DTM Brian Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 All Engine Displacements are not created equal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat0403 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 jesus christ the torque curves are a hell of a lot different (i know this is a given but seeing a graph really puts it in perspective) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Yeah' date=' it made 150. I was impressed. It had tons of shit done, though. Pistons, rods, degreed cams, giant Termi system... all kinds of shit. I don't know whether or not it's still running but that's the numbers it pushed on the dyno. (to be perfectly honest I never saw the numbers myself... could be complete bullshit)[/quote']It could be done, no doubt. Could Eric do it? Maybe. I'm pretty sure they blew it up a time or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMan Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Here is a dyno of my monster with a built 996 motor tuned for the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Here is a dyno of my monster with a built 996 motor tuned for the street.Nice.Did Bruce build it for you? What exactly did you have done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) From what I've seen, a typical (Stock) 996 should be about 118 hp and 74 torque. The numbers are also relative to the dyno used as you all already know.A 748 is about 94 hp and 55 torque.This website has alot of info and is where I took those numbers.Sigma Performance+1 V-twins FTMFW Edited May 13, 2009 by Speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yotaman88210 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nice.Did Bruce build it for you? What exactly did you have done?+1 !! Do tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMan Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) Nice.Did Bruce build it for you? What exactly did you have done?Yes, Bruce built the motor. I purchased the bike from a guy in up state NY, it only had 100mi after the build. The total mi on the bike was 1,000, it was too much for him.Here are the motor specs:BCM 1036 Big Bore KitV2 Stage II 748R Intake & Exhaust Cams38mm Intake Valves32mm Exhaust ValvesMachined & Balanced Crank & FlywheelPistal 13-4-1 PistionsCarillo RodsComplete Head porting w/ manifolds and throttle bodiesComplete blueprint of lower end and trannyLarge throttle bodies (I think 54mm)This is what I can remember off the top of my head. The bike would probally be in the 150's with race gas and a aggressive tune.I'll have an updated tune from Doug Lofgren soon I'll post (long story).She has a few more goodies on her now but here is a pic: Edited May 13, 2009 by MonsterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yotaman88210 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Damn that is some serious motor for a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Yes, Bruce built the motor. I purchased the bike from a guy in up state NY, it only had 100mi after the build. The total mi on the bike was 1,000, it was too much for him.Here are the motor specs:BCM 1036 Big Bore KitV2 Stage II 748R Intake & Exhaust Cams38mm Intake Valves32mm Exhaust ValvesMachined & Balanced Crank & FlywheelPistal 13-4-1 PistionsCarillo RodsComplete Head porting w/ manifolds and throttle bodiesComplete blueprint of lower end and trannyThis is what I can remember off the top of my head. The bike would probally be in the 150's with race gas and a aggressive tune.I'll have an updated tune from Doug Lofgren soon I'll post (long story).She has a few more goodies on her now but here is a pic:Nice looking Monster.Does Doug have the bike now or what? Like to hear the rest of that story.I was in touch with Bruce and Doug back in my Ducati Days, but I haven't played in that stuff for a few years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMan Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Nice looking Monster.Does Doug have the bike now or what? Like to hear the rest of that story.I was in touch with Bruce and Doug back in my Ducati Days, but I haven't played in that stuff for a few years now.Basically, the high compression ate the starter sprag (the bike has around 7,000mi on it). Took it down to Commonwealth and they replaced it. While it was there Bruce (he was there for training) tried to adjust the Ultimap ecu for easier starting. Something happened with the ecu and lost the mapping. So, long story short it was just easier to have Doug remap it.I should be picking up the bike from Commonwealth Fri/Sat, been waiting on a new front brake line. For a set of HP calipers and Moto Corse radial bottoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Damn nice Monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Basically, the high compression ate the starter sprag (the bike has around 7,000mi on it). Took it down to Commonwealth and they replaced it. While it was there Bruce (he was there for training) tried to adjust the Ultimap ecu for easier starting. Something happened with the ecu and lost the mapping. So, long story short it was just easier to have Doug remap it.I should be picking up the bike from Commonwealth Fri/Sat, been waiting on a new front brake line. For a set of HP calipers and Moto Corse radial bottoms.Interesting.So Doug is in KY now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMan Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 She's beautiful!! I love that swing arm.Thank you! It's the Moto Corse one.I thought that pre 2005 Ducati's hp numbers were at the wheel. That's why there was such an increase in Ducati's hp numbers.If you look at the dyno I posted the 99hp is for the original 916 motor that was in the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMan Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Interesting.So Doug is in KY now?No, he is traveling around doing training for DNA, from what I was told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 From what I've seen, a typical (Stock) 996 should be about 118 hp and 74 torque. The numbers are also relative to the dyno used as you all already know.A 748 is about 94 hp and 55 torque.This website has alot of info and is where I took those numbers.Sigma Performance+1 V-twins FTMFWGotta love the DIN correction factor found on the side of the page. That correction factor reads even higher then STD let alone SAE. I bet the power would be close to 110 using SAE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'll take it to Brian after I'm finished and see what she does. After 2 years I'm sure my map has lost some information.Ummmm....maps aren't bananas - they don't "go bad", nor do they "lose" information.If you've changed things on your bike since it was mapped, the A/F ratio could be off. That's the only thing you can change with a PC-III anyway (unless you have the ignition module). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 A power commander map is TPS position vs RPM. I am guessing the factory fuel map in all of these bikes is a V/E table which has rpm on one axis and manifold vacuum on the other axis. Both the power commanders and bazzaz units act as a band aid on the factory tune. In a perfect world it would be better to actually re write the V/E table in the bikes ecu. A given map should stay consistent. A map may need tweaking from time to time as the engine wears and engine management sensors begin to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmuckingham Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Woah dude....step away from the crack pipe.This was a 748cc v-twin motor putting out over 20 RWHP than a stock motor, and you're not impressed? WTF? It also put out more HP than a bike with 33% MORE displacement. What would it take for you to add 20-25% more to your bike? Would it last a full roadrace season? When I say it "would last a whole season" doesnt mean that it blows up the last race of the year. Typical ducati maintenance was needed at the end of each season...valve adj. etc.I've got some more news for ya, punkin - this was a roadrace bike, not a drag bike. Nice power delivery throughout the range - not just on top. I didn't post the numbers to make this a pissing contest. I only posted it to show that at 104 his bike isn't making what it could be making. Fucks sake, it isn't even making what it SHOULD make. Brian may well have done a fine job tuning it and it may well be more rideable, but that doesn't mean its right. THAT's all I'm saying.I picked up 11hp at the rear tire from bolt on mods over stock and if i wanted to gain quite a few more I could just do headwork with stock bottom end..... Honda engineering might make a whole roadrace season.Yes I know how race motors work and how they last.... Ive built a few in my day and rebuilt them on a weekend basis. ALso drag bikes need crisp throttle and good fueling across the board... not just the top end, cupcake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) I picked up 11hp at the rear tire from bolt on mods over stock and if i wanted to gain quite a few more I could just do headwork with stock bottom end..... Honda engineering might make a whole roadrace season.Yes I know how race motors work and how they last.... Ive built a few in my day and rebuilt them on a weekend basis. ALso drag bikes need crisp throttle and good fueling across the board... not just the top end, cupcake.Good luck getting "quite a few more" with headwork on a 600. Been there, done that. Of course, you seem to be the expert. Edited May 13, 2009 by Todd#43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmuckingham Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Good luck getting "quite a few more" with headwork on a 600. Been there, done that. Of course, you seem to be the expert.well your even wrong on the size of my bike, and every cylinder head is different between makes and models. I am by no means an expert... I have just done a few things in my short time with internal combustion motors and I have my opinions and ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmuckingham Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Huh. I always wondered how it was possible for data to deteriorate. I've heard from more than one source that over time the installed data will start to... I don't know.. decode?? I've never owned a bike with a PCIII before Gemma. She's never hiccuped or given me any trouble concerning fueling. I just figured I'd been lucky so far. Thanks for the clarification. I'll store that bit of information and hope it doesn't "decode" in my brain. Its more the engine "decodes" than the PCIII itself. Fuel octanes change, motors get looser, compression changes, filter gets dirty, pretty much time and use makes the map become not optimal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmuckGirl Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Its more the engine "decodes" than the PCIII itself. Fuel octanes change, motors get looser, compression changes, filter gets dirty, pretty much time and use makes the map become not optimalAre we talking over the course of year? or how long until you see a noticable difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchmuckGirl Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I'm thinking unless you're riding a really' date=' really built engine or doing some serious racing these issues won't apply to a street bike.[/quote']Oh ok... I thought he meant any bike with a power commander.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yotaman88210 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Gemma's got a power commander and a custom map. It's been in there for almost 2 years with no problems. (and she's a racing Ducati.. well' date=' not really but don't tell her that. )[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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