Handling Differences?

[Zorro]

I have always wanted to flog a 750. I got to ride Flounders but with the headshake from the Rotors at 100mph, 120mph was all I was willing to do. Yeah the 750 didn't have that instant power the 1000 had but had enough in 1st and 2nd to keep those used to 1000s happy.

Thing with wheelies is that the CBRs always had a more forward bias even though one may not feel it in the ergos, but they always were known for refusing to wheelie.

JohnnyMac's CBR, from what I can tell from watching him, comes up with ease.

[Chrisoh]

Yeah with any 1000 someone who knows how to wheelie will make it come up with ease. Someone like myself who never got any good at wheelies will have a harder time. Even my 929 i could tell seemed to pull forward more then pivot around the rear axle on hard acceleration.

[Moto-Brian]

Flame away...

Ok, on the street - 1000s will work better because you can be lazy. You have a TON of power when needed and such - wheelies, straight line, etc - sure... the question was handling differences... On the street, take your tightest winding road and THINK hard and long before you respond. Don't let ego and pride dictate what you say in response.

In that environment where handling is key and VERY much noticeable, a 600 is easier to ride fast than a 1000. Hands down. New crop 600s are at the 110+ hp range. Easy power to deal with and yet, more than enough to rip through stuff.

However, most street guys who ride 1000s are used to low end grunt. Being lazy on the rpms and such. They ride a 600 similarly and hate them. You need to rip the guts out of a 600 to get it where it is happiest.

The 750 is the cat's meow for the street. I would wager damn near any dollar amount that I can get a guy to go faster on a 750 than he can on a 1000 through the same set of winding turns and twists. The 750 shares the 600's dimensions and almost the same weight. Think FX 600. With 125 plus hp on a 750, it falls shy by 25-30 hp to a 1000, but again, weight and ability to flop the bike around. A 750 cannot be ridden like a 600 as much, but it is close. You don't need to ring it's neck and yet, you cannot be as lazy as a 1000...

Best handling: Street

-600/750 1st place

-1000 second.

Track:

Track is different. It combines an environment with a long straight typically and aggressive turns. A 1000 will ultimately run faster due to the straight line speed. However, a like skilled rider has a tough time going faster on a 1000 than they would a 600. Look at even the top pro times. 1000 SS machines are 3 seconds faster than the same rider on their 600. That's a point shown that the 1000 is something that can go faster, but if the track is more tight than long straights, the 600 times are closer.

Same deal - handling was the topic. Turns 7-10 at Mid-Ohio. There isn't a guy that can say with any truth that a 1000 will rip through those turns faster than a 750 or even a 600. Look at split times. Time from the entrance of turn 8 up under the bridge and to the crest of 10. 600 times are most likely exactly the same if not faster. I can get times splits if need be, but I know for a fact that Drew can pull me on my 750 in the tighter stuff. Why? The 750 needs a little more finesse to rip through there as fast. Rear wheel hp prevents total twist of the wrist as compared to what you can do with a 600. Same holds true with a liter bike. Twist the throttle as hard as a 600 through those turns and you are a poster child for the high side...

Guys will bicker and whine back and forth that it isn't true. Guys will say their new 2007 1000 is better than their 600 when their 600 was a 2002 or the last 600 they rode was over 2 years ago. The current 600s are pretty freakin amazing. Of course, you have to really ride them and it is no different than MX bikes. A newbie can go as fast on a 450 because they can be lazy. They go slower on a 250 because they really need to ring the 250's neck. Their ability prevents that and the bigger bike takes less effort to go as fast. Doesn't always mean bigger is better...

Handling. That was the topic - not how fast, not how easy to ride wheelies, not how fast down the interstate. Handling. Thinking a 1000 is close to a 600 is retarded... Ride any given twisty road. Watch your times and speed. Do it first on the 1000. Next time through on a 600, it will be easier. Why? Handles easier - less input.

Nuff said. Carry on.

[flounder]

I have a feeling that Lizard is going to be posting allot in the coming weeks.

Slacker on vaca until Jan... LOOSER.....

[420gsxr1000]

.....thats what i said too lol....but only allot shorter

[Chrisoh]

Hey Lizard would you agree that being lazy on the street on a 1k could be a little safer then going all out to get the same time on a 600 riding it closer to the edge? (Just curious)

I agree with you on the Mid OH. The 1000 is a handful in the 7-11 section with all that power (I had more air over wheelie hill going 2 seconds slower on the 1000 then I ever had on the 600 because of power but still 2 seconds slower). And yes a lot riders (racers and street) are faster on 600s then on 1000s (includes expert racers) as the reason Lizard states the Control the 1000 requires is that much more refined.

I feel safer on the street on a 1000 because I am riding more lazy with the gas and can still have the same feel. I really hope to get a 06/07 to race this year to get a feel for the newer 600s at pace as I have only been on my 03 600.

I know I am not skilled enough to feel much of a difference in handling between the 6 and 1k, but hopefully I can develop it.

[Moto-Brian]

Hey Lizard would you agree that being lazy on the street on a 1k could be a little safer then going all out to get the same time on a 600 riding it closer to the edge? (Just curious)

I agree with you on the Mid OH. The 1000 is a handful in the 7-11 section with all that power (I had more air over wheelie hill going 2 seconds slower on the 1000 then I ever had on the 600 because of power but still 2 seconds slower). And yes a lot riders (racers and street) are faster on 600s then on 1000s (includes expert racers) as the reason Lizard states the Control the 1000 requires is that much more refined.

I feel safer on the street on a 1000 because I am riding more lazy with the gas and can still have the same feel. I really hope to get a 06/07 to race this year to get a feel for the newer 600s at pace as I have only been on my 03 600.

I know I am not skilled enough to feel much of a difference in handling between the 6 and 1k, but hopefully I can develop it.

I'd say that it really depends. Too many guys ride above an beyond their ability that no matter if they were lazy on a 1000 or trying to push a 600, it is pretty much the same - they can't really do it and be safe or understand what is going on enough to really judge.

That being said, a guy like you - yes. It will be easier. It was kinda the point I was making about the MX bikes...

Take Drew and I. If we were riding MX, Drew is a better MX rider. If I were to ride a 450 and he on his 250, I'd probably be much closer to him due to me being able to not ride as hard. I'm still above my ability, but I can make up for the lack of with a little extra juice.

Now, to ride a 250 well, I am not skilled enough. I cannot lug the motor, I cannot use a higher gear and get away with it. Etc.

I think you can be lazy and ride as fast as a guy on a 600 going hard. On the street. Even on the track to a degree. Drew knows this - how many times was a guy like Etter on his built 1000 hard to get around because his power down the straight made up a huge difference? I had to Banzai him on the brakes JUST to make up that distance to get back on his rear wheel in 7. He's a good rider and I could pass him out of 8, into 10, out of the Valley into the Carousel, etc., but he'd clobber me back on the front straight or at worse... Get me at the middle of the back straight and I'd have to work hard again. It was never ending with a good rider on a Giggy 1K...

But, handling is what seperated us. I could gain and pass in the turns. Eventually, I'd get far enough ahead over a few laps that I could put him back enough that he'd pass at teh end of teh straight, but he couldn't match teh brakes and turn in of 7...

You get the idea...

[Chrisoh]

Yep sounds about right.

Kind of like my battle with Peters at Nelson in May for the Novice A superbike Win.

I just about hit him every lap into 13. Pull up underneath and even at the exit of 13 but see him wheelie a bit over that litte rise on the front and back at it again. I was hoping I could make a pass into 4 and try and get some distance and maybe do a slow time around the carosel get him down in the power at exit while I got run. I think if I could have been infront of him into the carosel, I could have been close enough into 12 to make pass there and open a gap through 13 and lead onto the front. then a pass in 1 and open up enough to stay in front out of 3.

But who knows. Had I ran the same times I ran in May I would have smoked him, but he dropped the same 2 seconds I did.

[twincharge7]

Just remember, Dweezel, you're a big muscular guy...3x bigger than me. you've to get 750 before going 600. 1000cc bike will require a lot of precise skill to control it or just buy Johnny Mac's repsol and you're all set. he he he Johnny's bike turns in A LOT smoother than mine. Hw about supercharged 600cc bike instead?

[Moto-Brian]

This is a good example of why a liter bike may work better. Of course, you can easily change the spring rates of a 600 and 750 to accomodate the weight difference. Yes, if you are pushing 300 lbs, a 600 is gonna suck. Just tooling around town would really suck even at slow speeds where handling means nothing really...

Again, it is not really a power deal, but on a liter bike, low end grunt can be better used if you are a bit larger in stature...

Otherwise, a 750 is a great choice as stated before...

[Dweezel]

yeah, I'm 6' 2" and without gear weigh about 245-250

[twincharge7]

yeah, I'm 6' 2" and without gear weigh about 245-250

Oh boy, I thought you're 345-350

[420gsxr1000]

yeah, I'm 6' 2" and without gear weigh about 245-250

gsxr 750 all day!!!!! maybe a 1000

[NinjaNick]

Dweezel, I'm 6'2 265 but ass naked after a good shit in the morning and I'm getting a liter bike in '08 brother. It's all good. GO LITER IN '08!

[redkow97]

so what you're all saying is that a bigger bike allows you to be lazier, and can thus degrade your riding skills?

sweet. I'm gonna be faster than everyone on here some day! ...except the guy with the 250.

**sarcasm. Please don't debate my insolence.** (i will be shopping for a track only(?) 600 as soon as my student loans are paid off)

[flounder]

so what you're all saying is that a bigger bike allows you to be lazier, and can thus degrade your riding skills?

sweet. I'm gonna be faster than everyone on here some day! ...except the guy with the 250.

**sarcasm. Please don't debate my insolence.** (i will be shopping for a track only(?) 600 as soon as my student loans are paid off)

I owe boatloads in student loans.. they are cheap interest rates and therefore, Im having fun with the bikes now while I can.

[Dweezel]

Yeah, so I think what I'm gonna do is pick up the liter bike for the street, then try to find a decent 01-03 GSXR-600 and make a track bike out of it.

[Chrisoh]

You may be able to find a decent 600 race bike that model year cheap and don't have to worry about setting it up.

[flounder]

hell chris.. .sell him your 600.. werent you thinking about getting a new one anyway?

[Moto-Brian]

Don't forget people - I have a 2005 750 that is 100% set-up for $6500 (bike only with a set of rains)...

[Chrisoh]

600 will be gone Sunday..

now second job for newer 600..

[twincharge7]

Yeah, so I think what I'm gonna do is pick up the liter bike for the street, then try to find a decent 01-03 GSXR-600 and make a track bike out of it.

can't wait to see it! get it in the winter!!

if you're looking for an R1, let me know. I found a few awesome deals from the R1 forum

[Dweezel]

can't wait to see it! get it in the winter!!

if you're looking for an R1, let me know. I found a few awesome deals from the R1 forum

Heh, no thanks, No R1 for me, I've actually talked one of my two friends who have R1's into getting Gixxers, I have an idea that if Jim had some extra cash he'd be getting one as well as Matt and I, Especially since they've got Black/Black now like his "Raven" R1 (you met both of them on the Columbus/zainsville trip, Matt has the blue/polished frame '99 R1, Jim has the Black/Black '05[?] R1) Matt and I should be picking the new bikes up in March. No one around here has anything even related to sport bikes anymore. Say they'll be getting them in in march.

Any place to get a good deal on Two GSX-R 1000's, Black/Black, we'll have ~30% downpayments too.

[twincharge7]

Heh, no thanks, No R1 for me, I've actually talked one of my two friends who have R1's into getting Gixxers, I have an idea that if Jim had some extra cash he'd be getting one as well as Matt and I, Especially since they've got Black/Black now like his "Raven" R1 (you met both of them on the Columbus/zainsville trip, Matt has the blue/polished frame '99 R1, Jim has the Black/Black '05[?] R1) Matt and I should be picking the new bikes up in March. No one around here has anything even related to sport bikes anymore. Say they'll be getting them in in march.

Any place to get a good deal on Two GSX-R 1000's, Black/Black, we'll have ~30% downpayments too.

well...I just have to change my bike to a gsx-r so we all have a matching bike