2004 CBR600RR hesitation/surging

[mattm]

First of all, the bike is a 2004 CBR600RR with 5500 miles. Bought used recently. Only been down once, me at a stop light. 0 mph and a scrap on the clutch cover.

Having an issue and looking to see if anyone has had this problem before. If I am out riding for 30 minutes or longer and the bike is warm (over 200 degrees) I get some hesitation or surging when I whack the throttle all the way open. It doesn't happen at 80% throttle, only wide open.

On Friday I rode from downtown Columbus, OH up riverside (stop and go) for 30 minutes and ate lunch. On the way up I was running my high beams and the last couple of miles of the trip it would fall on its face at full throttle, then surge forward, then fall on its face again. On the way back to work, using the same route with my highbeam off it didn't do it at all. It has done this with a nearly empty tank and a full tank. There appears to be some scaling in the tank, but this only occurs when the bike is hot and I get no warning lights (FI etc) when it happens.

I checked the battery at autozone and it registered 12.5V under load and it registered the CCA as 1800. That indicated to me that perhaps there was a problem with a cell. I replaced the original battery this weekend with a new Yuasa and it still happened. This time is was at less than full throttle and once I pulled off to check it the idle was swinging between 1000 and 2000. I shut it off for less than 10 minutes and it didn't happen again during the next hour of riding.

I put Techron in the tank and ran the crap out of it as I have been commuting with the bike. It as never exceeded 228 degrees while riding and this only happens when it is over 200 degrees. In cooler weather or at night this never happens. The intermittent nature of this seems to indicate to me that some sensor is having an issue. I hope its not TPS. Could it be the MAP sensor?

Sorry for the long post. Any ideas?

Edited April 28, 2009 by mattm

[justin0469]

Ya, I was going to say spark or fuel. When you get really frustrated after the fuel additives don't work, pull the plugs and see if they are black or white, see if you are getting too much fuel or not enough.

[EagleCock]

I think I've read about this same or similar problem on 600rr.net; i'll do some searching and get back to you...

[dustinsn3485]

It could actually be a low battery...

When I'm doing a lot of stop and go riding I don't use my high beams. There is a reason, but I'm not intelligent enough to expain. If you want a good solid explanation of why not to use your high beams talk to one of the mechanics at HNW.

[xtremef4i]

It could actually be a low battery...

When I'm doing a lot of stop and go riding I don't use my high beams. There is a reason, but I'm not intelligent enough to expain. If you want a good solid explanation of why not to use your high beams talk to one of the mechanics at HNW.

I have never had a problem riding with my highbeams. I always have the highs on so I can be seen by cages. Dustin, you will have to enlighten me sometime. But back on topic could be battery or stator going out. Just my $.02

[magley64]

could be a battery issue, could also be a FPR.

[exSRAaron]

The 03-04 had a problem with the recificers, but im not sure if that would have any of the effects you're having. Could be the battery, or sparkplugs.

[street pilot]

you have a power commander?

[mattm]

Thanks for all the help guys. I have heard about the rectifier/regulator but thought I heard somewhere that it was fixed on the 04s.

No power commander. Bike is stock other than a few cosmetic add-ons.

Hope its not the stator so will probably replace the battery this weekend. Anybody have suggestions on the best place to get a battery around the east side of Columbus? I think Batteries plus has them in stock and one store is close. Any other ideas?

Thanks again for all the help.

[mattm]

I think I've read about this same or similar problem on 600rr.net; i'll do some searching and get back to you...

Thanks! Been combing through the forums but not finding many concrete fixes. And the search is not so good, or I am not good at searching.

[EagleCock]

so here are the best threads I could find that match your problem:

http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=108269

http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?p=2134220

[SWing'R]

...I get some hesitation or surging when I whack the throttle all the way open. It doesn't happen at 80% throttle, only wide open.

You could just not run WOT

[mattm]

You could just not run WOT

Blasphemy!!!

Took the battery to autozone today and it tested bad. Actually tested at 12.5 volts but cold cranking amps were listed as like 1700+. Since the battery is 5 years old I just went ahead and replaced it.

Went out and ran it fairly hard today and got it warm and never saw the problem. Here's hoping that was it.

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

Thanks for the links WhoDey.

[ReconRat]

Blasphemy!!!

Took the battery to autozone today and it tested bad. Actually tested at 12.5 volts but cold cranking amps were listed as like 1700+. Since the battery is 5 years old I just went ahead and replaced it.

Went out and ran it fairly hard today and got it warm and never saw the problem. Here's hoping that was it.

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

Thanks for the links WhoDey.

5 years old... eek... actually, 12.5 is low for a 12 volt 6 cell battery. It should have around 14.5-14.8 new. My memory says something like 2.45 volt per cell. That would be 14.7 volt total. Charging system output is usually 14.5 volt.

And yes, the problem described is typical of a weak spark. The clue was cutting high beam, and the bike ran better. I'm surprised it didn't try to stall when you hit the brake light.

[jgetz524]

Ya, I was going to say spark or fuel. When you get really frustrated after the fuel additives don't work, pull the plugs and see if they are black or white, see if you are getting too much fuel or not enough.

ugh! That's like a 3 hour job on my 1000rr. Glad I haven't had any problems. I hope the new battery was all it was

[mattm]

5 years old... eek... actually, 12.5 is low for a 12 volt 6 cell battery. It should have around 14.5-14.8 new. My memory says something like 2.45 volt per cell. That would be 14.7 volt total. Charging system output is usually 14.5 volt.

And yes, the problem described is typical of a weak spark. The clue was cutting high beam, and the bike ran better. I'm surprised it didn't try to stall when you hit the brake light.

Yep. Actually the bike has never cut out and idled smooth when warm etc. Only issue was WOT and, it seems, high beams while hot. Bike actually has run well except for this issue, and i am surprised considering that state of the battery. Here's to hoping that the battery was it.

The service manual I downloaded says anything below 12.4 is no beuno so I went ahead and bought the battery today. I will update this thread if this issue comes back. I mean, it's a honda right? Shouldn't have any issues with only 5000 miles on it. Especially since the 2 previous POs didn't butcher the thing.

Thanks again guys. This forum is a great help to someone who hasn't ridden since a 1990 GSXR 750.

[mattm]

Ok looks like the battery didn't fix it. Put 70 miles on today and only happened once on Taylor Rd on the east side of town. 45 mph speed limit and running a constant speed. Hit the throttle a little bit and it stuttered again. Pulled into the Kroger on Taylor and Main and sat for a few minutes. Fired it back up and it didn't happen again.

Hate these kinds of issues. Looks like I needed the battery anyway and this time it took longer to happen. It also didn't take full throttle to make it happen.

Will look at the plugs soon and will be dumping some fuel system clearner through it and then running the crap out of it. Have been taking Broad Street to downtown as my way to work. Maybe it needs to be run harder??

[ReconRat]

Make sure the plugs are the correct type/heat range. Looks like maybe fuel problem now, dirty carb or injectors. Be sure to re-check the voltage in the battery, and make sure it's not running down, from some other electrical problem. Is your can stock? Or swapped out?

[exSRAaron]

it shouldnt be the plugs tho really, i think the interval on the RR is like 20k or something. But make sure u look em over good, cuz it does take a while to get to em im thinkin' fuel issue too.

[mattm]

Make sure the plugs are the correct type/heat range. Looks like maybe fuel problem now, dirty carb or injectors. Be sure to re-check the voltage in the battery, and make sure it's not running down, from some other electrical problem. Is your can stock? Or swapped out?

Bike has 5500 miles on it and runs great except for when it is hot and I am running in stop and go traffic. Then only sometimes does it do this. I think it needs have the crap run out of it as I have been commuting with it for a couple weeks now and going slow. Not enough time above 12k rpm. The plugs should be original but I will definitely check them.

The can is a Leo Vince slip on. This bike appears to have a competition werkes fender eliminator, and some aftermarket turn signals. Is the stock tailight on a 2004 clear with red lights? That may be aftermarket, along with the slip on but otherwise the bike appears to be very stock.

[mattm]

One more thing to add. When it started missing/hesitating today I pulled into the Kroger and the idle was fluxuating between 1000-1500 rpms. Maybe points towards TPS or MAP?

Just remembered and wanted to add in case it helps.

[ReconRat]

Poor performance at low and idle speed:

Ignition timing (probably not a factor on computer ignition)

fuel flow (including jetting)

fuel injector (or carbs)

leaks in the air intake

poor spark

more specifically:

backfiring or misfiring during acceleration:

Ignition system malfunction

[mattm]

Poor performance at low and idle speed:

Ignition timing (probably not a factor on computer ignition)

fuel flow (including jetting)

fuel injector (or carbs)

leaks in the air intake

poor spark

more specifically:

backfiring or misfiring during acceleration:

Ignition system malfunction

Yes it has to be fuel or spark. However, when it happens sporadically I tend to lean towards a sensor that would cause issues like the TPS. Just took the bike back out and no issues at all. This happens when the bike is hot and running at lower speeds <50 mph.

I am just kinda thinking out loud on this as it happens infrequently. The idle weirdness that occurred once I had the issue today is something I haven't experienced before and makes me think that some sensor involved in the idle and throttle position is related to this somehow.

[ReconRat]

Agreed, intermittent is probably an electronic sensor. Maybe one or more is a potentiometer type position sensor or switch, or something, and cleaning it would work. Throttle position sensor. Ignition cutout devices (kickstand). I've downloaded your service manual, but haven't looked at it yet. I wonder how many copies of the cbr600rr manual I got now...

btw, it almost sounds hot also, is the radiator fan on, or should be on, when this happens? Temperature ok?

Edited April 27, 2009 by ReconRat

[ReconRat]

Starter Valve Synchronization is also on the troubleshooting list, and I got no idea what it is. And I got one on my bike also. Guess I got some reading to do.