Anybody ever try Swirl Painting or Hydro Dipping?

[Geeto67]

so...I am getting ready to finish a couple of projects, specifically refinishing a 1996 Fender Jagstang and painting the tank and fender on my 1974 Sportster. I have been obsessing over swirl painting or hyrdo dipping videos on youtube because I think this is a neat effect and I want to try it out for both things. Here are some examples of the finishes I am talking about:

 

http://www.etguitars.com/images/customguitars/paintfinishes/GMC%20swirl.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.elusivesound.com/pics/UV03.jpg

 

the process is similar to Hydro graphics except instead of floating a film on the surface of the water you are floating actual oil based paint.

 

So has anybody tried this in real life? If so what got you the best results? has anybody tried this with actual automotive paint or even automotive touch up paint?

[Benner]

Actually curious to find this out as well. Just got a set of wheels for my Yukon that need some paint after I clean them up do to chrome peal

[Diamonds]

Off topic... literally the gayest AR15 I've ever seen.

[Geeto67]

Then you have not seen the OMG AR15 Unicorn:

 

http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/unicorn-gun-21.jpg

 

 

http://www.guns.com/2012/02/10/omg-ar-15-unicorn-zombie-rifle-extraordinaire-video/

[Diamonds]

I stick with my statement

[Geeto67]

LOL.

 

 

Just to get this conversation back on track, I bought out the only Humbrol supplier in columbus (Grandview Hobbies) of some basic colors like black, metallic red, and metallic blue, (at $1.60 a tin) and I went out to the garage and dusted off the testors paints I have for my models and ordered a metallic gold. The concern I have is that none of the paints are UV protected paints. I plan on top coating with a UV protected clear like duplicolor's perfect match clear, or spraymax glamour gloss coat but I am still worried about the color fading over time. I am probably going to use these hobby paints for the guitar but not the motorcycle.

 

I also went on amazon and ordered some 3ml disposable pipette droppers I think I am going to try dipping some throw away parts next week as a test. From what I have seen so far the best results come from people laying the paint on top of still water rather than dropping it in from any height. There are guys that use spray cans and to do this and from what I have seen of their results the swirls are stringier and the paint tends to skin over more often (skinned over paint leads to blotchy patches), probably due to it drying as it heads toward the water, and also the disruption of the water shooting compressed gasses at it.

 

floating the paint on the surface of the water tends to spread it really thin so not a lot of paint is needed for a large coverage area. Because of that I am thinking I am going to try to experiment with some touch up paint bottles from like autozone. If anybody has some old automotive gloss paint they want to donate to the cause of experimentation let me know.

[iwashmycar]

Would water type make any difference? Like using distilled?

 

Just thinking about it drying....If I dump tap water on your hood...spots... distilled. likely none.

[Geeto67]

Would water type make any difference? Like using distilled?

 

Just thinking about it drying....If I dump tap water on your hood...spots... distilled. likely none.

 

it's funny, but in all the tutorials I have watched and read they never mention a difference between distilled and tap. Since a lot of the bigger parts require 35-50 gallons of water most people use what comes out of the tap, but I can see how a hard water like we have here in ohio could have an effect on an oil based solvent paint.

 

There are some key items of prep involved in the water:

 

Borax: For Oil based acrylic enamel (Testors, Hombrol, other hobby paint) they recommend adding 1.5 tablespoons of borax per gallon of water. This is to increase the buoyancy of the paint in the water, increase the water's surface tension, soften the water, and act as a partial temporary glaze and water barrier on the enamel (borax is an ingredient in most enamels).

 

There are specialty paints that don't require the borax, like magic marble and 1 shot lettering paint, but as I understand it magic marble is incompatible with most automotive clear coats (they recommend a Varnish safe for acrylic paint though some have had success with rustoleum enamel clear coat). 1 shot needs a hardner to enable it to be cleared over, otherwise it is too soft and will lift any clear coat.

 

For some reason a lot of people are tight lipped about using automotive paints. I think this is what most pro's use but because they do it for a living they are reluctant to share - or maybe they get crappy results and they don't want to talk about it. the you tube videos can be literally divided into two types: amateurs using hobby enamel who talk a lot about what gives them "pretty good" results, and pros who won't discuss any materials or prep at all and just make trippy videos of guitar bodies going into industrial tanks with prog rock soundtracks. If you are drunk or otherwise chemically enhanced, watching deanswirlled on youtube dunk guitar bodies in multicolor swirls is really soothing.

 

Drying: The general consensus is that the paint spreads so thin on the surface it dries almost instantly once removed from the water. However, almost every tutorial recommends having a hair drier or air hose set to low pressure to blow off the excess water clinging to the body. Too much air pressure and you may cause runs and skinning on any thick blotchy area. most noted that there are going to be one or two areas where the water got between the paint and the surface and caused a bubble. The recommendation there is to let it dry and evaporate and then touch up as appropriate. Everyone recommends at least a 24 hour drying period before applying clear coat. They also recommend single stage gloss paint as it is less porous and will cause less water to form bubbles, and will bond with the borax.

 

Temperature: There is some split on this. some say you need the water to be 75 degrees to keep the paint in suspension. Too hot and it will dry and skin on the surface, too cold and the paint will take longer to dry and the risk of runs increases. BTW runs are important to avoid because the paint layer is so thin that you can't sand without removing the swirl you were trying to get in the first place. Most recommend at least 3 coats of spray clear before sanding for the first time. People that use rattle cans prefer not to heat the water, possible because aerated rattle can paint dries quicker than pant in liquid suspension and the cold slows down the drying. Magic Marble doesn't require it but it is recommended. When I look at a lot of the pro jobs I always see a heater in the tank but they also seem to be using a slightly thicker paint than what comes out of a testors bottle. This will be the biggest variable for experimentation for me I think.

 

there are all my observational notes so far, someone suggested I try an look for some white xmas tree balls on sale to experiment with because 1) they are cheap, 2) they are a complex form, 3) if you don't screw it up you get something you can actually use on your xmas tree. now where do I find Christmas balls in august?

 

[Geeto67]

Ok so I tried it:

 

IMG_7232

[Geeto67]

IMG_7231

[Geeto67]

IMG_7241

[Geeto67]

IMG_7238

[Otis Nice]

That actually doesn't look half bad at all for a first time and I love the bike.

[Geeto67]

So I mad a lot of mistakes doing this. I didn't get the borax to dissolve in the pail causing the gold to sink to the bottom more often than I liked. I didn't do a great job prepping the underlying bodywork so up close one part of the bondo shows through slightly. I wasn't careful about the base coats either so at one point the sandable primer sucked all the gloss out of the gloss enamel base coat. And I didn't get all the old paint off the fender and it reacted with some of the primer requiring some extra sanding. All in all I am impressed with the results despite the setbacks and flaws. I did this in a garbage can with hobby paint and rattle cans.

 

It has 3 coats of rattle can clear on it and it needs 3 more, a 600 then 1000 wet sand, and a cut and buff. Then it will be perfect. Honestly for the first time it was kind of ambitious and I didn't realize it. I had to do the fender 4 times till I got the pattern I wanted but the tank I got on the first try.

 

If I had to do it again I would manage the water better, and I would use the humbrol paint only, the testers was much harder to work with. In fact I think I might try real automotive paint next time.

 

In case anybody is wondering the colors are humbrol metallic black and testors metallic gold over Toyota granite black. Up close it looks like the cosmos as there are subtle contrasts between the two blacks with the gold floating over. There are a few small areas where the paint got blotchy and thick but otherwise it's almost a molecule thin over the surface. Compared to any kind of spraying I have done this is the least wasteful method of getting color on a surface without using a brush.

 

Questions?

 

Thanks, yenner.

[Geeto67]

This pic shows the clear coat a little better. Sorry for the crappy cell pics, I had to catch a plane back to Ohio and was a bit rushed:

 

IMG_7235

[xlr8tn]

I did some drum sticks for my son a couple years ago. They came out halfway decent. I want to revisit this at some point. It helps if you have a second set of hands around just to help you move the paint to the side when lifting out if nothing else.

[Geeto67]

I did some drum sticks for my son a couple years ago. They came out halfway decent. I want to revisit this at some point. It helps if you have a second set of hands around just to help you move the paint to the side when lifting out if nothing else.

 

you ain't kidding. If someone was experienced at this or was doing something small and manageable it's easily a one person job. however as a newbie to it I had my father and my friend help me out. Dad filled the garbage can and regulated the temp. I did this at his house so we could use the back deck shower for the pool to put hot water into the bucket instead of having cold water and heating it up.

 

While I prepped the parts and paint, my buddy tended the swirl paint already in the water and helped to remove skins and clumps. We did this in direct sunlight on a hot day which was kind of a mistake as well because the paint skinned faster than we thought.

 

I prepped the paint by stirring and the parts by wiping down with first lacquer thinner and then a tack cloth. I also dunked the parts and removed them which means I had to wear gloves. Dad would clear the surface paint with compressed air when I was ready to pull the fender and tank out. Once out of the water he would blow it off with the air compressor. Have to be careful with the air compressor as too high a pressure and you can blow the paint into splatters - It's a cool effect but not one you want to discover accidentally as we did (hence why we ended up dunking the fender several more times).

 

some more tips:

- you must stir the paint. Simply shaking the can/bottle isn't enough. In both brands of paint used physically stirring the paint for about a minute with a small stick have much better results.

 

- at one point we tried both dipping into and removing from the water as a way of applying the paint. Dipping into def works better, mostly because the pressure of the water pushes the paint on to the surface as you press into it and you get long continuous swirls. pulling out made for short choppy blobs of paint that didn't look all that great.

 

- watch the clock. Working time for this is very short and gets shorter because of conditions. from first putting the paint on the surface to removing the dunked part it's best to keep it under 5 minutes to keep paint skinning to a minimum.

 

- don't over stir. I can't tell you how many times we had great patterns and screwed them up because we wanted to see how much further we could swirl the design.

 

- make sure you have enough paint to touch up after. Fish eyes are a part of this process unfortunately. Water sometimes gets trapped in between the paint and the surface and makes a small bubble that pops while drying and leaves a small dot. It's super easy to cover up with a small brush. Additionally I stupidly dropped the tank at one point and scratched it down to the white primer in a few places which I was then able to mostly touch up with a drybrush technique without making it look obvious.