Dviant Image business model is bunk

[vw151]

Kirk Kendrick at Dviant Image has annoyed the piss out of me. I have been emailing back and forth with him about his stupid business model and have held off on posting this until now. I'll summarize the premise first.

He was the track photographer at Barber and attempted to sell his images by offering a CD for sale for $40 for 1 day or $60 for both days at the track with out seeing the images.

This is $60 for images of both days site unseen.

If you don't buy the CD that day you do not have the option to buy the CD, however you can buy the images 1 at a time for $30 a piece or over $600 for all images. The reason he states for this is because his professor in college told him that money now is better than money later.

Spilt Second Photo, who was the track photographer at Mid-OH last year still offers the CDs of photos for sale on their website today. I believe this is the standard among track photographers.

I got in a rather long winded email dispute with him in which he decided to start copying the CEO of STT in on. It's not over yet but you can follow it here on this thread. I have put each email in quotes. I may have gotten a little out of hand but that's ok. At the very least it's been kinda fun.

Hey,

My name is Joseph Hansen. I purchased a CD of photos of Ray who crashed the 1997 GSX-R600. I'd also like to purchase a CD of photos of me on the 2003 GSX-R750. I'm the really tall guy in the black teknic leathers and shoe helmet with the intermediate sticker on the front. I am in the Saturday Intermediate pictures and the Sunday Novice pics. If you let me know what to do I'll send you $60 for the CD.

Thanks

Joe

Joe,

Thanks for your inquiry. Unfortunately, I cannot sell you a CD as you requested because it would upset all the customers who bought at the track. Now that you have seen my work, I'm sure this won't be an issue next time. See you at the next STT Event!

Kendrick Kirk

Kirk,

We did discuss this at the track and I thought you would be OK with it. I don't really understand this policy. Why would you try and sell the CDs site unseen at the track but not after being able to see the images? Do you not get others asking you for this option as well? I am an IT guy and also am an amateur photographer as well (it was my major in college for awhile). I really just want the digital files, I rarely use prints for anything anymore. The other track photographers offer a CD for sale after the track day also. At least they did at Mid-OH which is the closest track to me.

Either way, if you make an exception for me I won't tell anyone. I'm offering to pay you $60 to burn me a CD, I don't understand why you would turn down my money. I am not interested in buying prints and I would think that as a business person it would be your first priority to provide the customer with the service they are asking for rather than dictating to them how they will buy your images. $60 for a CD whether I buy it at the track or a few days later doesn't seem much different to me from a percpective of how much work you need to do for the $60. I would think you'd welcome the extra cash. I know I like money.

I am also a member of several forums in OH. Several of the guys I came down with are members of these forums as well and were interested in your images on a CD but did not want to buy them site unseen. I don't think this was due to a worry about your skills but more due to people wanting to see what their personal shots look like before shelling out $60. They probably wanted to see if you caught them dragging a knee, passing their buddy, hanging off the bike, pulling a power wheelie or whatever. Ray was an exception to this because he crashed and actually got to see some of those images on your camera and knew what he was buying before purchasing.

Please don't take this as me whining to you. I really think you would be able to make more money if you modified your business model in this way as your competition already offers this option. We were actually talking about this on the drive home and couldn't come up with a good explanation as to why you would do it this way. There is also virtually no overhead to burning a CD. They are very cheap. It's like a free $60 in your pocket. I understand the profits of a big print are more but I am not planning on buying a big print. I have many of my own images that buddy's of mine have taken with my digital camera and my 300mm lens that I could print and I have my own people for printing. I hope you understand what I'm saying and at least reconsider selling me these images and even reconsider selling images to my friends. If you do I'll pass the word along, unless of course you want me to keep it on the down low that you made an exception for me.

Thanks,

Joe

Kirk,

I never received a response from you on this. There are several people I ride with that were talking about this the other day and expressed an interest in buying a CD after seeing the images. Have you reconsidered?

Again, I the customer would like to buy your product. Is there a pertinent detail to this situation that I am missing? Is there some sort of legal issue or company policy that keeps you from being able to sell the CDs after the track day? If nothing else please help me understand why you operate this way. Honestly, I'd even be happy if you just allowed me to download the images from an FTP server or something. That would be even less work and cost than mailing a CD.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe,

I sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm for my work. I apologize for taking a few days to respond - I had other pressing issues that needed my attention. While I could use an additional $60 in my hand right now and the work would be minimal, for fear that I will cost myself more than that in the future, I cannot reconsider.

There are quite obvious (in my perspective at least) reasons as to why I cannot sell a CD to you after the fact. These reasons are all related, but they call come down to one instance. Namely, I come to the track with faith. That faith translates into sales because my customers have faith in me and my work. I walk away with money in my hand, and everyone is happy. I had a professor in graduate school who said something I can never forget: "Money now is greater than money later." Should I allow people to buy after the fact, it dilutes the value of said work. Sales decrease because people simply forget after they drive home, the excitement fades, and they start looking forward to the next track day.

They need to be looking forward, for STT's sake. It adds to STT's brand experience (of which I have great concern), and it makes for a richer environment for all STT vendors, inclusive. I believe that focusing more on the moment will 1.) extend the experience customers have with my brand without diluting the experience they have with my client, which is based on the future, and 2.) add integrity to my products and the services of my client. This "moment" is precious to all sport bikers, because at 122mph, cranked over, trail braking to the apex, there's not much else we focus on. That moment is what I capture. That is my value. My value is not concerned with the future, therefore every experience audiences have with my work needs to be consistently in the "now." I realize this seems philosophical, but as they say, marketing is not an exact science.

There has been a large amount of thought that has gone into brand management, product portfolio, and price strategy. It has been difficult to find something that works for everyone because there are so many different places for STT's customers to spend their money, and all the products work so well in the end-users' hands. What I am doing now is about as good as it get given the price sensitivity of my market, my client's demands, and my costs. About 75% of my market can live with this model to get photos from me, whether that be because they are a commodity, they're the best photos they can get at a trackday anywhere, or that I'm a pushy salesman - whatever the case, it is working now. Is my system perfect? No.Would I like it to work better? Of course.

I am copying STT's new CEO, Ron to see if he has any inputs. My model is dynamic, and there are minor changes almost daily. I'm open to suggestions, however please be aware that there are more than two parties in this equation. For you, they are just photos with a price tag on them. To me, they are my livelihood. To my client, they are extensions of brand experience that need to last as long as possible. To the venue, they are also extensions of brand experience.

Hopefully, this answers some questions.

Kendrick Kirk

865.300.5049

Edited April 8, 2009 by vw151

[vw151]

And another response

Kirk,

If that model works for you then I guess I can't argue.

However, I am offering you Money now and I am curious if you have tested your professor's mantra by trying it both ways and seeing which method brings you more sales. Of course it's tough to base your results on 1 track day as some track days bring lots of photos where others may not regardless of your methods. Maybe do the first half of the summer your way and try the second half my way and see if it makes any difference. I understand what you are saying about money now vs. money later but leaving money behind based on a business theory doesn't make sense to me either.

I'm getting off track so let me get to the meat of the problem. The track offers a myriad of diverse customers for you. It varies from people who show up in $300,000 motor homes with $70,000 bikes down to a group of young guys all riding untitled track only gixxers worth $2000 each and splitting gas on the way down to make it more affordable (that is us). Funny thing is, we all kinda know each other through the internet. I'm sure you are very aware of that.

The guy with the motor home and expensive bikes probably doesn't worry about when and how he can buy your product. If he wants it he'll just drop the $30 per digital image if that is what he wants or the $100 - $450 per print if that is what he wants. Hell, he might even buy your CD sight unseen for $60 or $40. On the other hand, the young and relatively poor track day rider needs a value. My friends and I are not interested in buying a CD on faith that you got some good shots and again the shots don't necessarily have to do with your skills. Your skills are only half of that equation. What we were doing on the track in the shots is the other half. No less, we are willing to spend the money on the CD but want to see the images first. It is not really an unreasonable request.

I understand that you are concerned people will forget you after leaving the track but if that is your mantra then why offer the digital images for $30 a piece after the fact and why offer prints after the fact. If you want to do all of your sales that day "in the moment" then stick to it. You are contradicting yourself by selling things in this way. All that is really happening is you are selling the images cheap at the track and at a hugely inflated price after. I really think your heart is in the right place but your efforts are misplaced by trying to sell things this way. Here you are telling me how you don't want people to forget you, yet I am right here offering to buy your images after the fact. I am a testament to how untrue what you are saying is. I could understand not selling the CD at all so not to devalue your images but selling it at the track but not later is very strange. It really feels to me like you are catering to the richer track day crowd and leaving us working folk with little options. $60 for 2 track days worth of images sight unseen is 1 thing but if I do 5 or 6 weekends that adds up. I want to see the images first and believe me, I look at them after every track day. I don't know who these other people are that don't look after because they forget about it. It already costs enough getting the bikes ready and getting to the track. I don't need to have some photographer try and sell me his images in this arrogant manner where I am supposed to buy on faith that the images are going to be great but am left with very expensive alternatives otherwise just because he is trying to preserve some sacred "value". It's simple we go to the track, you take the pictures, we pay you money for said pictures. Sure it's special and you are capturing a moment but everyone is different. Some people are single track and go home and forget others want to see what they are buying. It would cost me approximately $500 to buy all of the images 1 at a time from your site. I am just not going to to do that.

We live in a capatilistic society and although money now IS in fact better than money later, money later is better than no money at all and keeping your customers happy is paramount. Your method alienates your customers and leaves them generally perterbed. Maybe if you still want to reward people for buying at the track beforehand you could offer the CD at a discounted rate at the track and for more online afterwards rather than not selling it at all. That seems reasonable to me. Maybe a 20% difference in price or something.

As I mentioned earlier I'm an avid photographer myself and given a 300mm F2.8 lens or maybe an 80-200 2.8 zoom and a Nikon D3X I too could make some great photos like yours where the background is blurred and the subject is nice and sharp and pops out. I actually do OK with my Canon Digital Rebel and a 70-300mm F4.5-5.6. I understand your craft and what it's like to be a struggling artist but I urge you to consider the business sense it makes to sell the CDs afterwards. If nothing else it makes sense to get as many digital copies of your work out as possible because the images will end up all over the internet usually accompanied by compliments on how nice the photos look. People on forums will start to recognize your name. The internet is a great marketing tool. By not selling the CD many of the images you produce will just sit on your hard drives unseen by everyone. What are they worth to you in that case?

Lastly, as I mentioned before. Other STT photographers offer a CD for sale after the fact. In fact the deals gap photographers offer 1 as well. I believe their model is something like a fixed price per image. Say for example $5 per digital image of $30 for the whole CD. So if you want more than 6 images you might as well buy them all. Not saying you should charge that much. $10 and $60 or $8 and $40. Whatever you want. Honestly this is the first time that I can remember where I offered to buy a product that was for sale already at a set price and had someone refuse to take my money. It's honestly a really strange business model but if I have it wrong and you are in fact making more money running things like this than more power to you. I'll just wait till Kentucky and Mid-Ohio and buy a CD after the fact from the track photgraphers that appreciate my money today or tommorow and don't try to stiff me for waiting to see the images. I mean seriously $60 on the track day or $500 tommorow. Sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I'll buy tires in stead and in stead of you getting compliments in many of the forums you'll likely be slandered and your images will go unseen. Please don't take my words as threats as I don't plan to slander you, I'm just reverberating the words I heard all weekend when people were speaking of the photographer and his goofy CD sales business model. Sorry if I come across as crass or out of line. I'm just flustered and generally turned off by the arrogance that you are showing by trying to sell images in this way. There are many mantra's to go by in life. I suggest trying the KISS method. This would mean swallow your pride and Keep It Simple Stupid. Lfie is too short to get wrapped up in the value of your work to such a degree that you actually turn down money for it.

[vw151]

And this is where we are at now.

Ron,

You may have read the email thread between Kirk and I. I am only emailing you directly because half way through the email conversation I was having with Kirk he decided to copy you for some "insight." I have tried to reason with this photographer, although I may have said a few things in anger, I feel my logic is sound. I have been to several STT events and plan to attend several more this summer. I even looked at Split Second Photo's website to be sure about their business model. I found that I can still go on their site and buy a CD of full resolution images at a reasonable price, they also offer an option of lower resolution photos on a CD at an even heavier discount. I really think it would make sense to get some sort of consistency out of the photographers covering the events so that the track day product can be something the riders can count on at each event.

Kirk seems adamant about his business model which is designed to pressure people into buying the CD at the track. For starters, when I'm at the track I like to concentrate on riding, riding technique and maintaining my bike, not signing up for photos that I haven't seen and have not even been taken yet. Once the event is over I feel it's time to look back and check out the pictures. Aside from that idea I just don't think it's fair to offer the CD at the track for a reasonable price, albeit "sight unseen" and then turn around and charge $30 per digital image once the images are available to see. This is way too expensive and not anywhere near in line with the pricing of the other photographers. Not to mention the logic is just baffling to me and my other friends who also attended the Barber track day. We actually want to pay him money for his work and the price we are willing to pay was set by him. If he has 20 images of me on the track and I buy them individually I will have to pay $600 for what was originally $60 sight unseen and is offered by the other photographers at a similar price after viewing the images. His business model is financially prohibitive for me and many others and very inconsistent relative to the other track photographers used by STT. As I stated in one of my emails to him, I can understand having a discount at the track before the images are available to see and then a mark up after on his website, however marking up the images 1000 percent or more seems unreasonable to me and frankly is probably not good for his sales.

Having stated all of this, would you please consider discussing this with him and possibly convincing him to bring his business model more in line with the other photographers or just book a more reasonable photographer for the events in the future. I think that a track photographer adds a lot of depth to the experience and is a great add on service but when the photographer is as flaky as Kirk it really turns me off to the whole organization. I feel that Sport bike Track Time is a very classy organization but this photographer is far from a class act. I am a reasonable middle class citizen that is passionate about motorcycles. I spend a decent amount of my hard earned money attending your track days because I feel that they are well run and the best way to safely explore the limits of the bikes. When I spend the sums of money that I do at your track days I'd really prefer to get a more consistent experience from the track photographer of the day. There is nothing I hate more than spending a lot of money and coming away with a mediocre experience. Kirk is really hurting the experience.

As of right now I have seen no response to my last email from Kirk. I'm going to give him another week before I share the way he is treating his customers with my friends. I have always been happy with STT and continue to be but Kirk has been a huge dissapointment and a blemish to the STT experience so far.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this situation. Call me anytime at 937-******** or just respond to my email.

Thanks,

Joseph Hansen

Joseph

Thanks for the information.I am not aware of the situation with our

photographic experience at the track but I will talk with Mark and Monte

and express your concerns. We strive to make the track experience the best

including our selection of vendors who service our customers.

Regards

Ron

Ron,

Have there been any conclusions made regarding the Barber track photographer?

Kirk,

Have you considered bringing your business model in line with the other photographers? As I stated in previous emails, other track photographers such as split second photo, your competition, offer CDs for a reasonable price still to this day from track days last year. I won't get into it as I have in the past but I still find it insulting that you offer your CD at the track for $60 but $30 per image after the track day or an equivalent of about $600+ for the CD and justify it with some college proffessors business theory. I did think you images were good but not good enough to demand that kind of premium over your competition. I urge you to look at the other track photographers business model and bring it in line with your own for your own sake and because it really annoys me and most of your other potential customers and ultimately alienates everyone from your business. Making the people who pay your way happy is probably the best way to go when running a business whether money now is better than money later or not. Please consider this.

Thanks,

Joe

[John]

what a dumbass

[fusion]

Yeah if he has the images still I'm not sure why he wouldn't offer them up for sale still even after the fact. Shame too since it looks like he's a pretty good shooter.

[vw151]

He does offer them for sale after the fact @ $30 per digital image. He's just an arrogant kid stuck in a college mentality trying to work in the real world.

[vw151]

Ron sent me a quick response this morning. Keep in mind this has been going on for about a month now. I should have added dates.

No. I will bring it up this week on our conference call.

Thanks Ron. I look forward to your response.

[fusion]

I meant more reasonably priced. I'd be happy if I could sell single prints at as low as .99 sometimes.

[vw151]

I meant more reasonably priced. I'd be happy if I could sell single prints at as low as .99 sometimes.

Yah he's a moron. Here is my impression of him.

Random dude: Hey dude, here's some money for doing practically nothing.

Kirk: No thanks man I'm more interested in keeping my nose in the air. I'd rather eat ramen noodles at home than make money taking pictures.

[flounder]

That guy is an asshole.

[Cdubyah]

My favorite part "Either way, if you make an exception for me I won't tell anyone"

I had a hearty chuckle in the irony.

However, I do believe this photographer is being a tool.

[vw151]

My favorite part "Either way, if you make an exception for me I won't tell anyone"

I had a hearty chuckle in the irony.

However, I do believe this photographer is being a tool.

LOL, that was early on when I just wanted to get the stupid images from him. Once he started being a tool I decided to be persistent.

[TGrose]

Yah he's a moron. Here is my impression of him.

Random dude: Hey dude, here's some money for doing practically nothing.

Kirk: No thanks man I'm more interested in keeping my nose in the air. I'd rather eat ramen noodles at home than make money taking pictures.

Ramen noodles are delicious and nutritious, lets not get them involved in this.

[Disclaimer]

I appreciate the professionalism on the e-mail exchanges. Props to both you and the photographer with the goofy business model. It's nice to see people keeping their anger in check, especially over the internet where anonymity and lack of tone tends to create huge dick-swinging and pissing matches. Good job.

My favorite part was the grad school prof... but you properly countered with "Some money anytime is better than no money ever". Ohh the drama!

[Todd#43]

So, let me see if I have this right....

You have some money to spend.

and....

The photographer has a product that you want to buy.

but...

Said photographer wants more money for the product than you have to spend.

and....

You think it's stupid.

Did I get it right?

[vw151]

So, let me see if I have this right....

You have some money to spend.

and....

The photographer has a product that you want to buy.

but...

Said photographer wants more money for the product than you have to spend.

and....

You think it's stupid.

Did I get it right?

You are leaving out some key details in my opinion but yes what you have said is true.

Here is what I'm screaming.

Other photographers allow you to buy there product at more reasonable prices after allowing you to see the images. This photographer sells the images site unseen based on faith (even if you've never met him) at a reasonable price and then at a 1000% mark up once you are able to view the images and then justifies it through some silly college theory.

So, yes, you are correct in saying I can not afford to buy his images at his price and I do think it's stupid, but I think it is also valid to expect a consistent experience from an STT track photographer and that a 1000% mark up is unreasonable. And yes, I'm pitching a fit about it because I have every right to. I do realize I might sound like a whiney brat but I just got very annoyed with the situation. I'm just interested to see how it goes so I'm seeing it through to the end at this point.

[vw151]

I got another reply from him. Lot's of prompt replies

He changed his business model. $20 per image, $30 for 5 images $50 for 15 images.

I'm happy with that.

I can't say I agree with his views about consumers devaluing art and music but hey, at least he changed his business structure even if he did have to tell me how educated he is. Sorry dude, I don't give a shit about your MBA. It's capitalism. My dollars, your product. That's it. I think I'll go ahead and purchase 15 images and vote for this with my dollars.

Thank you for insulting me.

1.) The reason art in the US (including music) is terrible right now is because consumers devalue it. That's fine, but on principle the quality will suffer if it is not valued.

2.) I have no competition. There are direct substitutes, however I believe my product has value over such. If I competed on price, then everyone would most certainly lose.

3.) That theory I quote is based on years of practice. Remember, I am a businessman first and a photographer second. I got an MBA, not a masters or even an undergraduate degree in photography.

In short, if you can't afford my work, have a friend sit out there and snap some "pics." I first started shooting tracks in 2002, and I have learned one basic premise: the customer is always wrong when it comes to racers. Trackday folk aren't quite as bad, but few really understand what it takes to keep this profitable. One can quickly devalue their product so quickly that in one season their profits dwindle to nothing.

That being said, I have come to a compromise. My prices have been lowered, and I have offered two products with multiple selection for greater savings. I hope this reduction in price inspires consumption.

Kendrick

Kirk,

I'm sorry if you feel insulted but I did feel that you were being arrogant in the way you interfaced with the customer and the KISS method is something we refer to in my field all the time. I can see we will never see eye to eye as far as your business model goes but I think your new pricing structure is absolutely more fair and reasonable than your previous model and I am very happy with it. Thank you for your patience as I realize I can be a bit of a jerk sometimes.

Joe

Edited April 8, 2009 by vw151

[V4junkie]

That sounds much better. Glad there was some sort of compromise to be had.

[fusion]

He's only partially correct. It isn't that the consumer devalues it, it's that the market sets the price. People are only going to pay what they are willing to pay. For all he knows he can cut his prices in half, but triple his sales.

[Todd#43]

You are leaving out some key details in my opinion but yes what you have said is true.

Here is what I'm screaming.

Other photographers allow you to buy there product at more reasonable prices after allowing you to see the images. This photographer sells the images site unseen based on faith (even if you've never met him) at a reasonable price and then at a 1000% mark up once you are able to view the images and then justifies it through some silly college theory.

So, yes, you are correct in saying I can not afford to buy his images at his price and I do think it's stupid, but I think it is also valid to expect a consistent experience from an STT track photographer and that a 1000% mark up is unreasonable. And yes, I'm pitching a fit about it because I have every right to. I do realize I might sound like a whiney brat but I just got very annoyed with the situation. I'm just interested to see how it goes so I'm seeing it through to the end at this point.

What other photographers do is their business, not his. He has the right to charge what he wants, when he wants to. You have the right to purchase his product or not.

I mean, I'd LOVE to go buy a brand spanking new Ferrari for the same price as a Chevy Cobalt, but I'm not going to spend six days emailing Italy about how their "business model" sucks, or how its soooooo unfair that they charge so much more than Chevy for a car.

You do sound like a whining fucking sally. You knew his deal, and you still passed on the photos up front. Your problem, not his.

Seriously, if I were him I probably would have told you to fuck off in the second email.

[vw151]

What other photographers do is their business, not his. He has the right to charge what he wants, when he wants to. You have the right to purchase his product or not.

I mean, I'd LOVE to go buy a brand spanking new Ferrari for the same price as a Chevy Cobalt, but I'm not going to spend six days emailing Italy about how their "business model" sucks, or how its soooooo unfair that they charge so much more than Chevy for a car.

You do sound like a whining fucking sally. You knew his deal, and you still passed on the photos up front. Your problem, not his.

Seriously, if I were him I probably would have told you to fuck off in the second email.

Whatever man. You can email Italy all you want and he is well within his rights to tell me to fuck off just as much as I'm with in my rights to send some emails to some people and try to make things happen the way I want them too. I must have presented a valid enough argument considering things did actually change. Maybe you should email Italy and see what happens. Makes no difference to me.

I hardly think his photos are a Ferrari to a cobalt though. They are track photos, that means, proper exposure, a good long lens and high quantity and you'll get some good shots.

Sorry if I upset you. This guy just rubbed me the wrong way and I prefer not to pay hundreds of my hard earned dollars for some track photos when everyone else offers an equal product at a much lower price. I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to voice my opinion about it even if I do sound like a whiny sally.

Are you a photographer or something? What is your email address? Maybe we can engage in a battle of witts.

Edited April 8, 2009 by vw151

[Disclaimer]

I mean, I'd LOVE to go buy a brand spanking new Ferrari for the same price as a Chevy Cobalt, but I'm not going to spend six days emailing Italy about how their "business model" sucks, or how its soooooo unfair that they charge so much more than Chevy for a car.

If it took me 6 days of haggling to get a Ferrari for the price of a Cobalt, I'd do that in a heartbeat. You wouldn't? Please...

Sorry, we can't all be independently wealthy and "man up" to what the market is charging all the time. We're socialists for haggling, I know.

[Todd#43]

Whatever man. You can email Italy all you want and he is well within his rights to tell me to fuck off just as much as I'm with in my rights to send some emails to some people and try to make things happen the way I want them too. I must have presented a valid enough argument considering things did actually change. Maybe you should email Italy and see what happens. Makes no difference to me.

I hardly think his photos are a Ferrari to a cobalt though. They are track photos, that means, proper exposure, a good long lens and high quantity and you'll get some good shots.

Sorry if I upset you. This guy just rubbed me the wrong way.

Are you a photographer or something?

No, I'm not a photographer. Seems like you've got it figured out though. Why don't you do it? I mean, all it takes is a camera, right?

You questioning how someone runs his business (his business model, as you put it) is a long shot, unless you're doing virtually the same thing. My guess is you never have, and most likely never will. Questioning someone's pricing, sure....have at it. However, its not a "right", nor does it come with any guarantees. He decided to sell you some photos at a reduced rate, good for you.

So, you could have bought a CD for $60, but instead you're going buy 15 images for $50.00. I don't know how many images you would have gotten on the CD, but it looks to me like you're still paying more per image. I'd hardly call that a win.

If it took me 6 days of haggling to get a Ferrari for the price of a Cobalt, I'd do that in a heartbeat. You wouldn't? Please...

Sorry, we can't all be independently wealthy and "man up" to what the market is charging all the time. We're socialists for haggling, I know.

Sure I would...who wouldn't?

There's nothing wrong with trying to get a better price, but to get on a public forum whining about a price/practice/policy that you knew about going in makes you sound like a whining Sally.

Haggling doesn't make you a socialist. Having the government set the prices for everything does.

See the difference, comrade?

[vw151]

Really?

let me do the math

15 images x $30= $450

$50 x 1 image package = $50

15 images = 15 images either way

$450 - $50= $400

Hmmm, after working it out I'd say I saved $400 FTMFW!!!!!!

Seems like a win to me.

My buddy got a CD, it had 20 images on it. So big deal, worst case I could spend $80 and get all images. Then the math would be pretty similar to above, still a savings of say .... a set of brand new race tires or so.

I also fail to see where I was outside of my rights. We all operated like adults here. I can question his business model up and down the street if I want to regardless of my education on the matter. It doesn't mean he has to change a thing and it certainly doesn't mean I know more than he does, it just means I disagree with the way he operates and I'm letting him and others know about it. I could have an IQ of 50, never have seen a camera or motorcycle or track day or a business in my life and I'd still have every right to email this guy about whatever I want. He could then deal with it however he saw fit. Ignoring me is with in his rights. What are you trying to say here? Are you just a negative nilly?

Edited April 8, 2009 by vw151

[FocusDave01]