aerial speed traps.

[sol740]

On one hand I very much dislike the authoritarian police state we have allowed our supposedly "free" country to become.

 

On the other hand, this is an incredibly nominal amount, and the OP has basically admitted guilt.

 

Since you are forced to pay for car insurance, and this ticket could very well have an effect on your rates, I advise to fight it at least to the point where it won't be reported to insurance and potentially cost you much more. I would advise hiring an attorney.

[Geeto67]

No one in here has said they weren't speeding. Yet, there is plenty of talk about still fighting a ticket.

 

Nobody here has said they were speeding either. You and others took "stopped for speeding" as an admission of guilt instead of a statement of fact. Thankfully CR isn't a court but rather a forum where assholes argue with each other.

 

 

No one said cops are always right. Therefore, no one is arguing that in this thread, you brought it up.

Nobody outright said it but what do you think "don't waste the cop's time" implies? I mean come on Joe, as someone who jumped to a fast assumption yourself you have to see the potential implications of your statement.

 

 

Therefore there is no need to talk about fighting a wronged citation.

The question is about fighting a citation. Whether it is right or wrong isn't up to us, it is up to the court hearing the case. You are projecting your morals and your judgements on to someone else whom you presume guilty. You aren't the only one by the way, I just chose you to quote because you were the most recent.

 

 

Take my 20 years+ of un-American service and see how they fit up your ass Kerry. You despicable legal hack.

Flattery will get you everywhere. I mean really Joe, you think any of this is a judgement on your military service? you are taking it more personal than you should. I mean, from my perspective you say some amazingly Stalinist things sometimes, but it is your right as an American to think and feel that way, just as it is mine to be critical of it. People have rights Joe, if you want to shame them for exploring them then be prepared for people to be critical of your statements in a like manner.

 

You take something out of context, and twist it just enough to throw your slighted input.

Nothing is out of context, everything here is relevant. You made a few assumptions and projected your own morality on someone else because you don't approve. and I don't approve of that. I happen to think trying to supress someone's rights for what ever reason is despicable. Does it make you a despicable person? no, but it is how I feel about the act.

 

Just so this stays relevant - the OP should look into whether the ticket will raise the insurance rates and then do a personal cost benefit analysis if it is worth their time to fight it, absent some moral objection to the manner in which the ticket was issued. I am not familiar with the court the citation was issued in but most courts in Ohio have some sort of negotiation arrangement. Also it is relevant to know whether the speed was clocked by VASCAR or by the good old fashioned method of the pilot operating a stop watch (it makes a difference as to the accuracy). Personally, most tickets issued by aircraft are kind of know to be pretty inaccurate due to the different methods which is why the fines on them are pretty low - to encourage people to just "pay the fine" as a means of error correction.

 

 

TL/DR version just for you Joe: yes we all know you served your country and thank you for your service and just because you commit the despicable act of trying to shame someone to suppress their rights doesn't make you a bad person. Also stop playing dumb like the things you say don't have implications beyond face value.

[Mojoe]

Good book. Maybe you'll get it to print in paperback.

 

Look, I wish CR had the option to write in crayon, so you could see how simple this is. People in this thread have admitted that they have been speeding and got tickets. Not one person has said they were not speeding and got a ticket. So, now you introduce people have a "right to fight a ticket", like no one has talked about that. No shit, they have. If you can't fathom owning you were speeding and paying the ticket, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Again, you have complicated the simplest of things. If you did it, own it. You say my outlook is "un-American". I say you'll spend the next three pages quoting and sifting through every word, until the meaning of the thread is completely wrong.

 

Prove me wrong.

[Geeto67]

If you did it, own it.

This isn't relevant to the OP's ask unless you presume him to be guilty. Clearly you think he was speeding and he should just pay the ticket. It sends a message and you are trying to shame someone into specific behavior. Not much more to say about it.

 

 

You say my outlook is "un-American".

yeah it's just my opinion. Do you really lose sleep over things that are my opinion?

[airwg2189]

And a "lotta clowns" go fight tickets with no integrity, because they want to play the technicality.

 

How can you say "don't act like you don't speed", when you clearly wrote you you a ticket doing 85 in a 65, and in the same sentence say you fought it?

 

 

I ride a white Suzuki. When the officer writes green Kawasaki on the ticket, I question if he even radar/LIDAR'd me or not. I'd be an idiot not to. If you can't see the fucking color of a motorcycle SITTING IN FRONT OF YOU, can I trust you to hold a gun?

 

It's his job to prove me guilty, not the other way around. I'm minding my own business getting back to Columbus from Athens on a completely empty highway.

 

If anything, fighting crap like that is standing up for the goodwill of the American people, IMO. What's wrong with holding our police accountable?

[El Karacho1647545492]

Law enforcement has enough to do without getting dragged to court and you knowing you were speeding. Let's take them away from their day off, or picking up an extra shift, so they can validate why they gave a ticket. Own your situation, or don't put yourself in it.

 

If they have so much to do that they can't afford the time to go to court for traffic tickets, they should have so much to do that they can't afford to sit out and fish for easy revenue via *gasp* traffic tickets.

 

Every time the state legislature of OH tries to remove the retarded front plate requirement (which every bordering state has eliminated), there seems to be a group that has plenty of time on their days off to fight it. Who is that? Oh right, the FOP, who year in and year out claims that they need taxpayers to spend millions of unnecessary dollars on front plates because they just spent millions of unnecessary dollars on plate readers that are apparently woefully incapable of reading a license plate on the ass end of a car. I guess the FOP doesn't have much to do afterprotecting cops who drive 106 in a 35 and kill motorists.

 

Really, though, if all you're gonna do as a cop is hand out speeding tickets to people who aren't otherwise driving recklessly, don't bitch about going to court to defend why you issued the citation. "Own your situation, or don't put yourself in it."

[airwg2189]

^ Amen. I have nothing but immense respect for city police that are actively out in the communities patrolling/preventing legitimate crime, but I do not give two flying fucks about the state troopers that hide behind concrete pillars with their cars that are obviously designed to blend in in the middle of the vast, empty, open, high-visibility, flat wasteland that is like 80% of Ohio outside of the cities who do nothing but issue tickets to drivers simply trying to reduce the amount of time spent in this nothingness by 15-20 minutes.

 

I recently drove to Miami, FL. Leaving Ohio, our count was 9 OSHP. West Virginia to Miami, the TOTAL was 4 cops.

 

Fuck the Ohio State Highway Patrol.

[Mojoe]

So if I am reading this right, regardless of if you were doing what the ticket says your were doing, fight it if you think you can beat the cop on what they wrote on the ticket?

 

Green bike, white bike, was it painted and the plates come up as the other color?

 

I'm not getting into the argument of justifying a cop's time. That is endless and will go no where.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Mojoe

[truckin]

33 between Bowen rd and Carroll is a major speed trap, it's worse around Diley rd and Pleasantville rd. It's been this way for the last 5-7 yrs. And with the new interchange at Carroll it's worse. Pay the ticket and move on.

[truckin]

^ Amen. I have nothing but immense respect for city police that are actively out in the communities patrolling/preventing legitimate crime, but I do not give two flying fucks about the state troopers that hide behind concrete pillars with their cars that are obviously designed to blend in in the middle of the vast, empty, open, high-visibility, flat wasteland that is like 80% of Ohio outside of the cities who do nothing but issue tickets to drivers simply trying to reduce the amount of time spent in this nothingness by 15-20 minutes.

 

I recently drove to Miami, FL. Leaving Ohio, our count was 9 OSHP. West Virginia to Miami, the TOTAL was 4 cops.

 

Fuck the Ohio State Highway Patrol.

 

 

Yeah what dicks.....I really hate that they do their jobs enforcing laws trying to prevent auto accidents that could've been prevented. And what assholes for patrolling Ohio's roadways preventing the flow of narcotics into our communities. And how dare these worthless fucks help stranded motorist change a tire or providing a safe visible barrier to those same people. God forbid someone slows down or leaves for work 15 min earlier.

[sol740]

Yeah what dicks.....I really hate that they do their jobs enforcing laws trying to prevent auto accidents that could've been prevented. And what assholes for patrolling Ohio's roadways preventing the flow of narcotics into our communities. And how dare these worthless fucks help stranded motorist change a tire or providing a safe visible barrier to those same people. God forbid someone slows down or leaves for work 15 min earlier.

 

Speeding tickets have less to do with safety, and more to do with revenue generation. There are safer ways to operate highways that would promote flow of traffic, but would require mostly eliminating speed limits.

 

Narcotics? The police earn money by the literal truckoad, seize assets, and not to mention justify an entire special agency dedicated to the shell game, all under the guise of helping us fight the scourge of drugs. Drugs that would be far less harmful to the user, and not make violent psychopaths rich, were they simply available, and we could treat it as a healthcare issue, instead of a criminal one. But then how would we fill up the prisons, right?

 

Now helping stranded motorists, sure that's great, that's the kind of stuff they should be doing, but they don't set up "help the citizen" operations.

[RC K9]

Speeding tickets have less to do with safety, and more to do with revenue generation. There are safer ways to operate highways that would promote flow of traffic, but would require mostly eliminating speed limits.

 

This.

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Pay your ticket or fight it in court. It is your right. Either way you will pay more than then the citations value. Fairfield county may dismiss the citation unless it's from OHP.

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Speeding tickets have less to do with safety, and more to do with revenue generation. There are safer ways to operate highways that would promote flow of traffic, but would require mostly eliminating speed limits.

 

Narcotics? The police earn money by the literal truckoad, seize assets, and not to mention justify an entire special agency dedicated to the shell game, all under the guise of helping us fight the scourge of drugs. Drugs that would be far less harmful to the user, and not make violent psychopaths rich, were they simply available, and we could treat it as a healthcare issue, instead of a criminal one. But then how would we fill up the prisons, right?

 

Now helping stranded motorists, sure that's great, that's the kind of stuff they should be doing, but they don't set up "help the citizen" operations.

 

I can say with absolute certainty and you've only heard about 10% of the narcotics being stopped in state of Ohio. A lot of it doesn't get plastered all over the 10tv app because pending investigation.

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Yeah what dicks.....I really hate that they do their jobs enforcing laws trying to prevent auto accidents that could've been prevented. And what assholes for patrolling Ohio's roadways preventing the flow of narcotics into our communities. And how dare these worthless fucks help stranded motorist change a tire or providing a safe visible barrier to those same people. God forbid someone slows down or leaves for work 15 min earlier.

 

I wish I had a slow clap .gif for you.

[Geeto67]

I'm not getting into the argument of justifying a cop's time. That is endless and will go no where.

 

You are not getting into that argument Joe because there is no argument you can make about their court appearance that doesn't involve asking a US citizen to waive their constitutional rights. It's a loser of an argument Joe.

 

Just accept that is is a Police Officer's duty and obligation to defend every single accusation he or she makes. Every single one, no exceptions, and regardless as to the reason why the accused chooses to contest the charge. It is a constitutionally protected right and core to our justice system.

[STEVE-O]

You are not getting into that argument Joe because there is no argument you can make about their court appearance that doesn't involve asking a US citizen to waive their constitutional rights. It's a loser of an argument Joe.

 

Just accept that is is a Police Officer's duty and obligation to defend every single accusation he or she makes. Every single one, no exceptions, and regardless as to the reason why the accused chooses to contest the charge. It is a constitutionally protected right and core to our justice system.

 

Let me try to phrase this for his point to better suit you...

he is not saying give up your rights. he is also not saying if you are indeed not guilty of said crime to fight it.

 

He is saying that as a citizen if you knowingly did 100% commit the crime you have been accused of, pay your time/money and deal with it because a cops time fighting actual crime is better suited than him in court to prove now for the 2nd time you are in fact at fault and just want to see with by the book what you can get away with.

[sol740]

Let me try to phrase this for his point to better suit you...

he is not saying give up your rights. he is also not saying if you are indeed not guilty of said crime to fight it.

 

He is saying that as a citizen if you knowingly did 100% commit the crime you have been accused of, pay your time/money and deal with it because a cops time fighting actual crime is better suited than him in court to prove now for the 2nd time you are in fact at fault and just want to see with by the book what you can get away with.

 

If your insurance costs may go up because you lose a "safe driver discount" or whatever, it's worth your time to fight it. Whether or not you believe 100% that you're guilty. I believe Geeto is pointing out the innocence or guilt of the party is irrelevant, due process is a right.

 

Of course you or Joe, or anyone can think whatever they want about someone exercising that right. There are plenty of people who feel such distaste for people who carry firearms.

[Geeto67]

Let me try to phrase this for his point to better suit you...

he is not saying give up your rights. he is also not saying if you are indeed not guilty of said crime to fight it.

 

He is saying that as a citizen if you knowingly did 100% commit the crime you have been accused of, pay your time/money and deal with it because a cops time fighting actual crime is better suited than him in court to prove now for the 2nd time you are in fact at fault and just want to see with by the book what you can get away with.

 

I got his point. The mistake is thinking that "fighting crime" excludes the part where the officer has to testify and defend his accusation. Remember it is an accusation, it is not a determination of guilt or innocence. It is not nor will it ever be a "waste of a police officers time" to defend their accusation - regardless of the reason why a person chooses to exercise their constitutional right as a citizen.

 

Speeding is one of the few crimes that police actually capture in progress. The Overwhelming majority is after the fact investigation and again testimony and defending the accusation is part of the judicial process. The methods of the government in any accusation must always be able to withstand scrutiny to avoid impinging on a citizens rights. A lot of law enforcement is based on credibility, and if your methods aren't credible then you can't really be metering out justice.

 

Let's take the example of aerial enforcement speeding. It is not the most accurate method of law enforcement because

 

- it requires 2 officers at different positions, one to initially identify and time and one to make the stop, and a hand off between the two. One of the officers is not close enough to relay positive identification (can't read a license plate from a cessna 1500 feet in the air). The potential for error in stopping the wrong vehicle is high

 

- actual measurement of the crime depends on a lot of factors that are not always considered. Airspeed vs ground speed, angle of perspective to the "start/finish" lines, the actual length of the lines (distances under at least a mile apart have been shown to be extremely inaccurate, as is speeds measured around curves). It is also mostly a manual process as even VASCAR requires the pilot to flip a switch the moment the car crosses the start line, and every microsecond delay causes a higher speed reading.

 

- it is extremely expensive and does not actually contribute to highway safety. The 55 federally mandated speed limit was imposed as a response to the fuel crisis of the 1970's and has everything to do with fuel economy and nothing to do with safety. In most states that have increased their limits to 70 or 75 they saw no significant increase in traffic accidents, neither have any studies shown that accidents decreased when the initial limit of 55 (down from 75) was placed (some argue that traffic fatalities decreased but that had more to do with automobile safety at the time - most cars of that era still on the road didn't have more than lap belts). By the way it costs roughly about $100+ an hour (excluding personnel costs) to operate a small aircraft. Compare that to what it costs to operate a cruiser and a Lidar gun. But speed enforcement makes the most money so it gets to spend the most on toys. Does this mean they get to use it for other things like rescue and fugitive operations? sure, but those don't really pay for it - speeding does.

 

So how does the enforcement arm counter these issues? Do they review the process and try to improve the efficiency? do they focus on more effective ways of reducing speeding? no they lower the fine so as to incentivize people not to fight it out of convenience. That means they are probably wrong more often than gets reported. If everyone fought their tickets then the problems would be better exposed, but for such a small amount of money who has the time?

[Geeto67]

If your insurance costs may go up because you lose a "safe driver discount" or whatever, it's worth your time to fight it. Whether or not you believe 100% that you're guilty. I believe Geeto is pointing out the innocence or guilt of the party is irrelevant, due process is a right.

 

Of course you or Joe, or anyone can think whatever they want about someone exercising that right. There are plenty of people who feel such distaste for people who carry firearms.

 

All this.

 

But I will add something else. Public moral shaming is a technique to in alter human behavior. It is not new, anybody who has read the scarlet letter will know this, and there are times where it may even be appropriate - like if you are trying to convince someone not to commit an illegal act.

 

However, when you use moral shaming to try and get someone to not exercise their legal rights under due process, by saying "it is a waste of a cops time" or "they should take personal responsibility", it is not appropriate. By the way I hope the irony wasn't lost on anyone that I used the same technique to try and get those doing it to rethink it by calling it despicable and unamerican.

 

you want to shame someone into not speeding, or not stealing go right ahead. you want to shame someone into not exercising their constitutionally protected rights? that's pretty unamerican.

 

carry on.

[Zx2guy19]

I got his point. The mistake is thinking that....blah blah blah

 

Dude, your responses are outrageously long- I really think you truly just like to hear yourself talk. It's pretty fucking annoying.

[SRTurbo04]

Dude, your responses are outrageously long- I really think you truly just like to hear yourself talk. It's pretty fucking annoying.

 

x2 mother of freaking god!

[criitter7]

I always had fun flying low along the highway in the old retired highway patrol airplane. Still painted in highway patrol colors. Not sure if I made anybody panic but I like to think I did.

[Geeto67]

Dude, your responses are outrageously long- I really think you truly just like to hear yourself talk. It's pretty fucking annoying.

 

I the majority of my job is writing lengthy things. I type roughly 80 words per minute and when it comes to this forum I kind of just let it stream out of my head. I also read 2-3 books a month so I read fast as well, and I kind of think internet culture has reduced attention spans.

[zeitgeist57]

...and I kind of think internet culture has reduced attention spans.

 

No, the guys are right: you're responses are just too long. :gabe:

 

I think the better measure of your intelligence would be to somehow funnel your stream-of-consciousness responses down to 2-3 sentences, proofread to verify your thoughts are sufficiently communicated, and THEN make a post.