Political Fart Noise Part II

[CRed05]

Ongoing, as in it still happens today.

 

 

 

All of them.

 

You're saying there are laws that exist today in this country that state you cannot be hired because you are a person of color/non-white?

 

 

 

Actually again this is untrue, and I don't think you know how it works. It is illegal to make a hiring decision based on race. "Affirmative action" only applies to govern't entities and contractors and higher education - and the focus is more on recruiting and managing the existing workforce to eliminate favoritism.

 

Doesn't matter to me if it's only limited to a certain area, or what the reason behind it is. Like you said, making a hiring decision based on race is illegal, and affirmative action is a decision made based on race.

 

Diversity hiring in private companies is voluntary, and again they can't use race as a hiring tactic, but they can evaluate their existing workforce and hiring practices to figure out why they aren't attracting diverse qualified candidates. this includes being more flexible about the job position (hours, WFH, child care, etc), and targeted recruiting. Remember, companies that do this want a diverse work force, they aren't being "forced" to take anybody they don't want to hire.

 

I don't have a problem with that because job flexibility opens it up to everyone.

 

but tell me again how companies are being forced to take the lesser qualified individual against their will - it makes a nice campfire story.

 

Didn't you just say that happens in Gov entities and higher education?

 

 

 

It's white supremacy, and it's posted on a known white supremacy blog. It has all the hall marks, it's based on incorrect information, and it uses the same fear mongering tactics and has the same agenda. Greg's not wrong about this, and I get given your context of being south african how you can be understanding of it, but I don't know why you keep making excuses for what is clearly white supremacy in the context of america.

 

All I can say here is that I don't agree it's white supremacy. Fear mongering, perhaps, but as a reaction to fear mongering.

 

 

 

I will give you this little gift though: There is one way in which white people are under attack. Culturally, we have not done enough to root out and eradicate white supremacy within our own ranks. We make excuses for it like you have done above, we allow people to make statements that "black people are lazy and that is why they haven't improved" or "the black community needs to account for it's criminals" and don't readily call it out as racism, and we let people use coded words to rail against programs and groups that promote diversity, unity, and equality. We pretend like social conservatism doesn't have the ongoing dog whistle of racism running through almost every policy, and that conservative politicians aren't pandering and stoking the fires of white fear. It's a real fucking problem, and because of it, and because of an administration that emboldens them, we are having to be held account for it as racist shitbags this this guy in Canada make themselves more public.

 

Racism comes from and goes out to all races. Saying all white people are racists is just as bad as saying all black people are lazy. The laziest thing to do is to blame your shortcomings on racism.

[Geeto67]

Racism comes from and goes out to all races. Saying all white people are racists is just as bad as saying all black people are lazy. The laziest thing to do is to blame your shortcomings on racism.

 

I'm not saying that ALL white people are racists, but objectively speaking there are white supremacists, and there are people like you who make excuses for their rhetoric and defend their actions.

 

There are people, like mace, who say that all black people are responsible for crime and think that is a perfectly non racist statement (it's not) but lose their shit and cry racisim foul when you say all white people are responsible for white supremacy. It's illustrating the double standard which allows white supremacy to exist.

 

You can claim to be fair all you want, but if you publicly defend a recognized white supremacy talking point like white genocide, don't expect people to think you aren't one.

[TTQ B4U]

There are people, like mace, who say that all black people are responsible for crime and think that is a perfectly non racist statement (it's not) but lose their shit and cry racisim foul when you say all white people are responsible for white supremacy.

 

 

Remove race from his statements as I feel confident Mace isn't saying black people only. He's saying everyone who commits crimes is responsible for it regardless of their race. Everyone's own personal responsibly and expectation to obey our laws isn't dependent on their skin color. We don't get to break laws and be lessor citizens and cry foul blaming whitey or others for that poor behavior.

[Geeto67]

Remove race from his statements as I feel confident Mace isn't saying black people only. He's saying everyone who commits crimes is responsible for it regardless of their race. Everyone's own personal responsibly and expectation to obey our laws isn't dependent on their skin color. We don't get to break laws and be lessor citizens and cry foul blaming whitey or others for that poor behavior.

 

Go back a page Tim, he was pretty clear about it. He also said inner city kids (well recognized racist code for black people) are too lazy to better themselves.

 

While I agree it is every one's responsibility to follow the laws of the country, it's a stretch to get to this point from those statements. i don't think he was being intentionally malicious or racist, but the point of that conversation was to show the double standard where people will make excuses for obvious racist statements they make about minorities but get their panties in a twist when someone else makes those statements about them. You are literally illustrating my point by going to great lengths to make an excuse or reinterpret something obvious on its face to take it out of the realm of racism.

 

This whole thing started because some whack-a-doo said some shitty racist things about white people, and right away the reaction was "she should die in a terrorist explosion", but the moment someone says "what about this other shitty racist thing you say" suddenly there is a rush to make excuses as to why it's not racist. Obvious double standard is obvious.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Geeto67

[TTQ B4U]

Go back a page Tim, he was pretty clear about it. He also said inner city kids (well recognized racist code for black people) are too lazy to better themselves.

 

meh....perhaps that's what he said but what he meant is likely different. no thanks on going back to read it. just not in the mood today

 

You are literally illustrating my point by going to great lengths to make an excuse or reinterpret something obvious on its face to take it out of the realm of racisim.

again, perhaps, but I've had enough conversations with people to know that what gets typed on CR is often different from what their true views are when engaged in a conversation. I'll let him clarify as you're not wrong in that I'm making assumptions.

 

This whole thing started because some whack a doo said some shitty racist things about white people

nothing new. the word racist is just one of many over-used words being tossed around in the age of Trump. it's old, laughable and doing more harm to the real arguments than good. when everything and everyone is racist things get watered down and dismissed more easily.

[Mace1647545504]

Tim..thanks, but kerry has his mind made up that I'm a racist . I said in an earlier post we shouldn't say personal thing about people and kerry also said that he wasn't calling me a racist. Kerry is a liar and an idiot.

 

Mr liberal hasn't spent much time in the inner city. I was an inner city kid form an inner city family oh by the way I'm white. Asses like kerry would have been chewed up and spit out daily because they are pussys hiding behind their parents or saying they'd call the law.

 

I've lived it and i know what I'm talking about when i talk inner city, unlike kerry who has read or maybe driven through it with his windows rolled up tight afraid to look sideways.

 

Once I had to take a friend..a black friend to get his car and I had told him where I came from, he didn't believe me. As we drove my old neighborhood, he looked at me and said,"damn you did live in the hood"

 

Anyone who knows the area I grew up on Innis ave between parsons and high st...kerry go down and walk around they crew will love you.

[Geeto67]

Tim..thanks, but kerry has his mind made up that I'm a racist . I said in an earlier post we shouldn't say personal thing about people and kerry also said that he wasn't calling me a racist. Kerry is a liar and an idiot.

 

Again haven't called you a racist. I have asked, repeatedly, why you don't see the racism in an obvious racist statement that you claim isn't racist and you dodge the question by saying things like the above. Just because you may have unintentionally said something that is racist doesn't mean you are a klansman, but it seems like nothing is going to keep you from hanging on that cross you have built.

 

Mr liberal hasn't spent much time in the inner city. I was an inner city kid form an inner city family oh by the way I'm white. Asses like kerry would have been chewed up and spit out daily because they are pussys hiding behind their parents or saying they'd call the law.

 

Bitch Please. I come from the city that invented american ghettos. While you were walking about your "inner city", my neighbors were burning down their apartments.

 

But this isn't a fight about who grew up in what neighborhood, because that would be a pretty stupid thing to fight about. So I am going to ask you again, why don't you see the racism in this obvious racist statement you want to defend? If you don't have a good answer, then maybe it isn't as race neutral as you thought.

[greg1647545532]

We judge others their actions but we want others to judge us by our intentions.

[Mace1647545504]

Just because you grew up in a city that invented the 'to' doesn't mean you've lived it.

My statement isn't racist as I have seen many blacks help themselves out and up...that's what I've said, to those who can read all along. You have to help yourself out of where you are. The government cannot do it for you.

 

And call me bitch again to my face. Where would you like to do that?

[Geeto67]

My statement isn't racist as I have seen many blacks help themselves out and up...that's what I've said,

 

Ok, but just because you saw someone win the lottery doesn't mean the odds aren't in the favor of the house. The CONTEXT that makes your statement racist, and the context that you conveniently ignore, is that the odds are not in their favor for success and the reason is because of hundreds of years of racist policy that continues to this day. Again, I don't think your are being intentionally racist, but are you intentionally ignoring that the system is rigged against minorities?

 

Why I (and I am not alone in thinking this) think your statements are racist:

1. It ignores a the inherent racism in a system, and victim blames ALL members of a particular race for circumstances beyond their control

2. It confuses correlation for causality and wrongly ascribes that causality to race

3. It reinforces a negative, and largely untrue, stereotype

4. It gives an excuse to not fix a broken and intentionally racially biased system that is in need of repair and continues the status quo of systemic racism in this country.

 

Yes it is generally true that hard work will improve the chances (but guarantee) success for people, ALL PEOPLE. Why do you feel like black people need to work harder for the same opportunities as white people? why is it the victims responsibility to overcome the odds stacked against them when you can just change the odds and let them succeed on their merits on a level playing field?

 

 

 

And call me bitch again to my face. Where would you like to do that?

 

Ooooh such a tough guy. Solve this problem with violence, because that TOTALLY solves everything and nothing bad can ever stem from that. /Sarcasm. So thin skinned you can dish it out but can't take it, give me a break.

 

 

Bitch.

[greg1647545532]

Why do conservatives always threaten violence when they get upset?

 

-CR, probably

[Geeto67]

Why do conservatives always threaten violence when they get upset?

 

-CR, probably

 

I dunno, maybe Don Lemon was right after all....:gabe:

[Mitch]

NO THREATS. DAMNIT.

[Mace1647545504]

Just because you grew up in a city that invented the 'to' doesn't mean you've lived it.

My statement isn't racist as I have seen many blacks help themselves out and up...that's what I've said, to those who can read all along. You have to help yourself out of where you are. The government cannot do it for you.

 

And call me bitch again to my face. Where would you like to do that?

 

Where is the threat in that statement...yes it was inherent, but consequences must be faced.

Really conservative violence...what about all the libs not allowing the pubs service at restaurants or demonstrating outside someone house. But if you said anything about that it would invalidate the peaceful lib argument.

[Rustlestiltskin]

KICK HIS ASS MACE!!!

[greg1647545532]

Where is the threat in that statement...yes it was inherent, but consequences must be faced.

Really conservative violence...what about all the libs not allowing the pubs service at restaurants or demonstrating outside someone house. But if you said anything about that it would invalidate the peaceful lib argument.

 

Buddy, my point is that the conservative narrative du jour is "jobs not mobs" or some shit, that is that the left is a bunch of violent thugs. And yet the only two people who have lost their cool and threatened violence in these many CR political threads are you and Brandon. I was simply pointing out the inherent irony in order to score internet points.

 

Not surprisingly, both of you then played coy about the clear intent of your words. Not sure what that's all about.

[Geeto67]

Where is the threat in that statement...yes it was inherent, but consequences must be faced.

 

So the "consequence" of someone calling you a name is that you must pummel them. But that only applies to you right? Let's not forget, in this thread you called me a Racist, a Liar, a Pussy, and an Idiot, and I went out of my way to say I wan't calling you a racist, and then called you a "bitch" as part of a common colloquial phrase. What do you think the appropriate consequences you should face for those actions? What should happen to you for doing the exact same thing to me that you think gives you the right to be violent to me when I do it to a lesser degree to you?

 

Really, tell me what you think I should do to make you face the consequences of your actions?

 

Really conservative violence...what about all the libs not allowing the pubs service at restaurants or demonstrating outside someone house. But if you said anything about that it would invalidate the peaceful lib argument.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/florida-yoga-studio-shooting/index.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/us/active-shooter-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting.html

 

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/nyregion/cnn-cory-booker-pipe-bombs-sent.html

[CRed05]

Ok let's stop the name calling for fucks sake.

 

A fellow CR bro shared a video with me about things that previous Democrat Presidents have said, which are basically the same things Trump has said about the topic. The difference is that Obama won't ever be a called a racist.

 

I found a shorter, more comedic version of that video.

 

I miss those Democrats. The ones that believed in progress but still had common sense.

[Geeto67]

Ok let's stop the name calling for fucks sake.

 

A fellow CR bro shared a video with me about things that previous Democrat Presidents have said, which are basically the same things Trump has said about the topic. The difference is that Obama won't ever be a called a racist.

 

And yet neither of those presidents actually separated immigrant children from their parents....hmmmm

 

It's almost as if there was a moral line they felt was too far to cross.

 

Also, that video of Obama is heavily edited to move his statements out of order. If you look at the transcript of his actual speech he says a lot of those things but not in the order the video presents and ina very different context and drawing very different conclusions. Excerpt below.

 

My fellow Americans, tonight, I’d like to talk with you about immigration.

 

For more than 200 years, our tradition of welcoming immigrants from around the world has given us a tremendous advantage over other nations. It’s kept us youthful, dynamic, and entrepreneurial. It has shaped our character as a people with limitless possibilities — people not trapped by our past, but able to remake ourselves as we choose.

 

But today, our immigration system is broken — and everybody knows it.

 

Families who enter our country the right way and play by the rules watch others flout the rules. Business owners who offer their workers good wages and benefits see the competition exploit undocumented immigrants by paying them far less. All of us take offense to anyone who reaps the rewards of living in America without taking on the responsibilities of living in America. And undocumented immigrants who desperately want to embrace those responsibilities see little option but to remain in the shadows, or risk their families being torn apart.

 

[…]

 

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of bill a simple yes-or-no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties, and today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now, Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote.

 

Now, I continue to believe that the best way to solve this problem is by working together to pass that kind of common sense law. But until that happens, there are actions I have the legal authority to take as President — the same kinds of actions taken by Democratic and Republican presidents before me — that will help make our immigration system more fair and more just.

 

Tonight, I am announcing those actions.

 

First, we’ll build on our progress at the border with additional resources for our law enforcement personnel so that they can stem the flow of illegal crossings, and speed the return of those who do cross over.

 

Second, I’ll make it easier and faster for high-skilled immigrants, graduates, and entrepreneurs to stay and contribute to our economy, as so many business leaders have proposed.

 

Third, we’ll take steps to deal responsibly with the millions of undocumented immigrants who already live in our country.

 

I want to say more about this third issue, because it generates the most passion and controversy. Even as we are a nation of immigrants, we’re also a nation of laws. Undocumented workers broke our immigration laws, and I believe that they must be held accountable — especially those who may be dangerous. That’s why, over the past six years, deportations of criminals are up 80 percent. And that’s why we’re going to keep focusing enforcement resources on actual threats to our security. Felons, not families. Criminals, not children. Gang members, not a mom who’s working hard to provide for her kids. We’ll prioritize, just like law enforcement does every day.

 

But even as we focus on deporting criminals, the fact is, millions of immigrants in every state, of every race and nationality still live here illegally. And let’s be honest — tracking down, rounding up, and deporting millions of people isn’t realistic. Anyone who suggests otherwise isn’t being straight with you. It’s also not who we are as Americans. After all, most of these immigrants have been here a long time. They work hard, often in tough, low-paying jobs. They support their families. They worship at our churches. Many of their kids are American-born or spent most of their lives here, and their hopes, dreams, and patriotism are just like ours. As my predecessor, President Bush, once put it: “They are a part of American life.”

 

Now here’s the thing: We expect people who live in this country to play by the rules. We expect that those who cut the line will not be unfairly rewarded. So we’re going to offer the following deal: If you’ve been in America for more than five years; if you have children who are American citizens or legal residents; if you register, pass a criminal background check, and you’re willing to pay your fair share of taxes — you’ll be able to apply to stay in this country temporarily without fear of deportation. You can come out of the shadows and get right with the law. That’s what this deal is.

[CRed05]

Yeah naah that doesn't change anything.

 

CHECKMATE! FATALITY! I WIN KEK!

[greg1647545532]

I miss those Democrats. The ones that believed in progress but still had common sense.

 

Well, progress was actually made, you know. Illegal border crossings skyrocketed in the late 80s and all through the 90s. I personally disagree with Clinton's BS rhetoric there about them tekkin' our jerbs, but I can reasonably see someone being concerned with illegal immigration in 1996. But look at those numbers! The number of illegal immigrants in the country has steadily been decreasing since 2007, and illegal border crossings have dwindled, and that's not because of tough enforcement, it's because economies in many South American countries have improved.

 

Why, then, is the immigrant fear drum being beat louder now than ever before? Hmmm....

[Mace1647545504]

I believe I apologized, until you kept implying that I am racist ..much like me saying we meet face to face..all those statements have an underlying meanings

[Geeto67]

Clinton also took a lot of shit in the 90's for his immigration policy, esp after the standoff in El Paso and the human wall. The "they took our jobs" rhetoric brought a ton of criticism down on his head.

 

 

I am not sure what the point is here - Do you remember the 90's? Clinton was called all sorts of horrible things, and that was before the Lewinsky scandal. Defense of marriage act? yeah it wasn't like america embraced it wholeheartedly. You know what Clinton didn't do? go out an call his critics "Losers" and then make a sweeping generalizations about the entirety of gays and impugning their moral character on twitter.

 

Clinton's are Blue conservatives. whether you want to admit that or not it's in the numbers and their issues on positions. But since when to facts seem to get in the way of a good narrative?

[CRed05]

You know what Clinton didn't do? go out an call his critics "Losers" and then make a sweeping generalizations about the entirety of gays and impugning their moral character on twitter.

 

I'm not defending Trump, I can't stand the man. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but the fucking left will STILL tell him he's wrong then.

[greg1647545532]

I'm not defending Trump, I can't stand the man. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but the fucking left will STILL tell him he's wrong then.

 

Just as long as he doesn't wear a tan suit.

 

8 years of Obama being criticized daily for pretty much just going about his job like a normal president has left me a bit numb to claims that the left is being too unfair to Trump. If you want to argue that people are too obsessed with the daily goings on of the president that's one thing, but this is certainly not a left/right issue.