Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 GM filing bankruptcy... Selling healthy assets to US government.This is officially fucking nuts. Socialism anyone?http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSN1943363120090519 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 That's the way the cookie crumbles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 It's not Socialism. It's "Nationalization." Get it straight' date=' Benny. [/quote']Socialism in political thought refers to economic theories of social organization advocating collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goodsLooks like both terms could be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 If you don't like the way the gov't/GM builds cars... don't buy them. Simple fix Capitalism still exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 If you don't like the way the gov't/GM builds cars... don't buy them. Simple fix Capitalism still exists.Ah, but what if they buy Chrysler also? Eh? They're heading in the same direction.Then the only American auto manufacturer left is Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Then all the 'anti-socialist' 'pro-American' crowd will have to buy Fords. They'll have to put their money where their mouths are, or else compromise their values and beliefs in favor of economics.Which, if capitalism works, shouldn't be a problem. The inefficient gov't industries will produce high priced, unsafe, abominations they label 'automobiles' while the private enterprise that is Ford will thrive on the private open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Then all the 'anti-socialist' 'pro-American' crowd will have to buy Fords. They'll have to put their money where their mouths are, or else compromise their values and beliefs in favor of economics.Which, if capitalism works, shouldn't be a problem. The inefficient gov't industries will produce high priced, unsafe, abominations they label 'automobiles' while the private enterprise that is Ford will thrive on the private open market.Good thing I'm a huge Ford fan and recently bought some Ford stocks for my portfolio. Hehehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Drordy Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Capitalism would be to let the company die w/o government interjection. Something or someone will be there to pickup the pieces and if not then you're right, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I fail to see the problem, It's not like the government wants to keep these companies. They are just helping the transition of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I fail to see the problem, It's not like the government wants to keep these companies. They are just helping the transition of ownership.Does the Constitution give the federal government the power to do this?The answer most obviously is no, meaning the federal government is yet again acting unconstitutionally and outside of their assigned powers. You don't see a problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I fail to see the problem, It's not like the government wants to keep these companies. They are just helping the transition of ownership.^^^--- winnar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Capitalism would be to let the company die w/o government interjection. Something or someone will be there to pickup the pieces and if not then you're right, that's the way the cookie crumbles.Exactly, which was my point against the bailouts of the automakers and banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Does the Constitution give the federal government the power to do this?The answer most obviously is no, meaning the federal government is yet again acting unconstitutionally and outside of their assigned powers. You don't see a problem with that?They aren't allowed to purchase companies? Don't they own the USPS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 They aren't allowed to purchase companies? Don't they own the USPS?The USPS operates independently, using ZERO tax dollars. Apples and oranges hombre.Plus, section 8 of Article 1 gives the legislative branch that explicit power:To establish Post Offices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I understand your view. The issue is, the shock to the economy by just saying "f*(k 'em" and letting them die would do greater damage to the overall than this "transitioning" process. You're also putting the onus on a lot of blue collar workers that had nothing to do with the decisions made in white collar management.And my contention is still that auto manufacturing is still vital to US defense, so plunking down a few dollars in the auto industry isn't as horrible as the HUGE chunk they put into the financial sector and half the people don't even know where that money went. More white collar bonuses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 The USPS operates independently, using ZERO tax dollars. Apples and oranges hombre.I agree that the gov't owned companies should not use tax dollars to operate, but the initial capital had to come from somewhere.If they do operate GM, they had better do it without using tax money, but there is no reason why the government couldn't own a car company, it's not forbidden in the constitution. That's all I was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Drordy Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I understand your view. The issue is, the shock to the economy by just saying "f*(k 'em" and letting them die would do greater damage to the overall than this "transitioning" process. You're also putting the onus on a lot of blue collar workers that had nothing to do with the decisions made in white collar management.And my contention is still that auto manufacturing is still vital to US defense, so plunking down a few dollars in the auto industry isn't as horrible as the HUGE chunk they put into the financial sector and half the people don't even know where that money went. More white collar bonuses?The UAW is one of the overriding reasons why the American auto industry is failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 The UAW is one of the overriding reasons why the American auto industry is failing.Says who? Fritz, the CEO was on TV the other day saying that the UAW was the exact opposite, they're part of the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I understand your view. The issue is, the shock to the economy by just saying "f*(k 'em" and letting them die would do greater damage to the overall than this "transitioning" process. You're also putting the onus on a lot of blue collar workers that had nothing to do with the decisions made in white collar management.And my contention is still that auto manufacturing is still vital to US defense, so plunking down a few dollars in the auto industry isn't as horrible as the HUGE chunk they put into the financial sector and half the people don't even know where that money went. More white collar bonuses?You know that saying, if it sounds too good to be true? So these workers were making $30+/hr to put fucking bolts on, spray cars, etc. They had the cream of the crop when it came to retirement and benefits. They were blue collar workers, not management or white collar. At some point they had to think to themselves, "boy, I'm getting paid a lot of money to do this job". The unions just kept demanding more and more, effectively crushing the American automotive industry. So no, I don't feel bad. The UAW is one of the overriding reasons why the American auto industry is failing.Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Says who? Fritz, the CEO was on TV the other day saying that the UAW was the exact opposite, they're part of the solution.Only if they're willing to renegotiate pay and benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Says who? Fritz, the CEO was on TV the other day saying that the UAW was the exact opposite, they're part of the solution.Yeah getting rid of the UAW is part of the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Yeah getting rid of the UAW is part of the solution. Quoted for truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Yeah getting rid of the UAW is part of the solution. they had their place, they had their time, but on the whole I think unions have outlived their usefulness. (with the rare exception) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Drordy Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Yeah getting rid of the UAW is part of the solution. I'm not necessarily saying that, but they need to shift their focus towards growing the industry and away from growing the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 http://gawker.com/5255215/glenn-beck-tries-to-convert-gm-ceo-fritz-henderson-into-kookdom-fails-miserably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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