Cols. Dispatch Helmet Poll

[hattrix]

Smokey, that is just the problem. They take the freedoms away piece by piece. Many people don't need to worry about smoking laws so they don't oppose it. Many people don't need to worry about helmet laws so they don't oppose it. Eventually, they will get to something you love but that many people don't need to worry about it. It isn't the issue you should stand for, it is the revocation of our liberties that you should stand against. I know the Nazi references are extreme but they were to make a point. Our freedoms get slowly eroded day by day. Slowly government keeps getting more involved in our lives. One day we will wake up and wonder what happened to our freedom. Apathy is the killer of liberty, not guns.

[Smokey]

You make good points, and I'm not saying your wrong. But if you look at a historical perspective with times such as McCarthy-ism many times the govt will push the boundries and then the people will push them back until some sort of equilibrium is restored. You just happen to be part of the pusher-backs, which is needed. On this particular issue, I find myself to lazy to push.

[thomez]

No law.

Insurance companies should keep track of it for premium purposes. Or you could sign up for a policy that requires helmets or one that does not and pay the difference in premium. Got a helmet policy and wrecked without one? No payout.

[KhaoticRebel]

I lived in Las Vegas, Nevada for a stint and they had the helmet law there. While it didn't really bother me, because I wear one all the time, parts of it did irk me. For example: In Las Vegas, many people get around by way of motorized scooters. These things would be on the same road as me, same traffic, same speed and they weren't required to wear a helmet!? I thought they were more likely to get hit because they didn't even ride in lanes half the time, but rather hugged the curb! I don't think we need a helmet law, because next they'll require more and more until there's nothing left. You can read my CD post...it's about all the gear and natural selection.

[Benyen Soljax]

Many people don't need to worry about smoking laws so they don't oppose it.

smoking affects people who dont smoke as well as those who do. i for one voted for the ban and i think life inside restaurants and bars is a lot nicer now that it is in effect. the helmet laws only affect those who ride the bikes, as cage drivers dont see a difference in their lives on the road whether or not weve got helmets on. totally different scenarios.

also, laws come into effect because we vote for them. government doesnt intrude unless we allow it. theres no unstoppable snowball effect.

[SpaceGhost]

I put my $50 Icon on each time and it saved my life at 80MPH on 71S. My doctors have looked and commented about the big mark on the back and all agree I would have died. Not to mention that the whole front is fucked that if by some miracle I would have lived I would have no face. Law or no law if you don't wear one good luck to you. Flame all you want but if you have kids or family and friends that care for you, shame on you for being selfish.......

BTW Ben I have a Dark Tinted Visor for the ICON if you want it, it has been sitting in the closet and it is mint as I had the clear one on. I thought you had one of the Icons on sale at Iron Pony. LMK, it's free BTW.

[XB12Ss]

I'm going to try to avoid hijacking as much as possible, but the smoking ban is terrible IMHO... I used to smoke and the smell of it now makes me want to puke, but shouldn't it be up to the business owner as to how their business is run?

smoking affects people who dont smoke as well as those who do. i for one voted for the ban and i think life inside restaurants and bars is a lot nicer now that it is in effect. the helmet laws only affect those who ride the bikes, as cage drivers dont see a difference in their lives on the road whether or not weve got helmets on. totally different scenarios.

also, laws come into effect because we vote for them. government doesnt intrude unless we allow it. theres no unstoppable snowball effect.

[ProudPops]

Smokey, that is just the problem. They take the freedoms away piece by piece. Many people don't need to worry about smoking laws so they don't oppose it. Many people don't need to worry about helmet laws so they don't oppose it. Eventually, they will get to something you love but that many people don't need to worry about it. It isn't the issue you should stand for, it is the revocation of our liberties that you should stand against. I know the Nazi references are extreme but they were to make a point. Our freedoms get slowly eroded day by day. Slowly government keeps getting more involved in our lives. One day we will wake up and wonder what happened to our freedom. Apathy is the killer of liberty, not guns.

That is the most well put response I've heard! That's how we may lose our firearm rights, and if anyone is as old as me, that's how Joan Claybrook almost got motorcycles banned. Just look it up in the archives of the AMA, the seventies was real close to the end of motorcycles in the USA.

If you're not a registerd voter you better be one or shut the Fuck up. Your vote does count!

[Zecho]

"Use At Your Own Risk"

[thomez]

also, laws come into effect because we vote for them. government doesnt intrude unless we allow it. theres no unstoppable snowball effect.

democracy is tyranny

[EagledriverDRZ]

I used to smoke and the smell of it now makes me want to puke

ROLMAO......I didnt see ya puke when we stopped for gas...LOL...And i burned me 2 before we left....AHhh the smoking ban dont ya just love it..

[XB12Ss]

ROLMAO......I didnt see ya puke when we stopped for gas...LOL...And i burned me 2 before we left....AHhh the smoking ban dont ya just love it..

I choked it down... Heh, actually I was up wind from you...

[900Z1]

I hate wearing a helmet.....But I wear it... The main reason I wear a helmet is...

A friend who I worked with for many years, wrecked not wearing a helmet, was in a coma for over a year before he died...I visited him hoping he would come out of coma, but he never did. I see people riding on interstate with no helmet and know they are fools.....But I don't think in the land of The Free..anyone should be forced to wear one........Too many laws....Not enough Brains.......

JMHO

[fusion]

I think the current Ohio law is fine for helmets. Minors (under 18) and first year licensed riders wear helmets and after that let the rider decide. A rider at least has to know there's a risk riding without a helmet and most riders won't understand that first day on a bike. Unfortunately there's too many riders that aren't smart enough to ever get it.

I saw something earlier in the thread so I'll add, in most states motorcycle laws apply to scooters as well. That includes licensing.

I also think MSF should be mandatory for all riders before they get their license.

[hattrix]

Benyan Soljax,

Can I get some of what you are smoking??? Laws are voted on by the people??? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Very few are. Most are passed by legislatures not by the people. How many people voted for Income Tax (which until put into place by congress was unconstitutional)? NONE!!! Congress put it in. How many people voted for the speed limit? NONE!!! Congress did that. How many people voted for minimum wage? NONE!!! How many people voted for a Helmet law in most states?? Most of the time NONE!! It is put into place by politicians not the people. The politicians enact laws based on whether it will get them votes or lose them votes. You have to be joking that we pass the laws??

As for smoking laws...YOU think that life is better in bars and restaurants. Some smokers do not. How many people thought eating in restaurants was better during prohibition??? Probably a lot. I bet many didn't think so though. I bet restaurant owners wanted to make the decision which customers they pleased. Government took that right away. What do you like to do? Does everybody like it? Probably not. What happens when the government takes that right away. Should I not care because I don't like it? No!! I do care because it is another freedom taken away.

People, one last time, don't stand for the law, stand against the revocation of rights.

[Benyen Soljax]

well...you vote for the politicians that vote on these laws. if you have a problem, figure out who is going to cater to your desires and then vote for them. dont bitch to me. as for smoking and prohibition. again, totally different. you can drink a bottle of liquor right next to me and it has no impact on my health without you doing something like fighting me or something. smoking kills people everyday from second hand smoke. go talk to your doctor if you dont believe me.

[hattrix]

BUUUULLLLLSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTT

There is NO proof that second hand smoke kills people. Good thing you have a sheep as your icon because that is what you are. Blindly following what they tell you. Ask your doctor to give you the proof that second hand smoke has killed anyone. There is NO credible proof that second hand smoke kills anyone AND the uncredible "proof" is from studies where people are exposed to second hand smoke for very extended periods of time. Offer one SHRED of evidence before you make an assertion that it kills people every day. NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHING says that being exposed to second hand smoke in a bar or restaurant for a couple hours will have ANY lasting effect whatsoever. All I can say to you is BAAAAH BAAAAH! Keep listening to the insurance companies tell you their lies. Seriously, ask your doctor for one study that proves that second hand smoke kills. I promise you, he won't come up with one because one doesn't exist. It is a complete and utter MYTH!!! Not to mention there is PROOF that people get killed by drunk drivers. Honestly, there is more credible evidence to make drinking illegal than smoking!

Now it is the politicians? I thought we make the laws?? Hmmm. Politicians, no matter what they say will vote for what gets them votes. If enough people speak out about a law, the politician will vote against it. That is what I am trying to do. Get people like you to understand that it is the politicians and unless you speak out against government taking your freedom, they will keep voting for it. They will vote with the loudest voice.

[fusion]

BUUUULLLLLSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTT

There is NO proof that second hand smoke kills people.

I'm not sure this is true. Hell I know people who live people who smoke that have developed a smokers cough. Sure it's their choice, but to suggest there is zero evidence that second hand smoke can cause illnesses that lead to death is plain retarded.

NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHING says that being exposed to second hand smoke in a bar or restaurant for a couple hours will have ANY lasting effect whatsoever.

What about people that work in these establishments daily who aren't smokers?

Now it is the politicians? I thought we make the laws?? Hmmm. Politicians, no matter what they say will vote for what gets them votes. If enough people speak out about a law, the politician will vote against it. That is what I am trying to do. Get people like you to understand that it is the politicians and unless you speak out against government taking your freedom, they will keep voting for it. They will vote with the loudest voice.

errrr Politicians do make the laws. They are elected by the people to represent them. You don't like what's going on, you do what the rest of do and call our reps and vote for someone new.

[Benyen Soljax]

BUUUULLLLLSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTT

There is NO proof that second hand smoke kills people. Good thing you have a sheep as your icon because that is what you are. Blindly following what they tell you. Ask your doctor to give you the proof that second hand smoke has killed anyone. There is NO credible proof that second hand smoke kills anyone AND the uncredible "proof" is from studies where people are exposed to second hand smoke for very extended periods of time. Offer one SHRED of evidence before you make an assertion that it kills people every day. NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHING says that being exposed to second hand smoke in a bar or restaurant for a couple hours will have ANY lasting effect whatsoever. All I can say to you is BAAAAH BAAAAH! Keep listening to the insurance companies tell you their lies. Seriously, ask your doctor for one study that proves that second hand smoke kills. I promise you, he won't come up with one because one doesn't exist. It is a complete and utter MYTH!!! Not to mention there is PROOF that people get killed by drunk drivers. Honestly, there is more credible evidence to make drinking illegal than smoking!

Now it is the politicians? I thought we make the laws?? Hmmm. Politicians, no matter what they say will vote for what gets them votes. If enough people speak out about a law, the politician will vote against it. That is what I am trying to do. Get people like you to understand that it is the politicians and unless you speak out against government taking your freedom, they will keep voting for it. They will vote with the loudest voice.

man you need to get laid or something...i would say a chill pill would do the trick but youre way too mad. listen to fusion or something man cause i dont feel like arguing anymore.

[hattrix]

Ben, not mad. Just hate when people are apathetic about freedoms being taken away or when people blindly follow what the TV tells them.

Fusion,

I said there is no CREDIBLE EVIDENCE. That would mean studies to prove what you are saying. Personal experience is not proof. Not even close to proof. I do believe I said that there is "UNCREDIBLE PROOF" for people who are exposed long term but of course you ignored that. That would cover people who live with smokers and people who work at places where there is smoking. They can choose not to work there. It is called freedom. I know this whole freedom thing is a foreign concept to you but you should try it, it can be nice. Finally, there are still no credible studies that prove there are long term lasting effects from exposure to second hand smoke. Even among people who work in those fields. California has had a smoking ban for 15 years. Studies show NO decrease in cancer rates among bartenders and waitresses. NONE!

As for your last thing. I do that. I am trying to get people here to realize that there freedoms are being eroded. You don't care about an issue where freedoms are being taken and you ignore it. It gets taken away. Then, another freedom is taken away and you don't care about the issue so you ignore it. Then eventually an issue comes that you do care about and you lose that freedom and won't understand why. Just wake up and realize what you are giving up each time you allow ANY freedom to be taken.

[fusion]

Ben, not mad. Just hate when people are apathetic about freedoms being taken away or when people blindly follow what the TV tells them.

Fusion,

I said there is no CREDIBLE EVIDENCE. That would mean studies to prove what you are saying. Personal experience is not proof. Not even close to proof. I do believe I said that there is "UNCREDIBLE PROOF" for people who are exposed long term but of course you ignored that. That would cover people who live with smokers and people who work at places where there is smoking. They can choose not to work there. It is called freedom. I know this whole freedom thing is a foreign concept to you but you should try it, it can be nice. Finally, there are still no credible studies that prove there are long term lasting effects from exposure to second hand smoke. Even among people who work in those fields. California has had a smoking ban for 15 years. Studies show NO decrease in cancer rates among bartenders and waitresses. NONE!

As for your last thing. I do that. I am trying to get people here to realize that there freedoms are being eroded. You don't care about an issue where freedoms are being taken and you ignore it. It gets taken away. Then, another freedom is taken away and you don't care about the issue so you ignore it. Then eventually an issue comes that you do care about and you lose that freedom and won't understand why. Just wake up and realize what you are giving up each time you allow ANY freedom to be taken.

Tell you what. You've already proven to be not very bright. Why don't YOU provide evidence that contradicts studies that disagree with you? I'll be waiting for links..thanks.

Freedom stops at the person next to you. I'm betting you're pretty damn young and haven't experienced much. If you're older...you need to get out more..might want to start with actually getting your GED or something.

[hattrix]

First, I have blown every argument you have made out of the water. The one proving to be dumb is you. Second, I told you to give me one study that proves second hand smoke kills. Your great response is show me a study!! I told you there aren't any. HAHAHA. Nice!! How can I provide evidence against studies that disagree with me when there aren't any studies!!!????

Now, I am older than you, have a degree, working on MBA, lived in 3 different states, been to four countries and studied History. What have you done in your pathetic life? HAHA Show me a study. You are a riot. I ask for study, you say you know people that cough!! HAHA

You are the most clueless individual I have ever talked to on a chat board.

[Benyen Soljax]

First, I have blown every argument you have made out of the water. The one proving to be dumb is you. Second, I told you to give me one study that proves second hand smoke kills. Your great response is show me a study!! I told you there aren't any. HAHAHA. Nice!!

Now, I am older than you, have an MBA, lived in 3 different states, been two four countries and studied History. What have you done in your pathetic life? HAHA Show me a study. You are a riot. I ask for study, you say you know people that cough!! HAHA

You are the most clueless individual I have ever talked to on a chat board.

and youre a jackass. did you come here to find people to ride with or to argue with people that ride? im leaning towards the latter.

[hattrix]

I came here to talk to COOL people and find COOL people to ride with. You and fusion don't fit into either category. I came here to talk to people about issues facing bikers. You come back with false and illogical arguments. I am far from a jackass. I am an ass to people who don't think or act like asses.

[fusion]

First, I have blown every argument you have made out of the water. The one proving to be dumb is you. Second, I told you to give me one study that proves second hand smoke kills. Your great response is show me a study!! I told you there aren't any. HAHAHA. Nice!! How can I provide evidence against studies that disagree with me when there aren't any studies!!!????

Now, I am older than you, have a degree, working on MBA, lived in 3 different states, been to four countries and studied History. What have you done in your pathetic life? HAHA Show me a study. You are a riot. I ask for study, you say you know people that cough!! HAHA

You are the most clueless individual I have ever talked to on a chat board.

You know what, my GED comment was uncalled for. I take that back.

Now for the rest. See if we can keep this civil.

First...you never asked me for a study. I responded to a post where you are saying there are no credible studies saying second hand smoke is harmful and claiming a study that there has been no decrease in cancer in CA among workers there. I was merely asking for a study you do find credible then. my personal example was stating it doesn't take a study to show it has an affect. Of course it would take a good study show just what the affects are over time. Unfortunately we can't human test these days.

Second, yeah I have a degree too. I don't find that amazing in it's self. Everyone I work with has varying degrees. Grew up a military brat and did a stint in the AF for four years for no other reason, but to serve my country before starting my career. I've lived in 6 states because of that. What are counting as countries? Farthest has been England. We aren't counting Mexico and Canada are we? Most of the places I have been are in Central America; Costa Rica, Panama, Belize...a ton of islands.