Political Fart Noise Part II

[Geeto67]

I think it's scary that Trump's war on the media

1) clouds the ability for people to properly digest and understand what "the news" is because of all the noise he brings, and

2) the media is falling right into the trap. (Jon's comments in the video) Many journalists are baited by Trump's hate rhetoric and can't stop themselves from being unbiased.

^^^If that's Trump's fault, or members of the media, I'll leave that up to your opinion.

 

 

That above should stand on it's own. It's not scary that people believe the President over media outlets, especially biased sources like FoxNews or CNN.

https://www.history.com/news/presidents-relationship-with-press

 

 

 

This is absolutely the correct take Clay. But don'e expect reasonable, intelligent, or measured political discourse in this thread.

 

I am not usually one to say things were better way back when....but in this case, there has been a shift in how people used to consume news and how they do it now and the increased intensity has caused the focus to shift from being independent consumers of news, to contrarians of media. Rather than look at an event from all angles, there seems to be this shift where people just find fault with the source that don't reaffirm their bias and use it discredit all things from that source. Don't get me wrong, this has always been there in some form, but in the past the slower news cycle and fewer outlets made it easier to take time and overcome that initial knee jerk reaction and really process what is being said, but now with the constant onslaught, people move from knee jerk to knee jerk. Media now is mostly just as biased as it has always been, Fox news is just more of the same yellow journalism that made Hearst wealthy in the 1800's, but now it's 24 hours if you can stand to consume that much.

[BStowers023]

This is absolutely the correct take Clay. But don'e expect reasonable, intelligent, or measured political discourse in this thread.

 

Yep. We shouldn’t hold the media accountable for what they say. It’s Trumps fault! If he wasn’t so mean to them, they wouldn’t spout off nonsense! Poor Don Lemon and CNN. Victims of Trumps hate I tell ya

[Geeto67]

Yep. We shouldn’t hold the media accountable for what they say. It’s Trumps fault! If he wasn’t so mean to them, they wouldn’t spout off nonsense! Poor Don Lemon and CNN. Victims of Trumps hate I tell ya

 

I don't think the "media" has an accountability problem - the entire business model profits off controversy, which is mostly made up of people disagreeing and trying to disprove what is reported, which is kind of what Jon Stewart was pointing out: that you have a person that has found a way to exploit that dependence on controversy for his personal gain and has done it basically by lying his ass off.

 

Things that Trump does are in fact his fault. Even you can't possibly ignore that there are some things he has done that aren't positive for anybody. There are some things going on here, like Trump's personal profiting from his office, which are unprecedented, but if you think the media is the enemy of Trump then you aren't inclined to see it, and that's what he wants - he want's you in the street crying that the media is so unfair to his latest brand of bullshit (revoking citizenship with an EO? give me a break), that he can rob the bank in broad daylight and have you say "well it's the bank's fault for being a bank, and the people's fault for keeping their money in it". It's dumb.

 

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways

 

Brandon, whether you like it or not you are being exploited, we all are. First by the 24 hour news cycle and punditry and second by the president himself who has figured out how to game the system. When you go out and you claim that the media is so unfair to Trump, you aren't being an independent thinker, you are his pawn. You can be both critical of the media and of Trump, you don't have to pick a side in this - but you certainly seem to have despite facts, logic, and reason to the contrary.

[greg1647545532]

Right, the problem here is that "the media" sucks -- Fox News perfected the suck train, and let's not forget the 1 hour of "fair and balanced news" and 23 hours of "let's hate Obama" that we all had to endure for 8 years. That happened. If CNN is mean to Trump it's because Fox News showed CNN how much money you can make putting talking heads on the air 23 hours a day who say nothing of any practical relevance.

 

BUT

 

It's your responsibility as a citizen to be a good media consumer. You have to know the difference between CNN and the NY Times, between the WaPo and and the WaPo editorial section, and yes, between the 1 hour of Fox News that's actually news every day and the 23 hours of political propaganda.

 

What Trump wants, and what you're all giving him, is to lump legitimate investigative reporting in with all of the things you don't like about "the media" to the point where you just throw your hands up in the air and claim it's all corrupt.

 

All. Media. Is. Not. Corrupt.

 

All. Media. Is. Not. The. Same.

 

When you're at a point like Brandon where you share White Nationalist propaganda because you're unable to tell the difference between news and shit, you've lost and Trump has won. But let's not lose sight of the fact that Trump gets a lot of negative reporting because Trump does a lot of dumbass things. Is the media not supposed to report on Trump claiming he can overturn the 14th amendment with an EO? Because 1) that's news, and 2) it make Trump look like an uneducated idiot, and a xenophobic, constitution-hating uneducated idiot at that. And this isn't like all the times Fox News would fire up whole news cycles about something Obama didn't actually say in order to paint him as a constitution-hating Kenyan Muslim. This is real, Trump actually said this.

 

When it comes out that our commander in chief is using an unsecured phone but his own white house says it's not a problem because he's too clueless to spill state secrets (because he doesn't pay attention to the short briefings he gets that inform him of state secrets), is that not news? Should that not be reported?

 

So yes, Kerry is right -- you can hate Trump and hate CNN, and you probably should because they're both hot garbage. But you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Criticize your president because he's terrible and in America we're allowed to criticize our elected leaders, especially if they're terrible.

[cdk 4219]

http://theconversation.com/the-dangerous-belief-that-white-people-are-under-attack-88622

 

 

 

 

He's not factually wrong though. However blunt he put it, the context of the conversation was on domestic terrorism and you can't ignore that there is this knee jerk reaction to ascribe a certain ethnic bias when one hears the word terrorism, when in reality that particular ethnicity isn't the biggest terrorist threat to Americans.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2018/10/31/cnn-host-don-lemon-said-white-men-are-biggest-terror-threat-this-country/?utm_term=.27934f574df9

 

 

I am not thrilled with the inelegance of his statements, but he isn't staying all white men - just those who are radicalized far right and who have historically killed people in furthering their beliefs. If you feel attacked by these statements, maybe...I dunno....try to make an effort to understand why he is saying what he is saying. But I have a feeling, esp when it comes to you Brandon, that maybe you feel attacked because he is talking about you - and considering your history of making threats against people on this board he's not wrong.

 

He also asked if the Malaysian airliner possibly went into a black hole, he’s extremely informed

[Geeto67]

He also asked if the Malaysian airliner possibly went into a black hole, he’s extremely informed

 

About that, probably not, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. If you think he's wrong about the overwhelming majority of domestic terrorists being extremist right white males, then go out and do the research to prove him wrong. I can tell you he is not, but don't take my word for it.

[cdk 4219]

t's your responsibility as a citizen to be a good media consumer. You have to know the difference between CNN and the NY Times, between the WaPo and and the WaPo editorial section, and yes, between the 1 hour of Fox News that's actually news every day and the 23 hours of political propaganda.

 

The problem that exists is the fact that most people believe what the nightly news is saying. Most “news “ isn’t news as much as editorial for their beliefs. Omitting important facts, which is done regularly takes it away from news and makes people believe these outrageous acts. Paying attention to the actual truths and omissions takes far too much time for most people.

 

As I have stated before,lots of these news stories that are put out are meant to outrage people, and if the whole story isn’t told it does outrage. Put the facts back in and the story changes 180 degrees. Omissions to the facts of the story Are the problems , but maybe many people don’t want the whole story or the truth, they are happy with their editorial news.

[greg1647545532]

The problem that exists is the fact that most people believe what the nightly news is saying. Most “news “ isn’t news as much as editorial for their beliefs. Omitting important facts, which is done regularly takes it away from news and makes people believe these outrageous acts. Paying attention to the actual truths and omissions takes far too much time for most people.

 

I said people need to been wise consumers of media, and here you spell out exactly why I'm right. Was that your intention?

 

Yes, most "news" isn't news, it's entertainment. People need to be able to tell the difference. Which is what I said.

 

Let's start here -- the "nightly news" as I understand it is the hour of news from 6-7 on every network channel. The NBC nightly news that my parents watched every day growing up for 1 hour was real news. People who watch that should believe it, because it's put out by quality journalists with a good track record. People who watch the PBS news hour as their "nightly news" should believe it.

 

People who watch a random hour of Sean Hannity are going to be dumber for it, and anyone who thinks that's the "nightly news" is an idiot and needs to learn better.

[Geeto67]

 

Let's start here -- the "nightly news" as I understand it is the hour of news from 6-7 on every network channel. The NBC nightly news that my parents watched every day growing up for 1 hour was real news. People who watch that should believe it, because it's put out by quality journalists with a good track record. People who watch the PBS news hour as their "nightly news" should believe it.

 

That's how it used to be, but part of the problem, and why this has become somewhat complicated, has been companies like Sinclair broadcast group who seek to turn the "nightly news" into something similar to Sean Hannity

 

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020756844_fishersinclairxml.html

 

In Columbus 3 of the local stations are owned by Sinclair

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_owned_or_operated_by_Sinclair_Broadcast_Group#By_state_and_market

 

And what do you do with places that are pretty much generally recognized as being trustworthy and neutral when the rhetoric is that they are very biased:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-biased-is-your-news-source-you-probably-wont-agree-with-this-chart-2018-02-28

[greg1647545532]

I think Sinclair's monopoly is alarming but as far as I can tell the nightly news is still the nightly news, although I only ever watch it when I'm visiting my parents on a weeknight...

 

 

eta: Of course, the local news has its own problem with "if it bleeds it leads" and it makes old white folks afraid to leave their bubble but I don't think that makes it "fake news" or "the enemy of the people."

[Geeto67]

I think Sinclair's monopoly is alarming but as far as I can tell the nightly news is still the nightly news, although I only ever watch it when I'm visiting my parents on a weeknight...

 

 

eta: Of course, the local news has its own problem with "if it bleeds it leads" and it makes old white folks afraid to leave their bubble but I don't think that makes it "fake news" or "the enemy of the people."

 

If you are looking for it, the bias is subtle but there, esp if you have a non Sinclair news station reporting the same events to compare it to, or you can compile all the news reporting on national events from Sinclair stations in different markets (like John Oliver did).

 

The monopoly is troubling on its own because it's a monopoly, but Sinclair's commitment to engineer bias into the nightly news is far more insidious.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/business/media/sinclair-news-anchors-script.html

 

https://money.cnn.com/2018/03/07/media/sinclair-broadcasting-promos-media-bashing/index.html

 

The whole thing has a very slimy "Ministry of Truth" feel to it, but as you pointed out most people our age (assuming you and I are both in that 18-40 demographic) don't consume nightly news for the most part.

[CRed05]

majority of domestic terrorists being extremist right white males.

 

Well the US is ~80% white ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Here, I made a template:

 

majority of domestic terrorists in [insert country name] are extremist [political side that's not in power] [majority race in country] males.

[Geeto67]

Well the US is ~80% white ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Here, I made a template:

 

majority of domestic terrorists in [insert country name] are extremist [political side that's not in power] [majority race in country] males.

 

eh...except in this instance, historically it hasn't mattered who politically is in power because these things were tied to an ideology that has migrated from one party to the other.

[CRed05]

eh...except in this instance, historically it hasn't mattered who politically is in power because these things were tied to an ideology that has migrated from one party to the other.

 

The point is America is full of whites.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2018/10/31/cnn-host-don-lemon-said-white-men-are-biggest-terror-threat-this-country/?utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.fc692d8e5b2c

 

from 2008 to 2016, there were almost twice as many terrorist incidents carried out on U.S. soil by right-wing extremists — many of whom are white — than by Islamist extremists.

 

ALMOST twice as many from right wing extremists, MANY of whom are white.

 

Well fuck me...seems like non-whites are doing more than their share of the terrorizing.

 

That angered some people. But let’s put emotion aside and look at the cold hard facts. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

Yeah, let's mention some cold, hard facts and see who starts crying racism first. Idiot.

[Geeto67]

The point is America is full of whites.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2018/10/31/cnn-host-don-lemon-said-white-men-are-biggest-terror-threat-this-country/?utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.fc692d8e5b2c

 

 

 

ALMOST twice as many from right wing extremists, MANY of whom are white.

 

Well fuck me...seems like non-whites are doing more than their share of the terrorizing.

 

 

 

Yeah, let's mention some cold, hard facts and see who starts crying racism first. Idiot.

 

 

You seem to be missing that the crucial point that these white terrorists are committing their acts because america isn't more white. It's not a political ideology, they aren't sending bombs or lynching people over the deficit, racism is at the core of their motivation for hurting/killing people.

 

Don Lemon gets it, why don't you?

 

How about we try to use some rhetoric that is often used against minorities in this country - the white community should take more responsibility for their people and do something to prevent this kind of activity. I mean if the black community has to take responsibility for it's people why do whites get a pass?

 

Honestly this conversation is stupid, but I didn't think it was possible to have a dumber take on it than dismissal through being ambivalent about it and rationalizing it through numbers. bravo for going under that bar.

[BStowers023]

Kerry is a white apologist. That's really all you need to know about him to know what kind of guy he is. Lmao

[Geeto67]

Kerry is a white apologist. That's really all you need to know about him to know what kind of guy he is. Lmao

 

Says the white nationalist.

 

you do realize that basically calling someone a race traitor doesn't make your case, right?

[BStowers023]

Says the white nationalist.

 

you do realize that basically calling someone a race traitor doesn't make your case, right?

 

Says the fascist

[SpaceGhost]

Says the fascist

 

I don’t think you know the definition of “fascist“....

[Geeto67]

Says the fascist

 

aw...did I trigger the hitler youth?

 

I don’t think you know the definition of “fascist“....

 

I am pretty sure he doesn't know the meanings to lots of the terms he uses.

 

A white apologist would be someone in support of white people, I assumed he meant it sarcastically but now I just realize he doesn't know what an apologist is.

[BStowers023]

I don’t think you know the definition of “fascist“....

 

Says Mr. Cool

[CRed05]

You seem to be missing that the crucial point that these white terrorists are committing their acts because america isn't more white. It's not a political ideology, they aren't sending bombs or lynching people over the deficit, racism is at the core of their motivation for hurting/killing people.

 

Don Lemon gets it, why don't you?

 

What does that have to do with anything? Every terrorist has their reason why they're doing it, whether it's race, religion...who cares? And if you think race isn't a factor for non-whites, you better wake up.

 

 

How about we try to use some rhetoric that is often used against minorities in this country - the white community should take more responsibility for their people and do something to prevent this kind of activity. I mean if the black community has to take responsibility for it's people why do whites get a pass?

 

Honestly this conversation is stupid, but I didn't think it was possible to have a dumber take on it than dismissal through being ambivalent about it and rationalizing it through numbers. bravo for going under that bar.

 

No one gets a pass.

 

You're going to sit there and tell me when 106 people were killed in 62 attacks by far-right extremists (who are sometimes white), and 119 people were killed in 23 attacks by Islamist, that white people have a terrorist problem?

 

I got those numbers from the article I shared above. These are the numbers Lemon shared too.

 

Let's break that down. For argument's sake, let's say that each attack was one individual.

 

US Population:

325 million total

1.1% Muslim = 3.5 million

72% white = 234 million.

 

So 23 out of 3.5 million Muslims are terrorists, but 62 out of 234 million whites are terrorist. Again, tell me whites have a terrorist problem.

 

You're right, this conversation is stupid, but you don't understand why it's stupid.

[greg1647545532]

Not for nothing, but I actually clicked on the GAO report in your link. Your numbers are wrong and I don't feel like fixing them. There are duplicate offenders, eg of the 23 attacks by Islamists, a full 15 of them are the DC beltway sniper. So that's like, 2 guys for like 2/3rds of your attacks alone. 2 of the attacks are the tsaernev brothers, and 3 of the attacks are "related" but it doesn't say if it's the same guy.

 

eta: By my math that's 7 Islamist extremists since 2001. And that number is so small that it's hard to derive any useful statistics from it. But you know, your point that white people commit terrorism in a white country shouldn't be a surprise, but we also have a huge blind spot for white terrorism whereas our response to Islamist terrorism is to lose our collective shit, give our freedom over to the government that we claim to hate, and generally light a pile of money on fire.

[Geeto67]

You're right, this conversation is stupid, but you don't understand why it's stupid.

 

Show me legislation against white supremacist terrorism the same way the Muslim ban was sold on the back of Islamic terrorism or gun control on the back of Black Nationalism and I'll agree with you. I'll wait while you look for that, might take a while.

[CRed05]

Not for nothing, but I actually clicked on the GAO report in your link. Your numbers are wrong and I don't feel like fixing them. There are duplicate offenders, eg of the 23 attacks by Islamists, a full 15 of them are the DC beltway sniper. So that's like, 2 guys for like 2/3rds of your attacks alone. 2 of the attacks are the tsaernev brothers, and 3 of the attacks are "related" but it doesn't say if it's the same guy.

 

I just copied them straight from the article. I also mentioned that let's just assume each attack was by a different person.

 

I don't know what the number is, but the Islamic number needs to be pretty low to equal the white %.

 

If it was 1 out of 3.5 million, I still think that's more per capita. Where the math guys at?