the 08 zx10

[Casper]

http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2007/ZX10R/

I kinda like it. Definitely want to take one for a spin.

[flounder]

yeah I read that yesterday... It will be a good bike for sure. I like that they finally dis-spell the myth about "Traction Control" and talk about what it really does. Ive read a few articles on it. Basically its only going to help someone who tracks it or hits twisties hard. If you wack it WOT in a turn, it will put you on your ass just like any other bike.

[Cleaner]

yeah I read that yesterday... It will be a good bike for sure. I like that they finally dis-spell the myth about "Traction Control" and talk about what it really does. Ive read a few articles on it. Basically its only going to help someone who tracks it or hits twisties hard. If you wack it WOT in a turn, it will put you on your ass just like any other bike.

I may be in the minority but I don't like how most of the sportbikes are being made more for the track than the street.

[Dweezel]

I may be in the minority but I don't like how most of the sportbikes are being made more for the track than the street.

isn't that pretty much their purpose? As sportbikes? Race on Sunday, sell it Monday. NASCAR used to be like that, that's how you got all your muscle cars.

[flounder]

I may be in the minority but I don't like how most of the sportbikes are being made more for the track than the street.

Well, they have always been made for the track so your statement is a bit confusing from that standpoint.

If you want a worse handeling, worse performing bike, then buy a harley.

I really dont have any idea what your getting at. What do you want them to make a sportbike like. Should it be called "Not a Sportbike" These models are made for the track and other models are not. if you like the other models then get one of them.

GSXR's, R6, R1, ZX6, ZX10 are all designed for the track plain and simple.

[Moto-Brian]

yeah I read that yesterday... It will be a good bike for sure. I like that they finally dis-spell the myth about "Traction Control" and talk about what it really does. Ive read a few articles on it. Basically its only going to help someone who tracks it or hits twisties hard. If you wack it WOT in a turn, it will put you on your ass just like any other bike.

EXACTLY!!! On GDC, those tools over there don't get it. ROC set-up like Kawi has is the same as the Bizaaz shit. Those guys kill me...

I am seriously looking at this bike for next year. I can get a good price through the race deal and MIGHT consider it. Of course, Flounderpie needs to buy my bike first and sell his piece of shiite first...

[flounder]

EXACTLY!!! On GDC, those tools over there don't get it. ROC set-up like Kawi has is the same as the Bizaaz shit. Those guys kill me...

I am seriously looking at this bike for next year. I can get a good price through the race deal and MIGHT consider it. Of course, Flounderpie needs to buy my bike first and sell his piece of shiite first...

Im seriously going to kick you in the dickaroo...

Give me a call about your OPP shit.. Seriously, Im up all night so so dont worry about the time. I know Toad wants to put his shit up tomorrow.

Thinking about switching to Kawi huh.. Facking traitor.. though you liked the 750

[Cleaner]

No Flounder, I don't want a Harley. But even though these bikes are made for the track, the fact is that most of them will never see a track. They include bells and whistles that most consumers will not use. As a result, they are paying for items that they are not using. There will be consumers who use those items and push the bike but the vast majority of us will not. That's what I am saying.

[Moto-Brian]

No Flounder, I don't want a Harley. But even though these bikes are made for the track, the fact is that most of them will never see a track. They include bells and whistles that most consumers will not use. As a result, they are paying for items that they are not using. There will be consumers who use those items and push the bike but the vast majority of us will not. That's what I am saying.

True, but realize this - sportbikes are ALWAYS designed for the racing side. Why? R&D. Racing is a trickle down effect. You find upside down forks and radial brake calipers on cruisers now. Floating rotors, etc...

Point is that racing is a test ground. It is a place where companies find what works and what doesn't. The deal with bikes becoming more and more race oriented and less street oriented is simple - if it is built stock to essentially be good enough to race as is and has teh needed trick parts called for by rules from sanctioning bodies, they are easily faster and better race machines.

In 5 years, I am willing to bet that passenger seats will no longer be on sport bikes.

You need it. Look at cars. Think a Corvette, Ferrari, Porshce, etc. are needed for street use? They are test beds to make traditional cars better. Performance isn't just how fast you go and how well it handles. Performance leads to efficiency and better products overall... Cars become better in the long run if a company has a race program to develope parts, learn technologies, etc...

Sport bikes are only going to get more and more race oriented. Get over it. Like Flounder stated - buy something else. There are plenty of options. An HD is an extreme, but there are bikes like the R6 Sport, the ZX14, VRF800, etc. Not real racey anymore as technology has surpassed those machines, but you get the idea...

[Putty]

I expected a different reaction on the "first ride"...They don't seem to be much happier on it than they were the 07. Bike looks good, I like the new features..I don't like the 8lbs increase. Looks like the 06/07 is still the lightest liter in the business...thus far..(have not heard in from Honda). The "traction control" would be nice cause it just works w/out effort from me...unlike the switching A-B-C on the Gixxer. I just want to see what kind of power these 08s are putting down. Yes, i'm kinda partial to the 07, but hey!

[shittygsxr]

I think I saved more than 15lbs when I removed the catalitic off of the k6 600 so once you change that out, the bike should be good to go. Isnt this the first year for a catalitic on the 10r???

[Moto-Brian]

I expected a different reaction on the "first ride"...They don't seem to be much happier on it than they were the 07. Bike looks good, I like the new features..I don't like the 8lbs increase. Looks like the 06/07 is still the lightest liter in the business...thus far..(have not heard in from Honda). The "traction control" would be nice cause it just works w/out effort from me...unlike the switching A-B-C on the Gixxer. I just want to see what kind of power these 08s are putting down. Yes, i'm kinda partial to the 07, but hey!

The GSXR doesn't have traction control... The switch tames the mapping for IF you are riding in rain, for example...

Racers are using the 3 way mapping for different maps - rain, race fuel, pump gas.... As examples... NOT traction control. Like it was stated in the sidebar - you have to be pretty freakin fast to switch the button from a to c as often as needed while the rear wheel is spinning...

The Yosh E Prom allows for a piggy back set-up like Bazaaz has...

[Moto-Brian]

I expected a different reaction on the "first ride"...They don't seem to be much happier on it than they were the 07.

i wouldn't put much credit towards AMA and their magazine test. I'd read up on what RRW says to get a better picture.

Weight doesn't mean much, either as it has the most HP (Not sure what the Honda will do for 08) of the liter bikes... Plus, where that weight is located can actually be a good thing...handling-wise...

[Putty]

The GSXR doesn't have traction control... The switch tames the mapping for IF you are riding in rain, for example...

Racers are using the 3 way mapping for different maps - rain, race fuel, pump gas.... As examples... NOT traction control. Like it was stated in the sidebar - you have to be pretty freakin fast to switch the button from a to c as often as needed while the rear wheel is spinning...

The Yosh E Prom allows for a piggy back set-up like Bazaaz has...

I never said the GSXR had traction control....I appreciate your reason why the A-B-C is good, but for a person like me and most others on this board...It's USELESS. Also, it doesn't matter how quick you are cause you have to hold it, then click it...by then, you're eating pavement. I've been on literbikes for years w/out it...it's about throttle control...Everyone survived before w/out it. Yes, it helps, but I'd be fine w/out it.

Weight doesn't mean much

If that's the case...why are you racers always trying to get rid of it...?

[Moto-Brian]

I never said the GSXR had traction control....I appreciate your reason why the A-B-C is good, but for a person like me and most others on this board...It's USELESS. Also, it doesn't matter how quick you are cause you have to hold it, then click it...by then, you're eating pavement. I've been on literbikes for years w/out it...it's about throttle control...Everyone survived before w/out it. Yes, it helps, but I'd be fine w/out it.

If that's the case...why are you racers always trying to get rid of it...?

The three way mapping is actually really great for street riders. I don't care how many years you have with liter bikes - 99% of the street guys cannot ride them to potential and therefore if they get beyond their own abilities in an environment such as rain, that softer map would be a great tool to assist a rider... It also allows for more precise tuning if you use a PC or the Yosh system. Some guys use Map A for race fuel when doing track days, Map B for street use with pump gas and Map C for rain or when a softer map is needed/wanted. How that isn't useful needs explaining to me...

As far as racers wanting to always getting rid of such things - TRUE traction control (not Bazaaz or this Kaw set-up) is unfair to the privateers. Privateers are a bulk of the number in terms of entered racers at any said event outside WSBK and MotoGP. TRUE TC is expensive and outside the realms of what a privateer can afford.

Even with the ROC stuff like Bazaaz offers, it is a deal where a privateer needs to buy this as it is allowed and a slight advantage can be had. If they don't, they fall short - even by a little.

Over the course of time, electronics will get more and more involved to the point where it will become like MotoGP and the rider becomes less and less a factor. Not saying they aren't, just saying that as the years progress, electronics level the field more and more... It takes real ability out of the equation more and more as technology moves forward. Think riding a 500 cc Moto GP bike in 94 vs an RCV212 now...

Overall, we want it to be level and fair. The stuff you see on these bikes now like Kaw has and Suzuki's triple map set-up, allows for expansion and better tuning on the track as stock based rules only allow what comes on a bike via production. So, companies design, develope and implement these new electronics for street applications, but with racing in their minds first and foremost. Companies like Yosh and Dynojet get their tuning systems to allow for even better tuning of such systems. Outside of illegla sensors, it is getting more and more who has the better electric set-up...

However, it helps a TON for the street rider. Especially in adverse conditions where it can be very useful. Maybe too much of a crutch like say, a slipper clutch and stuff, but it helps nonetheless.

Throttle control via one's wrist is obviously subjective. If you are great at it, cool. However, most aren't that great at it and so, this helps. Plus, ability and throttle control are something that is mixed. Lower ability can have good throttle control, but if something gets out of hand, that lower ability doesn't mean shit when they panic and don't know what to do. Throttle control gets to a certain level and then is useless as their ability can only take them so far...

[Moto-Brian]

I just saw you saying the getting rid of comment was pointed towards weight...

You guys always compare weight and hp numbers to classify the rankings of a bike, no?

We as racers strip it down to bare essentials, but in events like a Suzuki Cup race, weight is restricted and set at a limit. Sometimes, we have to add weight to meet requirements. If so, we put it centrally and in a place that is positive. High, low, center, etc. Whatever helps in teh handling of that particular bike...

For the street as we are discussing in terms of you and a majority of the riders on this board, if the bike weighs 8 lbs more than last year, I bet you cannot tell. Why? I bet Kawasaki has it centrally located and well placed to the point that it doesn't effect handling and the sort.

Now, it could be the addition of a catalayic set-up like referred to above. If so, that is central to the bike and most likely never will be noticed.

Shedding weight will always be a good thing. However, when comparing bikes, sure, it is heavier than last year, but if the bike handles better and applies power better (Last year's and the 04/05 ZX10s handled like trucks), is that not a good thing? It would make the bike better than the previous bike.

Or, if it is 8 lbs of stuff to meet emissions, then it really doesn't matter as you and even racers will remove it for replacement aftermarket units... So, it could literally be the same weight, maybe even a little less. If that's the case, it is even better.

Kaw needed a focus on handling vs previous model years. I think they will show they focused on that. Kaw's motors have always been solid and powerful. Their chassis always seem to be the weakest link.

[Putty]

The majority of your basis is geared towards a racer. The average street rider that is caught in the rain, is making a SLOW direct line HOME. Yes, using C map for less power would be great in that condition, but when I didn't have it and was caught in the rain, I didn't need to it get home. I, like most others, aren't speeding around wet corners or even accelerating hard in adverse conditions. As I stated....it's probably gold to racers...good for them. I also agree it would be great for a person lacking the ability to manage the throttle in such conditions....To agree....how about I say it's useless to me.

Edit:

I have no idea how the 04/05s handle...Your statement about the 06/07s is far from true. I have owned every brand except the Honda 1000....had several of the 600s and my 06/07 ZX10 handles better than any i've had..even the 07 gsxr. I also know that weight makes a difference..Yes, there are heavier things that handle better than lighter things...I'll give you that. My point was even though weight is distributed differently....it'd be better w/out it. Also, yes, most street racers/riders do compare HP and weight to classify ranking...It's different than your world where slower bikes are dragging faster ones around the track. Out here on the street....least amount of weight and higher amount of HP is the target.

[Moto-Brian]

The majority of your basis is geared towards a racer. The average street rider that is caught in the rain, is making a SLOW direct line HOME. Yes, using C map for less power would be great in that condition, but when I didn't have it and was caught in the rain, I didn't need to it get home. I, like most others, aren't speeding around wet corners or even accelerating hard in adverse conditions. As I stated....it's probably gold to racers...good for them. I also agree it would be great for a person lacking the ability to manage the throttle in such conditions....To agree....how about I say it's useless to me.

To you, maybe useless. However, my bias isn't race oriented. I know MANY riders who avidly will ride in ANY conditions. Rain, snow, etc. If you are on a trip to Florida or similar and have a distance of 200 plus miles and you start off in the dry, what happens if it starts raining? You going to bail and pull under a bridge like a cruiser puss and wait for the weather to clear up?

The race basis was pointed towards the fact that some cannot understand why they build these bikes with an emphasis on race vs. street and not the other way around...

When I did ride the street more often, I rode all the time. I used my bike for school, for play, etc. Many a time I rode 60 plus miles to school in decent dry conditions to only come out in a down pour. I rode 315 towards home (Old north 315) and a few other back roads. I learned a LOT by doing it so often, but even back then, had an option for a soft map been around, I would have benefit from it. Hell, I rode last year from Cincy to my house in a thunder storm via the interstate up until Delaware where I picked up the back roads to get home. I'd have used that soft map had it been available. Why? Easier to focus on other things and easier to ride. Not ride fast, just easier. Why is that a bad thing?

You are a minority of people who thinks it is useless. If you give it the cold shoulder, why do you have a newer ZX10? Why don't you still have the old ZX10 from the 80's? Maybe an FZR1000 with carbs, traditional electronics, standard forks and the old style Delta Box frame?

Technology makes things easier to ride, easier to have fun on and easier to learn with. A crutch like an ROC traction control system will allow a lesser rider the ability to learn what not to do next time if they can be slightly saved by the system this time.

[Putty]

To you, maybe useless. However, my bias isn't race oriented. I know MANY riders who avidly will ride in ANY conditions. Rain, snow, etc. If you are on a trip to Florida or similar and have a distance of 200 plus miles and you start off in the dry, what happens if it starts raining? You going to bail and pull under a bridge like a cruiser puss and wait for the weather to clear up?

You would NEVER see me or hear about me doing anything like this, so I will not address it. After a ride to Cleveland, I want to catch the Greyhound back. I have a new ZX10 because I typically buy a new bike every two years. Why I chose the ZX10....well, I didn't...My GF did and it.....well, that's another story.

You are a minority of people who thinks it is useless.

That is fine....Life would be boring if we all thought and acted alike. I'm willing to bet I am not the only one that doesn't use it...

[Moto-Brian]

IYour statement about the 06/07s is far from true. I have owned every brand except the Honda 1000....had several of the 600s and my 06/07 ZX10 handles better than any i've had..even the 07 gsxr. I also know that weight makes a difference..Yes, there are heavier things that handle better than lighter things...I'll give you that. My point was even though weight is distributed differently....it'd be better w/out it. Also, yes, most street racers/riders do compare HP and weight to classify ranking...It's different than your world where slower bikes are dragging faster ones around the track. Out here on the street....least amount of weight and higher amount of HP is the target.

The 06 ZX10 doesn't handle better than an 07 GSXR 600. To you, maybe, but to anyone else, no. It takes a LOT of input to ride it hard and fast. You get off a GSXR 600 or 750 and ride as hard as that on a 1000 and you'll be beat. If that was the case, every one of the 1000 riders we see at STT would be blowing guys like Drew and I away. Doesn't happen...

Even to other racers - look at lap times. A 600 running 2-3 seconds slower than a liter bike isn't uncommon. To mere mortals that gap is closer...

Plus, as far as the ZX is concerned, in street trim, the R1 is better and the GSXR handles better. Transitions on the ZX are tough to complete and get through. The GSXR handles them with much greater ease - not 600/750 ease, but easier. The R1 is lacking that brute force of teh ZX10, but it transitions well and actually feels the lightest to me in terms of overall handling. the ZX just takes more effort. The truck comment probably wasn't fair as it is easier than the 04/05s, but unless you dump money in the forks and shock, stock to stock, the ZX10 is harder to ride fast than the R1 and GSXR1000... 06/07s against one another...

The ZX10 is a GREAT liter bike. Probably the best overall, but each has a short fall. The ZX10 doesn't handle AS WELL as the other two. It makes up in power and delivery, but in terms of handling and overall performance oriented riding, the GSXR is better.

Again, you make it sound that I have no street cred. I am more than willing to take a stock 600 and ride with a group of liter bikes. I have as recently as last year and the guys I rode with weren't slouches. However, the 600 was fine. Had to ring it's neck, but it was fine and actually was held up on more than one occasion with the liter bikes. A 750, no question. unless the guy was a racer, a 750 is a better street choice (solo riding - not two up if that is what you mostly do) than any 1000 out there. Again, easier to handle and easier to ride faster...than a liter bike.

Drew can comment more as he is a 600 rider, but I spent over 10 years riding and racing 600s. I can tell you that I have logged more than enough miles on 600s, 750s, and liter bikes both street and track to tell you that based on a MAJORITY, most street riders in terms of average riders out there, cannot ride a liter bike to even remotely close in terms of ability. That is a hard and tough fact to get around at times - especially if the other person reading has a liter bike, but truth be told, you'd be faster on a 750...

To say a 1000 handles better than a 600/750 is a sign that you probably are speaking in terms of your own ability - not the general public and what even the professionals state time and time again.

[Moto-Brian]

You would NEVER see me or hear about me doing anything like this, so I will not address it. After a ride to Cleveland, I want to catch the Greyhound back. I have a new ZX10 because I typically buy a new bike every two years. Why I chose the ZX10....well, I didn't...My GF did and it.....well, that's another story.

That is fine....Life would be boring if we all thought and acted alike. I'm willing to bet I am not the only one that uses it...

I understand what you are saying. My points are that people read these threads when considering a bike. The problem is that a select few make statements that pertain to solely themselves and not the average rider.

So, point is that if someone was looking at these threads and responses, they'd read a 1000 handles better than a 600, that traction control is useless unless you race, and that the ZX10 is a better bike than any of the other 1000s.

The last one is more opinion than anything, but the other two are falsehoods that are not fair to say. For yourself, sure. The average rider, no. I am sure in this thread alone, more guys ride in rain than others who don't. Now, look, if you want to ride and have no reason other than "just cause" and you go to the door and see it pouring, staying home is what most will do.

But, to buy a bus ticket as opposed to riding home in bad weather, most will ride back and deal with conditions.

Plus, adverse weather makes you a better rider.... Better is just that - better.

[Putty]

All I know is what felt best to me....When my 06 died, RIP....I had the option to get a 07 gsxr or an R1...My GFs was already in the garage and I had ridden it quite a bit. My ZX10 had just over 1000 miles on it. After riding both.....The ZX10 was a better ride to me, therefore I got the 07. Dude, I don't even know your name, so I have no idea what your credentials are...nor do you know mine. I've never been on the track and don't really care to...You probably do know more about power to weight, suspension, and gearing than I do. That does not mean I am ignorant when it comes to what I know/experienced. I know 1st hand a 600 can compete with literbikes...I watched R6chic hand out ass all summer. Seems this has gone further than my initial point....I also never said I ride my 10r at it's full ability and I am not claiming I am the best rider...I'm good at it and can be schooled.

[yotaman88210]

Ducati FTMFW!! Haha. Sorry had too...

[Putty]

Ducati FTMFW!! Haha. Sorry had too...

Italian rubbish!

[flounder]

Last year's ZX10s handled like trucks

HAHAH.. I new this would get Putty going...

Point to note is the switching tires between the 190/50 in 04-05 to the 190/55 in 06-07..

That would feel huge to a competent street rider that likes twisties, a squid would never notice.