Which Modern Professional Race Car is the Most Impressive for what it does?

[Farkas]

that's more of a deterrent to sliding off the track/hitting a wall/spinning out/ etc. than actually trying to beat the other person. Yes, grip is very important, that's how you control the car. that fact that you lose as soon as you get passed also negates the racing as in any form of racing, you can always pass back.

 

You can certainly pass back and redeem yourself as the leader, but the likelihood of that happening in drifting is very slim since the tracks are short and very, very competitive. Like Drag racing, how often do you see multiple passes at such a competitive level?

 

You guys need to think of Drifting in motorsports kind of like running Hurdles in track & field events.

 

By your thought process:

A person running Hurdles isn't a "runner" because they have to jump over hurdles instead of just running a clear path? Because they're given the extra challenge of hurdles, they actually aren't runners because they're not as fast as they could potentially be?

[zeitgeist57]

Most impressive professional race car: DeltaWing

[owndjoo]

You can certainly pass back and redeem yourself as the leader, but the likelihood of that happening in drifting is very slim since the tracks are short and very, very competitive. Like Drag racing, how often do you see multiple passes at such a competitive level?

 

You guys need to think of Drifting in motorsports kind of like running Hurdles in track & field events.

 

By your thought process:

A person running Hurdles isn't a "runner" because they have to jump over hurdles instead of just running a clear path? Because they're given the extra challenge of hurdles, they actually aren't runners because they're not as fast as they could potentially be?

 

that makes no sense, hurdles you are still racing to the finish first. there is no judging involved. it's a race over obstacles, like motocross. Racing has one defined objective: be first to the finish, period.

[Draco-REX]

... it's still a race to the finish, any way you look at it.

 

By this logic, Rally driving wouldn't be racing, either. Sliding only slows the driver, therefor, they must not be racing.

 

Not on low-traction surfaces. And it is racing as the cars are being timed.

 

What you're describing by the passing is an "out". It's a way to grab a victory quickly.

 

 

So, let me ask you this. If someone showed up at a drift event with a grip car that would gap/pass every car it was put up against WITHOUT going sideways, would it win the event? Or would it be kicked out?

[greg1647545532]

YES. You get passed = you're losing.

 

So if I start out as the follower and I eschew any drifting in order to drive a proper racing line and pass the car in front of me, I still win because I crossed the line first? Why would anyone who starts out as the follower do any drifting then? Are they all tarded?

[greg1647545532]

By this logic, Rally driving wouldn't be racing, either. Sliding only slows the driver, therefor, they must not be racing.

 

If sliding sideways in rallying were actually slower, nobody would do it. Because there are no style points in rallying.

 

eta: I see I'm just repeating everything that Draco says. Oh well.

[BIGGU]

So if I start out as the follower and I eschew any drifting in order to drive a proper racing line and pass the car in front of me, I still win because I crossed the line first? Why would anyone who starts out as the follower do any drifting then? Are they all tarded?

 

Because you also lose if you straighten or loose drift.

[greg1647545532]

So the idea is to run the lowest slip angle possible that can still be considered a "drift" in order to run the fastest time and pass the car in front of you? The following car wouldn't ever do a big showy drift if he can do the bare minimum to avoid a DQ while attempting to pass the car in front, right?

 

I assume there's lengthy discussions on the drift forums about how to accomplish this balance between appeasing the rule nazis who want to disqualify the non-drifters and running as fast as possible.

[Farkas]

Not on low-traction surfaces. And it is racing as the cars are being timed.

 

What you're describing by the passing is an "out". It's a way to grab a victory quickly.

 

 

So, let me ask you this. If someone showed up at a drift event with a grip car that would gap/pass every car it was put up against WITHOUT going sideways, would it win the event? Or would it be kicked out?

 

Positive they'd simply kick the person out lol.

[Farkas]

So the idea is to run the lowest slip angle possible that can still be considered a "drift" in order to run the fastest time and pass the car in front of you? The following car wouldn't ever do a big showy drift if he can do the bare minimum to avoid a DQ while attempting to pass the car in front, right?

 

I assume there's lengthy discussions on the drift forums about how to accomplish this balance between appeasing the rule nazis who want to disqualify the non-drifters and running as fast as possible.

 

You always want to be the fastest.. they even run radar to indicate speeds entering corners and how much speed they carry exiting corners. And what's really ruining the scene is the fact that horsepower is obviously the biggest handicap in drifting. All the big HP cars, which are now LSX turbo swaps and crazy stuff like that, are far more capable of carrying faster speeds through corners with incredibly wide tires, while the underdog cars simply can't hang because it takes power to keep angle and speed. It's funny to explain, that in order to be fast and keep a lot of angle in drifting you have to have an incredibly grippy car to put that power down. Power + Grip = Fast + More Angle. Trust me, these guys aren't slow, or novice drivers by any means. Some of them are GT and LM driver's in past careers, some are grassroots drivers, but I assure you, all of them still drive around an apex much faster than you'd ever want to with entries in some corners over 100 miles an hour.

 

You look at different nationalities that have drifting and there's an incredibly different interpretation among them. Aussies and New Zealanders are hands down, the fastest and most wild drifters out there. Americans would be a fart in the wind to those guys. The Japanese have their own interpretation that is less focused on speed and much more on technicality, which Americans still can't hold their own in that aspect. Here in America, with Formula D rules as our basis, we're focused on speed and being overly competitive.. so much so that the sport itself is practically being ruined by the guy with the most money, and biggest HP engine.

 

In any perspective, drifting is about having fun, and out-driving your competitor in a race to the finish. It's not ONLY a race, but there are other objectives mixed in to make it much more interesting as a sport, not only to watch for the wrecks, but for the driver as well. No slow competitor wins, you have to be fast and the best at what you do between the start and finish line.

 

 

and again, like I said... F1 is still the most impressive.

[greg1647545532]

If that's the case -- if it's really a timed contest of speed and the judging is there just there disqualify people who fail to hold a drift -- then I'll concede that it's racing. Much in the same way that hurdling is "judged" in the sense that the fastest person who doesn't skip any hurdles wins, and there are judges to disqualify people who skip hurdles.

 

So can I have the lowest aggregate time between the start/finish lines while still meeting the standards of a "drift" and still lose? Because that's not the case in hurdling. If that's true, it's not really racing.

[Farkas]

So can I have the lowest aggregate time between the start/finish lines while still meeting the standards of a "drift" and still lose? Because that's not the case in hurdling. If that's true, it's not really racing.

 

To have a lowest aggregate time before disqualification wouldn't make sense in any sport aside from say, a qualification round to make a specific class. Unfortunately drifting doesn't have classes- Only the quickest and best make it to the final rounds. If you're slow as a driver it's pretty evident both leading and following. You're either increasing the gap between your competitor or you're on their door the entire time, or passing them.

 

Going back to running, you wouldn't tell the average person in a race, to run sub world-record times, otherwise they're disqualified from running every event. They run times, and THEN you get divided up in your appropriate class.

 

Formula D, you either qualify for your "license" as a top driver by being the fastest and best, or you go home. There isn't a novice, intermediate, pro national ranking. You either make it or you don't.

 

If that's the case -- if it's really a timed contest of speed and the judging is there just there disqualify people who fail to hold a drift -- then I'll concede that it's racing. Much in the same way that hurdling is "judged" in the sense that the fastest person who doesn't skip any hurdles wins, and there are judges to disqualify people who skip hurdles.

 

When you take all the extra shit out and look at the basics, that's all it is. Contest of speed, skill and you're disqualified for not performing.

 

In no way am I saying Drifting is the most difficult motorsport out there, or it takes the most skill, but the aspect of a race is still there, underlying the rest of what is involved.

[greg1647545532]

I don't know what you're going on about. Let's say it's you in me, in the Formula D finals. Qualification is over, we've already been matched up, this is the last run for all the marbles. I only have a vague notion of how drifting works but isn't it like 4 runs? Forward through the course with me in front, backwards through the course with me in front, forward through the course with you in front, backwards through the course with you in front.

 

My sum total of times for those 4 runs is 2 minutes flat. Your sum total of times for those 4 runs is 2 minutes, 1 second. The judges have declared that neither of us are disqualified for failing to hold a drift.

 

Can you still win based on style points? Or is that fact that I was faster the final determination?

[Farkas]

I don't know what you're going on about. Let's say it's you in me, in the Formula D finals. Qualification is over, we've already been matched up, this is the last run for all the marbles. I only have a vague notion of how drifting works but isn't it like 4 runs? Forward through the course with me in front, backwards through the course with me in front, forward through the course with you in front, backwards through the course with you in front.

 

My sum total of times for those 4 runs is 2 minutes flat. Your sum total of times for those 4 runs is 2 minutes, 1 second. The judges have declared that neither of us are disqualified for failing to hold a drift.

 

Can you still win based on style points? Or is that fact that I was faster the final determination?

 

If we ran identicle clean runs and you were still slightly faster, that would likely be evident during the runs, and you'd get the win.

[greg1647545532]

100% of the time I'd get the win? There's no way that you could win with a slower time? Physically impossible under the rules?

[Farkas]

100% of the time I'd get the win? There's no way that you could win with a slower time? Physically impossible under the rules?

 

Unless a judge was giving me outrageous scores in other areas because he's playing favorites, I should never get the win.

 

In which case, there would be a lot of very un-happy people in the stands because the judging is obviously rigged or unfair.

[greg1647545532]

Outrageous scores in other areas? What's all this about? I thought you were saying it was a race to see who was fastest. What are these other areas?

[Furloaf]

Drifting is the Synchronized Swimming of the motorsports world.

[Farkas]

Outrageous scores in other areas? What's all this about? I thought you were saying it was a race to see who was fastest. What are these other areas?

 

You know, like Speed and control(which has the most weight), with other minor things such as meeting the "clipping point", angle, etc.... it's all taken into consideration in the whole perspective of the race.

 

If we ran identical runs exactly as you metioned, where both cars had both solid and clean runs, except I was obviously slower.. In technicality, I should never, ever win. But, unfortunately just like an sports or competition, they are filled with people that play favorites, cheat, or lie.

[greg1647545532]

If we ran identical runs exactly as you metioned, where both cars had both solid and clean runs, except I was obviously slower.. In technicality, I should never, ever win. But, unfortunately just like an sports or competition, they are filled with people that play favorites, cheat, or lie.

 

I didn't say they were identical. Where did I say that? My drifting looked like shit and yours was beautiful and awesome and totally got you laid afterwards. I missed clipping points, my angles were awful, and I lacked control and whatnot. My speed was awesome, though, and technically I held my drifts well enough to satisfy the rules.

 

I was faster. So I win. Right?

[cstmg8]

Australian V8 Supercars, obviously!

[macpyro2]

Drifting is the Synchronized Swimming of the motorsports world.

 

 

But on the real...

http://i.imgur.com/4uI3wmq.jpg

[Farkas]

I didn't say they were identical. Where did I say that? My drifting looked like shit and yours was beautiful and awesome and totally got you laid afterwards. I missed clipping points, my angles were awful, and I lacked control and whatnot.

 

But I was faster. So I win. Right?

 

No, because you're not demonstrating the skill that proves you're better than I am. Such is the same in hurdling... You can win the race after knocking over multiple hurdles, but you're likely to get your run disqualified.

[greg1647545532]

No, because you're not demonstrating the skill that proves you're better than I am. Such is the same in hurdling... You can win the race after knocking over multiple hurdles, but you're likely to get your run disqualified.

 

I specified that I wasn't disqualified in my scenario.

 

So I was faster but I failed demonstrate enough skill, so I lose.

 

Not a race.

[greg1647545532]

It'd be like if I was the fastest hurdler and I didn't knock over any hurdles but a panel of judges decided that I didn't clear the hurdles by as many inches as another guy who ran slower, so I lose.

 

Not a race.