Dodge Charger SRT 392 vs Hellcat

[Orion]

Seriously, go drive something with that transmission. Drive an S4 w/DCT (which is almost universally considered better than the manual in that car) and SQ5 w/the 8HP and objectively tell me that the DCT iteration is a better drive train than the 8HP. I don't think anyone could.

 

Those are the closest cars I've driven that have a 'manual' like transmission and the 8HP. It would be really interesting to check out some Challenger with a manual versus the 8HP.

 

Are there any other cars out there that have both w/the same engine in the same chassis? Maybe some BMW?

 

Jesse, "faster" does not necessarily = "more fun". I KNOW that a lot of new automatics shift faster and more aggressively than I do. I also know that a lot of that translates into faster 1/4 mile times out of the automatics. None of that makes those cars more fun, to me. I do not want to be a passenger in my own car, I want to DRIVE it.

[kirks5oh]

You've said your backseat in the GTR is a bit too small for the kids. This seems like the perfect replacement. :burn:

 

i just got the GTR running awesome again, and am actually considering modding it further. the GTR isn't going anywhere, but the kids told me last week they don't really like the cts-v anymore......

[coltboostin]

Seriously, go drive something with that transmission. Drive an S4 w/DCT (which is almost universally considered better than the manual in that car) and SQ5 w/the 8HP and objectively tell me that the DCT iteration is a better drive train than the 8HP. I don't think anyone could.

 

 

But the DCT has a clutch, and the ZF 8HP has a torque converter, correct?

[coltboostin]

i just got the GTR running awesome again, and am actually considering modding it further. the GTR isn't going anywhere, but the kids told me last week they don't really like the cts-v anymore......

 

30k, cash in had.

 

[Trouble Maker]

But the DCT has a clutch, and the ZF 8HP has a torque converter, correct?

 

Yes. I guess that's part of the point I was trying to make, sorry if it wasn't clear. The marketability of shifting and low speed creep is worlds better on the SQ5 w/8HP and I think you would need to instrument the car to tell if it shifted any slower than the S5 w/DCT. Because of that, I think the drive-train comb of the 3.0'T' with the 8HP is a better combo than with the DCT.

 

The only thing you lose with the 8HP is launch mode. I think that's because the TQ converter on a regular launch is already doing part of what the DCT launch mode does so the benefit is not nearly as stark so they don't apply it to AT cars.

[Trouble Maker]

30k, cash in had.

 

 

Is that a reasonable price for a V2? I really have no idea because I'm not in the market, but my gut tells me that's a low ball offer.

[Trouble Maker]

Jesse, "faster" does not necessarily = "more fun".

 

Notice that I never said faster, I said better.

 

Ok, you might have more fun rowing your own gears, I know I do. And that's fine to have your own preference. It doesn't mean that the MT is objectively a better combo all things considered.

[Orion]

Is that a reasonable price for a V2? I really have no idea because I'm not in the market, but my gut tells me that's a low ball offer.

 

Your gut, the fact that it is coltboostin making the offer, and smiley face at the end of it. I'd take those odds.:lolguy:

[Geeto67]

Yes. I guess that's part of the point I was trying to make, sorry if it wasn't clear. The marketability of shifting and low speed creep is worlds better on the SQ5 w/8HP and I think you would need to instrument the car to tell if it shifted any slower than the S5 w/DCT. Because of that, I think the drive-train comb of the 3.0'T' with the 8HP is a better combo than with the DCT.

 

Who cares, there is no third pedal and you put it in D when you are feeling lazy. Doesn't matter if there are little elf clones of Aryton Senna inside the case working the gear sets at the speed of light. At the end of the day it's video game driving.

 

The way I see it there are are only three situations where one of these transmissions is preferable:

 

1) you are in a high level amateur, semi-pro, or professional competition (including bracket drag racing and F1 which seem to be the too big uses for this tech),

 

2) you are unable to drive stick because of some physical limitation, and

 

3) you don't want to feel inferior because you can't drive stick as well as your peers and you are a tech head so you are going to rely on the "I'm into technology" aspect to hide the fact your daddy didn't love you enough to teach you how to work three pedals like a man.

 

There is a 4th reason where you just don't care about cars, driving experience, or other people's opinion but I am going to guess that is nobody on this forum.

[ForeverMaker]

You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

 

....

 

Who cares, there is no third pedal and you put it in D when you are feeling lazy. Doesn't matter if there are little elf clones of Aryton Senna inside the case working the gear sets at the speed of light. At the end of the day it's video game driving.

 

The way I see it there are are only three situations where one of these transmissions is preferable:

 

1) you are in a high level amateur, semi-pro, or professional competition (including bracket drag racing and F1 which seem to be the too big uses for this tech),

 

2) you are unable to drive stick because of some physical limitation, and

 

3) you don't want to feel inferior because you can't drive stick as well as your peers and you are a tech head so you are going to rely on the "I'm into technology" aspect to hide the fact your daddy didn't love you enough to teach you how to work three pedals like a man.

 

There is a 4th reason where you just don't care about cars, driving experience, or other people's opinion but I am going to guess that is nobody on this forum.

[RyM3rC]

bunch of stuff

 

easily the funniest thing you've posted here so far

[Rustlestiltskin]

Who cares, there is no third pedal and you put it in D when you are feeling lazy. Doesn't matter if there are little elf clones of Aryton Senna inside the case working the gear sets at the speed of light. At the end of the day it's video game driving.

 

The way I see it there are are only three situations where one of these transmissions is preferable:

 

1) you are in a high level amateur, semi-pro, or professional competition (including bracket drag racing and F1 which seem to be the too big uses for this tech),

 

2) you are unable to drive stick because of some physical limitation, and

 

3) you don't want to feel inferior because you can't drive stick as well as your peers and you are a tech head so you are going to rely on the "I'm into technology" aspect to hide the fact your daddy didn't love you enough to teach you how to work three pedals like a man.

 

There is a 4th reason where you just don't care about cars, driving experience, or other people's opinion but I am going to guess that is nobody on this forum.

 

#rekt

[kirks5oh]

Can anyone really justify either of these cars when you can spend the same amount and buy a real 426 hemi powered 60's dodge/Plymouth and get twice the coolness/style factor points and an actually appreciating asset.

 

I mean that's what we are after right? nobody DDs their Hellcat or SRT 392 and hardly anybody is really driving these things like they stole it, right? It's all about impressing the people who don't have one with the biggest stick imaginable, right? If you are not hung up on numbers matching and that whole gig a 60's roadrunner with a crate hemi is way more impressive.

 

there's nothing 'cool' to me for having a 60's muscle car sitting in my garage collecting dust. i'm not out there for coolness or style points, i could give a fuck what others think of my cars.

 

99.99% of cars are horribly DEPRECIATING assets that require upkeep and maintenance. i have plenty of shit that appreciates sitting in bank accounts that requires zero maintenance, thought, or concern. cars get stolen, wrecked, scratched, etc.

 

i drive the fuck out of all my cars, literally. i've literally tried to break my GTR every time i turn it on. and i drive it all winter long.

 

buying a '60's muscle car and spending a ton of money to throw a crate motor in it is insane. there's something to be said about buying a car with a full warranty, all the amenities, comfort, a/c, seats 5, and can run 10's right off the showroom floor.

[Mallard]

But the DCT has a clutch, and the ZF 8HP has a torque converter, correct?

Torque converters have clutches too. They don't just slosh fluid around all the time, they also lock up.

[Geeto67]

there's nothing 'cool' to me for having a 60's muscle car sitting in my garage collecting dust. i'm not out there for coolness or style points, i could give a fuck what others think of my cars.

 

So don't let it collect dust. Drive the wheels off of it. If your response is to look at an old car and think it should not be used as a car then I don't know what to say, but then again I owned a new car in the 1990s and instead drove a 1967 GTO as my daily because it was more fun. I even drove that car in a blizzard to a springsteen concert in buffalo NY in 1997. People who let old cars collect dust without use get no sympathy from me. They were someone's daily driver at some point.

 

99.99% of NEW cars are horribly DEPRECIATING assets that require upkeep and maintenance. i have plenty of shit that appreciates sitting in bank accounts that requires zero maintenance, thought, or concern. cars get stolen, wrecked, scratched, etc.

Fixed it for you. there are plenty of cars where the depreciation is quite manageable (cough...any 10 year old subaru...cough) and some where the depreciation makes the car an amazing value for the quality (cough....VW CC...cough). There are even appreciating cars like the BMW 1M or any 60's muscle car. But none of them are a hellcat and I get that. As far as cars getting wrecked, stolen, scratched...well it's a car, that's kinda the risk you sign up for.

 

 

i drive the fuck out of all my cars, literally. i've literally tried to break my GTR every time i turn it on. and i drive it all winter long.

I was not light on my GTO, ever. I broke it, I fixed it, I was lucky i wasn't killed in it a few times. I don't know where you get this idea that just because something is old you have to baby it. That sheet metal is 1/8th inch thick, you have to hit something hard to dent it. When I was in the fire department in NY (Vol.) the car had wig wags and I used to use it to respond to fire calls because with a blue light I had (sorta) license to drive like an asshat at 3am.

 

buying a '60's muscle car and spending a ton of money to throw a crate motor in it is insane.

 

so buy one with a crate motor already installed. There are plenty like that built to a high build quality. The nice thing about anything custom is you get all the new parts the P/O bought at 80% off and all the labor for free. Plus crate motors have transferrable warranties if you buy them from OEM (Chevy, MOPAR, etc).

 

Ok, it's a chebbie but for the price of a SRT 392 you can get a 500+hp 502 ci Fuel injected finished car with A/C, power locks, leather, etc... with a style that can best be described as "panty dropping":

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Chevelle-Malibu-1972-chevrolet-chevelle-502-fuel-injection-pro-touring-show-winning-resto-/141603643029?forcerrptr=true&hash=item20f83c1e95&item=141603643029&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

This was just the easiest one for me to find, and yes I know it's a slushbox but so is the charger. There are others out there you just have to look. So you don't get traction control, ABS, or any of that other nanny stuff, big deal. Do you really need it?

 

Edit: here is a cheaper one with a manual trans - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Chevelle-Super-Sport-/321690810882?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4ae6443a02&item=321690810882

 

there's something to be said about buying a car with a full warranty, all the amenities, comfort, a/c, seats 5, and can run 10's right off the showroom floor.

 

There is something to be said for that. I wouldn't know I haven't bought a new car since 1995 but not for lack of means, merely desire. But then again Dodge wasn't selling challenger Hellcats back then. I can also tell you from dealing with the service department for Jeep that MOPAR warranties are almost worthless, or at least only as good as your nearest competent dealer which for me might as well have been on the moon.

 

My father used to call the new car premium "the price you pay to be the first to fart into the seat". He buys new cars all the time so I guess it's worth it to him.

 

I can wait 5 years and get all the same stuff used with a warranty from CarMax at a fraction of the price. There will just be a lot of strange farts in the seat when I do. I can live with that.

 

BTW, I'm still waiting to meet the person that DDs a hellcat anything. I see a ton of people who don't own one who will say they would DD it (including myself) but really I just want to meet the one guy who bought one and decided every stinking day he is going to wrestle 700 hp down the street. Then I would like to buy him a beer. Maybe there is one dude in southern california who DDs one but that's it. most people who buy them know they bought a toy.

[gillbot]

The one to buy is the Scat Pack. $39,999-ish with the 6.4L.

 

This, but a base scat pack challenger is 38k with the guzzler tax. I've already talked to a few dealers and if one will budge, I'm in one.

[Littleguy]

+1 for just getting the 60's version and driving the piss out of it like a bauce.

[Mallard]

This, but a base scat pack challenger is 38k with the guzzler tax. I've already talked to a few dealers and if one will budge, I'm in one.

$1500 cash back right now on the Charger Scat Pack...I didn't check the Challenger. Must take delivery by end of month.

[Rustlestiltskin]

+1 for just getting the 60's version and driving the piss out of it like a bauce.

 

+2

 

BTW,

Geeto has been on point thus entire thread.

[Mallard]

BTW, I'm still waiting to meet the person that DDs a hellcat anything. I see a ton of people who don't own one who will say they would DD it (including myself) but really I just want to meet the one guy who bought one and decided every stinking day he is going to wrestle 700 hp down the street. Then I would like to buy him a beer. Maybe there is one dude in southern california who DDs one but that's it. most people who buy them know they bought a toy.

 

There were quite a few daily driven through the Michigan winter, and these weren't just company cars, they were personal vehicles. If you don't want to wrestle 700 hp down the road every day use the black key.

 

I'm glad you already know the resale of these vehicles, and I hope you're right because I'd like to pick one up someday. But the fact is that the Hellcat's are pretty special cars, built in limited numbers, and could possibly be the last mass-produced, high HP V8 car ever, if CAFE has its way.

[Mallard]

+2

 

BTW,

Geeto has been on point thus entire thread.

I can't drive my kids around in a big block 69 Camaro. I can't pack the family into a big block Camaro and drive to Florida. I can in a Hellcat. Different cars, different purposes.

[kirks5oh]

So don't let it collect dust. Drive the wheels off of it. If your response is to look at an old car and think it should not be used as a car then I don't know what to say, but then again I owned a new car in the 1990s and instead drove a 1967 GTO as my daily because it was more fun.

 

My father used to call the new car premium "the price you pay to be the first to fart into the seat". He buys new cars all the time so I guess it's worth it to him.

 

BTW, I'm still waiting to meet the person that DDs a hellcat anything. I see a ton of people who don't own one who will say they would DD it (including myself) but really I just want to meet the one guy who bought one and decided every stinking day he is going to wrestle 700 hp down the street. Then I would like to buy him a beer. Maybe there is one dude in southern california who DDs one but that's it. most people who buy them know they bought a toy.

 

old cars are not fun to drive. or maybe i'm just getting old. i hate driving my '85 GT. i smell like shit driving it, it rides like a tractor, and just isn't nearly as fast as my other cars. its fun to putz around in, and go to car shows, but i wouldn't daily it in a million years.

 

i hate the smell of other peoples' farts, so i almost never buy a used car, when i can easily afford the new one. this may be a dick attitude to have, but if i can't afford to buy a car brand new, i feel like a poser driving it. that's just me, and there are definite exceptions to the rule.

 

i tried to daily my 662hp GT500, but the car was a lemon, and i had to give it back to ford. my GTR is roughly 650-700 crank hp, and i drive the fuck out of it--daily. i drove it today, and we have 2" of ice/snow mix. zero fucks given. if i get a hellcat, i can assure you i will daily it--at least when the roads are safe. and i will beat the piss out of it, and let my kids eat all over the back seat.

[Geeto67]

old cars are not comfortable to drive. or maybe i'm just getting old. i hate driving my '85 GT. i smell like shit driving it, it rides like a tractor, and just isn't nearly as fast as my other cars. its fun to putz around in, and go to car shows, but i wouldn't daily it in a million years.

Fixed it for you. A fox body mustang feel like a plush couch compared to some of the 60's musclecars. Comfort is not a priority. Hellcat, Scat Pack, your GT, heck even a 1989 honda civic with a rip in the seat and 200K miles wins over some of those old sleds. you don't buy a 1960's chevelle/mustang/GTO/roadrunner and expect to be swaddled in seats made of whale penis. You expect a mattress spring to poke you in the balls and to have a thin layer of sweat from a Naugahyde seat. The real question is, since we are talking about cars that are invariably toys, why do you want your toy to be comfortable? Part of the experience of hitting a baseball with a wood baseball bat is feeling the reverberation when you connect - same kind of thing: the rawness is part of the fun.

 

As far as smelling like shit when you drive it, that's probably something to do with your personal car and not the car it self. I find it hard to believe that every 1985 Mustang GT made its owner's smell like shit from new.

 

This probably depends on your definition of fun. Some people like riding tractors. Some people like riding old tractors. There is even a magazine for those people.

 

I'm pretty sure every old car is not like your fox body. in fact I don't even consider fox bodies old cars though they are now older to me than 1960's cars were to me in high school and we considered 60's cars old cars. Just remember in 1985 almost everybody who bought a 1985 GT daily drove it.

 

i hate the smell of other peoples' farts, so i almost never buy a used car, when i can easily afford the new one. this may be a dick attitude to have, but if i can't afford to buy a car brand new, i feel like a poser driving it. that's just me, and there are definite exceptions to the rule.

 

Modern therapy can do wonders these days. even without drugs. Kidding (mostly). Some people just like new cars. I get it. It's not a "dick attitude" to have that you don't like a used car but I wouldn't exactly call it mainstream. If you feel inferior driving a used car - man that's your hang up. Enjoy your new hellcat or 392, you are part of the demographic it was made for.

 

i tried to daily my 662hp GT500, but the car was a lemon, and i had to give it back to ford. my GTR is roughly 650-700 crank hp, and i drive the fuck out of it--daily. i drove it today, and we have 2" of ice/snow mix. zero fucks given. if i get a hellcat, i can assure you i will daily it--at least when the roads are safe. and i will beat the piss out of it, and let my kids eat all over the back seat.

 

Every car is going to be different. Some cars will be great and some cars will suck. you got a lemon GT500 and that's too bad but I would hardly call it representative of the entire production run of GT500s.

 

If you buy a hellcat and you drive it every day then I applaud you but again you would not be in the majority of owners buying these cars. Just because you do something doesn't mean everyone follows suit. I know people that baby their new challenger R/Ts as collectible and there is literally nothing special about those cars. On the flip side I passed by the guy with the Ferrari FF today in pouring rain so...Buy the hellcat, daily the fuck out of it, and first round will be on me. You'll probably be the only one (on this forum anyway) to collect on that.

 

For the record I think it is awesome that you daily your GTR. It's a nissan, that's what it was meant for.

[Geeto67]

I can't drive my kids around in a big block 69 Camaro. I can't pack the family into a big block Camaro and drive to Florida. I can in a Hellcat. Different cars, different purposes.

 

There is this thing, I think it is called the Hot Rod Power Tour, that would disagree with you. I think what you are trying to say is I prefer not to drive an old car to florida because I like blue tooth and GPS and seats that both heat, cool, and massage your butt. But let's be realistic here - if they make 500 hellcats how many are going to get driven to florida? 2? 5? 10?. Or is it just having the option to do it even if you or anyone else never actually does it that has the value?

 

And why can't you drive your kids around in a BB camaro? my father had a 1969 Z/28 and I got driven around in it as a kid before he sold it. If it is a "safety thing" I get it. old cars don't have airbags, door beams, etc...some people don't feel it is safe to drive one everyday. I can't see any other reason why if it is not the safety issue though. If the car is being used as a toy then the risk of an accident is greatly reduced, and I would hope that if you have kids in your car you would have enough restraint not to do a smokey rolling burnout down a crowded residential street.

 

There were quite a few daily driven through the Michigan winter, and these weren't just company cars, they were personal vehicles. If you don't want to wrestle 700 hp down the road every day use the black key.

 

By whom? MOPAR engineers?

 

Let's be honest about that black key for a second. Nobody is going to use that. my father's ZR1 has the same "Valet key" and in 25 years he's used it maybe twice. We are gearheads, let's be honest with ourselves - the whole point of buying the hellcat is to wrestle 707 (which by the way isn't really wrestling, it's a modern car and probably quite docile) down the street and then walk with swagger from the car to the bar while nearby women's ovaries clang like sleigh bells at the sight of your manful stride - or at least that how it is in our heads. I would call myself a pussy for using that black key, and so would probably every other hellcat owner who has one. You don't buy the all wood rawlings autograph series bat just to bunt, you buy it to swing for the fences every stinking time.

 

I'm glad you already know the resale of these vehicles, and I hope you're right because I'd like to pick one up someday. But the fact is that the Hellcat's are pretty special cars, built in limited numbers, and could possibly be the last mass-produced, high HP V8 car ever, if CAFE has its way.

I don't, but everything depreciates. Even the BMW 1series M took 3 years to appreciate. MY Ducati took 5 years to appreciate and at one point you could have bought them for 50% of their value. Even the Ford GT depreciated a little before it picked back up.

 

Yes the Hellcat is a pretty special car. It is not the only special car out there however. It will be collectible, but if you follow the first year SRT challenger (which they also said all these things about) it will retain some value and depreciate some and then kinda just sit there until the next wave of appreciation comes along. There are patterns to this stuff, you can look at the marketplace for an example. If I had to guess, 2 years of inflation while MOPAR fills orders and gets back on line, then 3 more of deflated prices in the used market, and then when people have moved on to the next thing you'll see some stagnant pricing.

 

as far as being the last mass produced....blah blah blah well they said that about the corvette ZR1 a couple of years ago. And about the dodge viper in 1994, And about the Zr1 in 1990, and the 1989 kawasaki zx10, and the 1979 cbx six cylinder and the 1970 LS6 chevelle SS. It is the automotive equivalent of those people that used to walk around with signs that said "the end is nigh".

[Mallard]

There is this thing, I think it is called the Hot Rod Power Tour, that would disagree with you. I think what you are trying to say is I prefer not to drive an old car to florida because I like blue tooth and GPS and seats that both heat, cool, and massage your butt. But let's be realistic here - if they make 500 hellcats how many are going to get driven to florida? 2? 5? 10?. Or is it just having the option to do it even if you or anyone else never actually does it that has the value?

 

I actually knew you would use the Power Tour as a rebuttal to this. See below.

 

And there are a lot more than 500 Hellcat's getting made. I believe they said the production capacity of the engine is 10 to 12,000/year and the entire first year is sold out already. The fact that we're building so many, and the price of the car, I'm sure it will be a primary car for a lot of people. Sure, some will lock them up, but not 12, 24, or 36,000 of them.

 

And why can't you drive your kids around in a BB camaro? my father had a 1969 Z/28 and I got driven around in it as a kid before he sold it. If it is a "safety thing" I get it. old cars don't have airbags, door beams, etc...some people don't feel it is safe to drive one everyday. I can't see any other reason why if it is not the safety issue though. If the car is being used as a toy then the risk of an accident is greatly reduced, and I would hope that if you have kids in your car you would have enough restraint not to do a smokey rolling burnout down a crowded residential street.

 

Safety, NVH, ride, comfort, ease of getting them in and out of child seats, creature comforts, etc. Sure, you'll tell me that's a choice, just like I choose not to ride a bike to work. The bottom line is, sure it's ok for a toy car, but not a primary car/daily driver, which these are.

 

 

whom? MOPAR engineers?

Hey, we're people too! Fact is, most people didn't have their cars in time for winter, but many people here did and they drove the hell out of them. As I said, not all were company cars, there were also personal Hellcat's driven every day.

 

Let's be honest about that black key for a second. Nobody is going to use that. my father's ZR1 has the same "Valet key" and in 25 years he's used it maybe twice. We are gearheads, let's be honest with ourselves - the whole point of buying the hellcat is to wrestle 707 (which by the way isn't really wrestling, it's a modern car and probably quite docile) down the street and then walk with swagger from the car to the bar while nearby women's ovaries clang like sleigh bells at the sight of your manful stride - or at least that how it is in our heads. I would call myself a pussy for using that black key, and so would probably every other hellcat owner who has one. You don't buy the all wood rawlings autograph series bat just to bunt, you buy it to swing for the fences every stinking time.

No dispute here, you were the one talking about wrestling 700 hp everyday. I offered an alternative.

 

 

 

as far as being the last mass produced....blah blah blah well they said that about the corvette ZR1 a couple of years ago. And about the dodge viper in 1994, And about the Zr1 in 1990, and the 1989 kawasaki zx10, and the 1979 cbx six cylinder and the 1970 LS6 chevelle SS. It is the automotive equivalent of those people that used to walk around with signs that said "the end is nigh".

 

Mark my words: unless the EPA backs down from their 2025 regulations and yearly increases up to that point, this is it. Everything will have to go hybrid and downsize displacement to meet the regs. There may be V8's for very special cars/trucks, but not anywhere near the production numbers we have now.