no warning before the testing, offer no rehab, just multiple drug tests at the cost of the person trying to get back on welfare. Also I don't think welfare should be giving out checks for people to do what they want with. They should provide food and shelter only, no extra luxuries, if people on welfare get bored and want more, then they need to get a job to get it.

[boosted98gst]

I can't say I agree with abortion, however some sort of temporary sterilization I wouldn't be against. I think drug testing is not a bad idea at all, and if they did random drug testing they would save money. Also when they do the testing, take the cost out of what that individual would have gotten that month. Also give no warning before the testing, offer no rehab, just multiple drug tests at the cost of the person trying to get back on welfare. Also I don't think welfare should be giving out checks for people to do what they want with. They should provide food and shelter only, no extra luxuries, if people on welfare get bored and want more, then they need to get a job to get it.

 

Im pretty the laws are different unlike the 90s monopoly money welfare food stamps, i think wic and ebt can only be used on certain food items and taken at certain places. They are even starting rectrictions on un healthy food. They should make them only eat good nutritional food like veggies and non processed food. Half the people on welfare are fucking huge and prolly would not even use it, if they could not buy tv dinners and soda.

[Rustlestiltskin]

This topic seems to hit close to home for mrjsplat.

 

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj288/Dubs740/7nTnr.png

[El Karacho1647545492]

The concept behind mandatory drug testing and ending entitlement is that people who are essentially a drain on others shouldn't benefit from the common pool of tax dollars that we all pay, right?

 

Well, one thing that DEFINITELY doesn't benefit anyone are fast, loud, gas-guzzling cars driven by irresponsible drivers. And when used improperly, like for racing, on roads that are PUBLICLY PAID FOR WITH TAX DOLLARS, the consequences of accidents are often paid for with tax dollars. When a cement barrier or metal guardrail is destroyed by a car, or when a light pole is torn down by racers, that shouldn't be paid for by us INNOCENT TAXPAYERS right?

 

In that vein, I propose that every car that drives on PUBLICLY PAID FOR ROADS be outfitted with GPS trackers. After all, I don't want the roads I PAID FOR WITH MY HARD EARNED DOLLARS to be used for illegal activities like street racing. That way, we can make sure anyone who is doing illegal things like racing is kept off the road and doesn't incur costs to people like me.

 

After all, driving, like welfare, is not something you're entitled to. And if you think putting GPS on an inanimate object like your car is an invasion of privacy, how exactly is someone taking your bodily fluids and DNA any less of an invasion?

 

Just playing devil's advocate here on a level that might be a bit easier to relate to for the CR community.

[SpaceGhost]

The concept behind mandatory drug testing and ending entitlement is that people who are essentially a drain on others shouldn't benefit from the common pool of tax dollars that we all pay, right?

 

Well, one thing that DEFINITELY doesn't benefit anyone are fast, loud, gas-guzzling cars driven by irresponsible drivers. And when used improperly, like for racing, on roads that are PUBLICLY PAID FOR WITH TAX DOLLARS, the consequences of accidents are often paid for with tax dollars. When a cement barrier or metal guardrail is destroyed by a car, or when a light pole is torn down by racers, that shouldn't be paid for by us INNOCENT TAXPAYERS right?

 

In that vein, I propose that every car that drives on PUBLICLY PAID FOR ROADS be outfitted with GPS trackers. After all, I don't want the roads I PAID FOR WITH MY HARD EARNED DOLLARS to be used for illegal activities like street racing. That way, we can make sure anyone who is doing illegal things like racing is kept off the road and doesn't incur costs to people like me.

 

After all, driving, like welfare, is not something you're entitled to. And if you think putting GPS on an inanimate object like your car is an invasion of privacy, how exactly is someone taking your bodily fluids and DNA any less of an invasion?

 

Just playing devil's advocate here on a level that might be a bit easier to relate to for the CR community.

 

Speeders and racers pay for damage 10x over as police write more tickets per day than street race accidents occur. Hell they keep police employed, if there were no tickets, where would their funding come from?