Geeto67 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Carrying legally, creates a lot of additional frustrations and responsibilities. People cutting corners to have a gun on them is a scary risk. By cutting corners I mean, gun in a back pack/ off body with no holster, bags being forgotten around campus with a gun in it (happens every day), and many other things that will need to be addressed and reminded to students who decide to carry. Joe Nails it with this. If this passes this is all it brings to the table. College Campuses are usually well patrolled and already pretty secure. The most recent incident actually lasted barely longer than a minute from the first stabbing to the shot that killed the assailant, you aren't really going to improve that response time. Granted there were other factors here like fire department being onsite at the time of the incident but Police patrol of college campuses is already high and response time is pretty great (most campuses have police stations in close proximity as well, OSU has one on campus one block south of Lane ave on Kenny Rd). There is literally no real value to students, faculty, or visitors by allowing CCW on a college campus, the value is all to the politicians who can grandstand by making this look like they are doing something when they are not. College campuses are concentrated populations where accidents and carelessness can magnify the tragedy. They are also populations that are extremely susceptible to suicide (most of the top tier colleges track higher than the national average) so it is not an "ideal" environment to introduce risks that track higher along those metrics like possession of a firearm. I just don't think the false sense of safety is worth the extra risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelloman4571647545499 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I feel it is better to have the right people carrying guns who are trained then every shit bag at that university over 21 because they are now allowed to. 5 trained is better than 10 untrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangsn95gt Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 College Campuses are usually well patrolled and already pretty secure. The most recent incident actually lasted barely longer than a minute from the first stabbing to the shot that killed the assailant, you aren't really going to improve that response time. IMO OSU police got lucky the guy stayed outside instead of entering one of the buildings. Once that guy goes in a building the time of the incident would of drastically increased due to having to go room to room and class to class clearing students along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 That whole campus is sketchy. Poorly lit parking lots, interesting demographics, and less than motivated security. Yep. I avoid scheduling classes there. Ill go to Delaware or others first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 IMO OSU police got lucky the guy stayed outside instead of entering one of the buildings. Once that guy goes in a building the time of the incident would of drastically increased due to having to go room to room and class to class clearing students along the way. OSU Police were lucky that the officer was already on scene responding about a call of a gas leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangsn95gt Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 OSU Police were lucky that the officer was already on scene responding about a call of a gas leak. I was wondering how he responded so fast. I didn't know PD was already on scene too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I was wondering how he responded so fast. I didn't know PD was already on scene too. Yeah, there was a gas leak report next door. Call came through the radio and the attacker was right there when the cop heard it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yeah, there was a gas leak report next door. Call came through the radio and the attacker was right there when the cop heard it Heard it? he saw it and called it in at 9:52. At 9:53 the assailant was dead. https://news.osu.edu/news/2016/11/28/officials-recap-details-of-campus-incident/ According to University Police, Horujko reported an emergency to dispatch at 9:52 a.m. It was later confirmed that the car, driven by Artan, went onto a sidewalk and struck multiple pedestrians near the corner of West 19th Avenue and College Road on the Columbus campus. Within seconds, Horujko reported an officer in trouble as the suspect exited his car with a large knife and began stabbing individuals. The suspect did not comply with Horujko and the officer shot and killed the suspect at 9:53 a.m. But that's kind of my point - There are Security and Police (OSU has both) on campus constantly. Maybe you don't always notice them but there is never one more than a few minutes away at any given time. They are always going to have a response time better than any residential neighborhood or business district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Joe Nails it with this. If this passes this is all it brings to the table. College Campuses are usually well patrolled and already pretty secure. The most recent incident actually lasted barely longer than a minute from the first stabbing to the shot that killed the assailant, you aren't really going to improve that response time. Granted there were other factors here like fire department being onsite at the time of the incident but Police patrol of college campuses is already high and response time is pretty great (most campuses have police stations in close proximity as well, OSU has one on campus one block south of Lane ave on Kenny Rd). There is literally no real value to students, faculty, or visitors by allowing CCW on a college campus, the value is all to the politicians who can grandstand by making this look like they are doing something when they are not. College campuses are concentrated populations where accidents and carelessness can magnify the tragedy. They are also populations that are extremely susceptible to suicide (most of the top tier colleges track higher than the national average) so it is not an "ideal" environment to introduce risks that track higher along those metrics like possession of a firearm. I just don't think the false sense of safety is worth the extra risk. You're referring to this situation like it's the norm; it's not. I do agree that campus security at major universities is usually pretty good, but they can't be everywhere. We just got lucky this time that an on-duty officer just happened to be standing there when shit popped off. I feel it is better to have the right people carrying guns who are trained then every shit bag at that university over 21 because they are now allowed to. 5 trained is better than 10 untrained. I agree with this, however, I don't think that just because you can carry on campus that you automatically turn into a shit bag. Do we worry about these folks when they're not on campus (as was the case that every Anti brought up when CCW was on the rise, yet never came to fruition)? No. So I don't worry about it now just because they can move a few blocks inward. IMO OSU police got lucky the guy stayed outside instead of entering one of the buildings. Once that guy goes in a building the time of the incident would of drastically increased due to having to go room to room and class to class clearing students along the way. Yup. Not to mention, it was a knife and not a gun, which is usually the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 You're referring to this situation like it's the norm; it's not. I do agree that campus security at major universities is usually pretty good, but they can't be everywhere. We just got lucky this time that an on-duty officer just happened to be standing there when shit popped off. I fully admit it isn't the norm, but it's not all that far from it and also not really good justification for permitting CCW on campus. A panicked person "defending them-self" is not the same thing as a trained officer. If the purpose is to cut down on risk exposure till the threat is neutralized, you aren't going to get better than the response times that you will see on college campuses by PD. The danger isn't the weapon it's the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I fully admit it isn't the norm, but it's not all that far from it and also not really good justification for permitting CCW on campus. A panicked person "defending them-self" is not the same thing as a trained officer. If the purpose is to cut down on risk exposure till the threat is neutralized, you aren't going to get better than the response times that you will see on college campuses by PD. The danger isn't the weapon it's the people. Exactly. Bad people will find ways to use weapons to hurt other innocent people regardless of what laws are in place. All this is doing is allowing law abiding citizens the right to carry a weapon to protect themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Heard it? he saw it and called it in at 9:52. At 9:53 the assailant was dead. https://news.osu.edu/news/2016/11/28/officials-recap-details-of-campus-incident/ But that's kind of my point - There are Security and Police (OSU has both) on campus constantly. Maybe you don't always notice them but there is never one more than a few minutes away at any given time. They are always going to have a response time better than any residential neighborhood or business district. The response time is OK. We are 3 minutes from Blankenship and the response time is about 5-6 minutes on a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 The response time is OK. We are 3 minutes from Blankenship and the response time is about 5-6 minutes on a good day. the average police response time in Hillard in 2013 was approx 8 minutes (7:51 to be precise). So 5-6 minutes is better than OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwilli1647545487 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 the average police response time in Hillard in 2013 was approx 8 minutes (7:51 to be precise). So 5-6 minutes is better than OK. 8 minutes might as well be 10 years when you are defending your life. The majority of violent encounters are usually over in under a minute. Remind me again how many people were injured in the osu 60 second response time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 the average police response time in Hillard in 2013 was approx 8 minutes (7:51 to be precise). So 5-6 minutes is better than OK. 3 minutes from Blankenship means we are literally 3 minutes from the station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 8 minutes might as well be 10 years when you are defending your life. The majority of violent encounters are usually over in under a minute. Remind me again how many people were injured in the osu 60 second response time? HOWARD TO THE RESCUE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 There is literally no real value to students, faculty, or visitors by allowing CCW on a college campus, until the moment one of them is involved in this type of situation. Howard is spot on. no way I'd want to be in that situation unarmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Joe Nails it with this. If this passes this is all it brings to the table. College Campuses are usually well patrolled and already pretty secure. The most recent incident actually lasted barely longer than a minute from the first stabbing to the shot that killed the assailant, you aren't really going to improve that response time. Granted there were other factors here like fire department being onsite at the time of the incident but Police patrol of college campuses is already high and response time is pretty great (most campuses have police stations in close proximity as well, OSU has one on campus one block south of Lane ave on Kenny Rd). There is literally no real value to students, faculty, or visitors by allowing CCW on a college campus, the value is all to the politicians who can grandstand by making this look like they are doing something when they are not. College campuses are concentrated populations where accidents and carelessness can magnify the tragedy. They are also populations that are extremely susceptible to suicide (most of the top tier colleges track higher than the national average) so it is not an "ideal" environment to introduce risks that track higher along those metrics like possession of a firearm. I just don't think the false sense of safety is worth the extra risk. Link me at least 3 stories where a CCW holder caused more harm by responding to a threat than to let an attacker go on. I'll wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted February 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Update, Kasich signed it into law. E-mail sent out today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Gun doesn't do a fucking lick of good sitting in a glovebox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey2721 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Joe Nails it with this. If this passes this is all it brings to the table. College Campuses are usually well patrolled and already pretty secure. The most recent incident actually lasted barely longer than a minute from the first stabbing to the shot that killed the assailant, you aren't really going to improve that response time. Granted there were other factors here like fire department being onsite at the time of the incident but Police patrol of college campuses is already high and response time is pretty great (most campuses have police stations in close proximity as well, OSU has one on campus one block south of Lane ave on Kenny Rd). There is literally no real value to students, faculty, or visitors by allowing CCW on a college campus, the value is all to the politicians who can grandstand by making this look like they are doing something when they are not. College campuses are concentrated populations where accidents and carelessness can magnify the tragedy. They are also populations that are extremely susceptible to suicide (most of the top tier colleges track higher than the national average) so it is not an "ideal" environment to introduce risks that track higher along those metrics like possession of a firearm. I just don't think the false sense of safety is worth the extra risk. what about the girl who would normally have her chl being attacked and raped? oh i forgot she is supposed to pee herself while blowing a whistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammit Charlie Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Gun doesn't do a fucking lick of good sitting in a glovebox. Yep. I had high hopes for this Bill, sad to see nothing will actually change. I'm sure that gun in the glove box will stop a machete wielding maniac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Let's try to be a little open minded to progressive change. Many here get what it would take to make a difference. However, the masses don't do well with taking big steps. Look at current immigration change and requirements. The policy posted from CSCC may just end there, or it may be a situation that is revisited with more places to carry down the road. Guns are a scary thing on any campus, and a hot button for protest. Had the school gone to CHL holders can carry anywhere on campus, imagine the possibilities for student dis-enrollment, protest, and any other anti gun issues. I can see this as a safe step for the school, and it being revisited in the future. Violent crimes on campus pre "gun in car" vs post "gun in car" will be looked at and nothing will likely change. This is also a campus the does not have a publicized gun related incident to compare stats to. Again, many of us here are gun friendly. We want no infringement on having a gun. But, we also aren't the issue that has caused the infringements that are in place now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey2721 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 what is so different about a college campus than anywhere else where carry is legal? what magical thing happens when you step onto sacred campus grounds that makes a chl different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 what is so different about a college campus than anywhere else where carry is legal? what magical thing happens when you step onto sacred campus grounds that makes a chl different? This is from the Attorney General's site. I don't feel it is updated and reads that there really is not a difference with what Jones posted. Read pages 10 and 11, that I pasted below. http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Files/Publications-Files/Publications-for-Law-Enforcement/Concealed-Carry-Publications/Concealed-Carry-Laws-Manual-(PDF) Forbidden Carry Zones The law sets forth several places where your license does not allow you to carry a handgun. Under the law, you may not carry a concealed handgun into the following places: • Police stations • Sheriffs’ offices • Highway Patrol posts • Premises controlled by BCI • Correctional institutions or other detention facilities • Airport terminals or airplanes • Facilities for the care of mentally ill persons • Courthouses or buildings in which a courtroom is located • Universities, unless locked in a motor vehicle or in the process of being locked in a motor vehicle • Places of worship, unless the place of worship permits otherwise • Child day-care centers • Licensed Class D liquor permit premises, if you are consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or are under the influence. If you are not consuming, and not under the influence, you may carry unless there is a conspicuous sign prohibiting carry. Possession of a concealed firearm is allowed in a retail store with a D-6 or D-8 permit as long as the concealed carry license holder is not consuming liquor. Class D permits are generally issued to an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises. In any event, do not consume beer or intoxicating liquor before carrying a concealed handgun into a licensed premises or while on the premises. • Government facilities that are not used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and are not a courthouse or a building or structure in which a courtroom is located. • School safety zones A “school safety zone” includes a school, school building, school premises, school activity, and school bus. For purposes of this statute, a school includes everything up to the property boundary. If you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun, you may carry a handgun into a school safety zone only if you do not enter a school building, school premises, or school activity. You also must not be in one of the places listed in ORC 2923.126(B). You may be in a motor vehicle and immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child. You also must comply with all other laws governing the transportation of firearms in a motor vehicle. Here is the full version to know with the change. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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