Geeto67 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 We already know simply taking an asylum claim and letting them walk around our country is a bad and quite dumb thing to do. Is that a known thing? I have never once seen any data to support this assertion - just the movie scarface which is fiction and was xenophobic to begin with (and based on an even more xenophobic anti Italian movie from the 1930's). It is a fact that asylum seekers, and immigrants in general tend to commit less crime than domestic borne citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#United_States less likely to use social programs: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/4/16094684/trump-immigrants-welfare and actually add to the success of natural borne citizens and have for hundreds of years http://cmsny.org/from-the-archive-immigrants-make-americans-successful/ https://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/The-Many-Contributions-of-Immigrants-to-the-American-Economy.aspx https://www.unidosus.org/issues/immigration/resources/facts so where do you get this idea from Tim? I mean honestly, you just sound like the dude who bitches about cab drivers not being able to speak perfect English, and that is why we shouldn't let anybody in to the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 it's their job to follow the process like my grand parents and I'm assuming yours too. Mine came through Ellis Island and followed the rules. They didn't simply walk in with demands or expectations of being allowed to roam free from day one. asylum is part of the process. It's a legal way to enter the country. The original pilgrims were asylum seekers fleeing england - they found it in this country so it has always been a part of the make up of the US. Modern asylum requirements date back to 1951 and the international treaty on refugees. It's been a long established law. Thinking asylum seekers are illegal aliens is factually incorrect. Tim, just stop being full of shit and own your xenophobia. You hate foreigners, esp ones who don't look like you and you have a hard time communicating with. Hell, you even dislike Americans who don't speak your language or "assimilate" as you often say - this isn't about the "bad" of granting asylum to vulnerable people, it's just you being uncomfortable with people who don't look and sound like you and your paranoia that they are talking about you when they are talking in a foreign language near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 My grandparents were literally immigrants who came to this country with nothing... What reasons do you have for thinking that these folks are going to be a generational burden on society that totally aren't based on xenophobia? I’m guessing your grandparents also had to bust their ass to support themselves and their families, right? You don’t think giving families financial freedom breeds dependency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I’m guessing your grandparents also had to bust their ass to support themselves and their families, right? You don’t think giving families financial freedom breeds dependency? No, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 No, I don't. Was that your way of answering my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 ??? I literally answered your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I guess the welfare system is working great! Kids with parents who are on welfare surely have high rates of not becoming dependent on the Government when they become adults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Regular non-disabled adults can't be long-term dependent on the US government because we have no programs that do that. I say this knowing full well that Kerry has already schooled you, specifically, on this fact at least half a dozen times, and he's probably typing up a response right now that will school you again, but you refuse to educate yourself on the policies of the country you live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Is that a known thing? I have never once seen any data to support this assertion - just the movie scarface which is fiction and was xenophobic to begin with (and based on an even more xenophobic anti Italian movie from the 1930's). It is a fact that asylum seekers, and immigrants in general tend to commit less crime than domestic borne citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#United_States less likely to use social programs: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/4/16094684/trump-immigrants-welfare and actually add to the success of natural borne citizens and have for hundreds of years http://cmsny.org/from-the-archive-immigrants-make-americans-successful/ https://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/The-Many-Contributions-of-Immigrants-to-the-American-Economy.aspx https://www.unidosus.org/issues/immigration/resources/facts so where do you get this idea from Tim? I mean honestly, you just sound like the dude who bitches about cab drivers not being able to speak perfect English, and that is why we shouldn't let anybody in to the country. Those links do not break down the data enough to prove anything conclusive due to the populations of higher education and income before coming to the country skewing the data. Do you have anything that breaks it down to the level of country of origin, education, yearly income in country of origin, etc? There is a lady from Haiti on my team that her parents were granted political asylum. Both her parents have phd's and strong morals. I would literally trust her with my children and think highly of them. Her entire family is amazing and are successful. I think what Tim is getting at, is why allow low income and low education immigrants into the country when we already have our own low income/skilled minorities that need the help 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I think what Tim is getting at, is why allow low income and low education immigrants into the country when we already have our own low income/skilled minorities that need the help 1st. Tim should ask his pastor/priest that question. I know he's very religious. Why help those in need? And why not help both groups of people? What would the big J do? That you do to the least of my people and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Tim should ask his pastor/priest that question. I know he's very religious. Why help those in need? And why not help both groups of people? What would the big J do? That you do to the least of my people and all that... So Kerry likes to inject race and you like to toy around with religion when neither is the issue nor brought up by those opposing you. Typical CR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I think what Tim is getting at, is why allow low income and low education immigrants into the country when we already have our own low income/skilled minorities that need the help 1st. You get it. Everything has limits including the numbers of those we as a country can take under our wing regardless of why they are coming to us. To not have limits or controls is irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Clearly religion isn't the issue because I'm an atheist and I still have the human decency to want to be nice to the less fortunate. I'll stop toying with it, don't want you to get your panties in a bunch and start feeling persecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 You get it. Everything has limits including the numbers of those we as a country can take under our wing regardless of why they are coming to us. To not have limits or controls is irresponsible. Greatest country on earth, can't take in 4000 people. MAGA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 You get it. Everything has limits including the numbers of those we as a country can take under our wing regardless of why they are coming to us. To not have limits or controls is irresponsible. There are limits and controls, very good ones. Just because you don't know what they are doesn't mean they don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Clearly religion isn't the issue because I'm an atheist and I still have the human decency to want to be nice to the less fortunate. Didn't know that and really don't need to know that but okay. Also, most everyone does but I don't support caravans of migrants forcing themselves into our country like this. they have been offered Asylum in Mexico but most are still heading here. Their plight doesn't automatically grant them some special privilege to storm across our borders. I'll stop toying with it, don't want you to get your panties in a bunch and start feeling persecuted.No you won't and I'm not. Greatest country on earth, can't take in 4000 people. MAGA! it's not entirely about whether we can or can't. just because we can doesn't mean we should. certainly not in every case. There are limits and controls, very good ones. Just because you don't know what they are doesn't mean they don't exist. I know and support their recent lowering of the numbers but caravans of people who will attempt and plan to attempt to sneak has a tolerance of zero in my book. We have a strong need to firm up the security around who gets to curb illegals. Edited November 2, 2018 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Tim do you feel bad about lying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Greatest country on earth, can't take in 4000 people. MAGA! 4000 people in this case. These people are seeking asylum because of violence and being poor. So because you're such a good person, you need to let everyone in from other countries who's facing violence and who is poor. I think that number just gained 3 more zeros. When it comes to being violent and/or poor, Honduras isn't really high on the list even, compared to some other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 If they want to come here and they meet the legal requirements for asylum, who am I to turn them away? Seems like the right thing to do for the richest, best country on Earth. But you wouldn't be using ridiculous scenarios to foment fear of foreigners, would you? Or just certain...types of foreigners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 If they want to come here and they meet the legal requirements for asylum, who am I to turn them away? Seems like the right thing to do for the richest, best country on Earth. But you wouldn't be using ridiculous scenarios to foment fear of foreigners, would you? Or just certain...types of foreigners? If they meet the requirements. Are any of these people fleeing because they fear persecution because of their: 1) Race 2) Religion 3) Nationality 4) Member of particular social group 5) Political opinion People get rejected all the time. Yeah, I'm very fearful of foreigners, they're all scum and they smell weird. Certain types? Absolutely. I don't want criminals, for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 If they meet the requirements. Are any of these people fleeing because they fear persecution because of their: 1) Race 2) Religion 3) Nationality 4) Member of particular social group 5) Political opinion People get rejected all the time. I posted the asylum law earlier, I'm not suggesting anyone be allowed to circumvent that. I don't think your list is exhaustive here in terms of reasons people can claim asylum, but I feel pretty comfortable letting whoever show up at our door and go through the process. Don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I posted the asylum law earlier, I'm not suggesting anyone be allowed to circumvent that. I don't think your list is exhaustive here in terms of reasons people can claim asylum, but I feel pretty comfortable letting whoever show up at our door and go through the process. Don't you? I'm glad you're willing to let them go through the process. I don't think most people are against that. The feeling I was getting is that you(plural) want to just open the borders for all the refugees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I'm glad you're willing to let them go through the process. I don't think most people are against that. The feeling I was getting is that you(plural) want to just open the borders for all the refugees. Well, Trump is against that. He's sending troops to the border to stop them all from even trying to go through the process. Tim here is telling lies here about how the caravan wants to circumvent the process. Brandon is parroting white nationalist conspiracy theories about George Soros funding the caravan, the same sort of conspiracy theories that Trump has helped to build momentum and the Pittsburgh shooter shot up a synagogue over. In fact, I'd say Republicans in general are against the asylum process because despite what they say, they think any immigrant who doesn't look and act a certain way is bad. In fact, I just heard Trump on the radio saying "If you want your children to have a country, vote Republican." Wink wink, dog whistle. eta: Of course, it's no accident that you think myself and others just want to "open the borders." Republicans have been telling lies about that for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Just to tag on to your excellent post greg, let's not forget that Trump, and many many many republicans, and republican supporters are also trying to end birthright citizenship for a lot of the same reasons, and are telling wild lies about it. Prior to the 1990's when this issue arose tied to immigration policy, It was mostly discussed in the context of excluding Native Americans and the children of imported slaves from being conferred citizenship. Both parties have owned this substantially bad idea, and both have been soundly rejected by the supreme court and federal jurisprudence. Why it will never work is that it cannot be uncoupled from the issue of racial discrimination - there is no policy that can be put into place that has a permissible exception to disparate impact or disparate treatment of a particular racial group. or in other words - 100s of years worth of judges, lawyers, and scholars, have said this is both unconstitutional and racist and just because YOU don't think it is, doesn't change that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Well, Trump is against that. He's sending troops to the border to stop them all from even trying to go through the process. I'm ok with the troops being there. There is a lot of people storming the border, they need to be there. They've been warned too, throw a rock, you eat lead. I guess we'll see how Trump handles it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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