1999 Buell X1 Sputtering, Cutting in and Out, Running Rough, Poor Idle -- Ideas?

[Disclaimer]

I was in Mansfield today visiting the folks and my ol' mans Buell has been acting up for awhile. It's a 1999 X1 Lightning with 4092 miles on it.

Symptoms:

- Rough idle (assuming it idles, most of the time it dies after a few seconds)

- Sputters / spits / coughs during operation

- Won't get above 4k rpm no matter how hard I wrench the throttle

- Basically runs like crap under any load

Note: We had the airbox off during these tests and it makes a horrendous chuffing / popping sound when getting in/out of the throttle. Is there something about those airboxes that they need to run restricted? ie. not open to the air?

Things we've checked -

*My brother told me he cleaned the spark plugs and plug wires have been checked

*Removed the fuel tank and checked the fuel pump resistance (approx. 2.6 ohms, seems normal? Should be pulling 3A @ 14V -- 2.6ohms makes it close, so it's about half the resistance it should be). I did note that the fuel pump sounds odd when it primes itself before the bike starts.

*Resistance of both fuel injectors = 13.6 ohms

*TPS sensor resistance from 800 ohm to 2.1 kohm

*Replaced fuel in fuel tank with some VP Blue my dad had lying around (bad gas ruled out)

*Fuel filter OK

*Held the Infrared Temp gun to both headers about the same distance from the exhaust (near the head) and they read about the same temp (260*), so we ruled out "single cylinder operation"

I still think it's the fuel pump, or maybe the engine temp sensor. I took it for a ride down the driveway and back (approx 1/2 mile) and it finally threw some codes. Put a Jumper on the diagnostic port... threw blink codes 11 (TPS sensor), 13 (O2 sensor), and 33 (Fuel Pump).

My ol' man says he might just bite the bullet and drop it off at Hales HD to have it fixed (This, coming from the same guy who works on CBXs, can sync 6 carbs and work on those massive valvetrains) . He's just getting frustrated he bought American and is now regretting it.

I'd like to think we can avoid the dealership...Any ideas? TIA ORDN crew.

Edited August 16, 2010 by JRMMiii

[NINJA14]

buells, spend more time working on them then riding them

[Tpoppa]

Post this on the Old School Buell section of Badweb. I'll bet you have a diagnosis within a couple hours.

[Disclaimer]

Tony -- you dont' happen to be able to cross-post it over there? I started to, but thought better of it. I didn't think signing up for another forum account to post one thing, get my answer and leave would be prudent, esp. with all the information they want.

I searched on there, and they seem to think maybe it's the O2, TPS, or fuel filter -- which we've tested. I think I might suggest my dad to remove the O2 sensor and see how it runs, of course he'll have to stare at the Check engine light.

Maybe it is the filter after all? I dunno.

I appreciate the PMs though from others offering help. It just sucks because it's not like I can go home and work on this bike to test out some new suggestions, it's 65 miles away at my folks house.

[Tpoppa]

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/47623/588236.html?1282242889

btw, I have an X1 Service Manual in pdf.

[Disclaimer]

I have that same manual

Seems they want to bone you into getting the "Scanalyzer" tool into doing anything regarding diagnosing FI issues.

And at the opening line. Thanks for cross posting if for me though... I'll keep an eye on it

[Tpoppa]

TPS reset and check your timing.

[skrewloose]

I remember Tom had this and they had to replace the chip in it...

[Tpoppa]

I remember Tom had this and they had to replace the chip in it...

You sure he wasn't lyin' ?

[SAMBUSA]

I thought Buells always ran rough

[Tpoppa]

JRMMiii

As mentioned above I would check the timing and reset the TPS.

...but, any chance the plug wires got switched? I know someone that did this on a GS1100, and the symptoms were EXACTLY what you are decribing. It's basically the same feeling as really f'd up timing.

[Disclaimer]

I'm at a loss on how to reset the TPS though w/o that Scan tool. The service manual says "Use the Scan tool to...."

But I've forwarded the links to this thread and the badweb thread to my dad for him to peruse.

[Tpoppa]

I have the software and cable to reset the TPS on XBs. Apparently, it works on the X1 too...news to me.

[Disclaimer]

Where did you get it from? I bet my dad would be willing to purchase it, if it's reasonably priced.

[Tpoppa]

Dave @ http://www.ohiosportbike.com

knows more about Buells than most HD dealers. I believe he has the cables and may have the software too.

If you can get it to me, I can reset the TPS.

[Kritz]

Have you checked the main ground wire?

[eric_mil]

Hey Guy, I see this post is from 5-6 years ago but I'm having the same exact symptoms with my Buell X1 now. I was wondering if you ever figured out what the issue was. I have been jumping through hoops trying to figure this one out and any help would be greatly appreciated. My email is ebm5046@gmail.com. Thanks, Eric

[Disclaimer]

The resolution turned out to be a new O2 sensor.

[Disclaimer]

Or not.

 

My dad got confused, and after talking to him, it was on the intake side of the engine -- I think it was the IAT (intake air temp) sensor that was replaced.  It still doesn't idle right, but it's at least rideable now.

[eric_mil]

Thanks to Disclaimer's help almost 6 years later, I was able to figure out the issue with my X1! For those of you that may find this post looking for an answer like I was, try this repair first. Here is what I found.. I just recently got the bike and this just started happening when the weather got colder here in TX. My X1 has an aftermarket K&N filter with short ram air intake tube. The issue with the tube though is it doesn't have a hole for the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor, so the previous owner zip tied the IAT to the frame. And since there is no Mass Airflow sensor, this input is very important that it's accurate. With it zip tied to the frame, it was seeing ambient temp which is much lower than intake temp when it's freezing outside, especially at idle. So, I put a cloth over the sensor and held it in my hand to warm it up and after about a minute the ECM started to adjust everything back to normal and my bike ran great! As soon as I took my hand off and it started to change temperature again, it started to run crappy again but still much better than it was IF it even stayed running. It may be that the sensor is faulty too like in Disclaimer's case, so I am buying the stock intake tube with the bung for the IAT and using the K&N filter with a new IAT sensor. Also, if you look at the Forcewinder intake kit, it still utilizes the IAT sensor in the actual intake, so they knew what they were doing but it's $350 so I will make my own version for now.

[eric_mil]

Thanks to Disclaimer's help almost 6 years later, I was able to figure out the issue with my X1! For those of you that may find this post looking for an answer like I was, try this repair first. Here is what I found.. I just recently got the bike and this just started happening when the weather got colder here in TX. My X1 has an aftermarket K&N filter with short ram air intake tube. The issue with the tube though is it doesn't have a hole for the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor, so the previous owner zip tied the IAT to the frame. And since there is no Mass Airflow sensor, this input is very important that it's accurate. With it zip tied to the frame, it was seeing ambient temp which is much lower than intake temp when it's freezing outside, especially at idle. So, I put a cloth over the sensor and held it in my hand to warm it up and after about a minute the ECM started to adjust everything back to normal and my bike ran great! As soon as I took my hand off and it started to change temperature again, it started to run crappy again but still much better than it was IF it even stayed running. It may be that the sensor is faulty too like in Disclaimer's case, so I am buying the stock intake tube with the bung for the IAT and using the K&N filter with a new IAT sensor. Also, if you look at the Forcewinder intake kit, it still utilizes the IAT sensor in the actual intake, so they knew what they were doing but it's $350 so I will make my own version for now.

 

The short ram intake tube that was installed on my bike was made for the carbureted engines which didn't have IAT sensors. If you run into this problem, here's the cheaper alternative I was talking about with the stock air intake tube.

 

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=next&topic=47623&page=455522

[eric_mil]

UPDATE: Well, after getting the stock tube and a new IAT sensor, the issue still isn't fixed. I'm not sure what I did to get the bike running normally for a few minutes but it seemed like heating up the IAT sensor (telling the engine the air was warmer) made it run normally. Maybe it was just a coincidence. This is where I'm at.. So far I've replaced the fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator, in line fuel filter, spark plugs, fuel injector orings, intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, vacuum cap on the throttle body, O2 sensor, IAT sensor, and I already reset the TPS through my limited use ECM Spy. I'm replacing the TPS next to see what that does since I see other Buell owners with similar issues with a bad TPS. Could also be the engine temp sensor in the cylinder head or maybe a bad injector but both injectors activate normally through ECM Spy. I will update this post again when I figure it out.

[Disclaimer]

Even with the new IAT, my old man's bike never quite idled properly either.

I think you're on the right track with investigating the engine temp sensor. If you're sure the injectors are firing correctly and you're sure you have good spark plugs, you could triple check with an infrared non contact thermometer on each pipe just to be sure you have ignition from both cylinders.

Aside from that, if the TPS doesn't fix it, then I'd think it'd be a fuel mapping issue. I'm not sure if its a simple 2D map or 3D map, but if ECMSpy can adjust it, you may want to look at the inputs and the table map. If not, my next suggestion would be to piggyback a PowerCommander on it and let it work its magic.

I know my dads 99 did go back into the dealer for an ECU reflash which apparently had to do with the fuel mapping, but I don't have much detailed information on that.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Chuck Clay]

I didn't read the whole thread.......but I worked on a lot of these tube frame Buell at dealership for 7 years before working for myself.

 

2 things that are important on this are....1) proper TPS adjustment 2) proper cam sensor adjustment......these older tube frame Buells are very finicky!

 

I don't think you'll find a Harley dealership that will be willing to touch one.....

Edited January 20, 2016 by Chuck Clay