Drink-driver jailed for LIFE in the U.S. after clocking up his ninth offence

[Steve Butters]

I give up. You just don't get it.

Nobody is forcibly putting the alcohol down their throats. Therefore, they do not HAVE to drink.

It's that easy.

IDGAF what "modern science" says, nobody is doubting that alcohol is addictive. Nobody is forcing it. Alcoholics are tied down with alcohol IVs ran into them. They use their own free will to pick up a beer, open it up, drink it, and then blame it on a disease because they can't face the fact that they lack the willpower to actually quit drinking.

[cg2112]

I give up. You just don't get it.

Nobody is forcibly putting the alcohol down their throats. Therefore, they do not HAVE to drink.

It's that easy.

IDGAF what "modern science" says, nobody is doubting that alcohol is addictive. Nobody is forcing it. Alcoholics are tied down with alcohol IVs ran into them. They use their own free will to pick up a beer, open it up, drink it, and then blame it on a disease because they can't face the fact that they lack the willpower to actually quit drinking.

Yes, it's clear that you don't care what modern medicine says.

What I think you aren't getting is that alcohol is a legal, generally safe drug when used in moderation. People don't want to become alcoholics, and they don't try to become alcoholics. Some people drink every day and do not become drunks. Some people drink once a month, and do.

I do get it, and I've lived it. It's one of the few things I can discuss and actually know what I'm talking about.

[cg2112]

But it doesn't really matter if we agree on this.

We're both Rush fans, which is awesome. And I'm pretty sure that we both agree that this guy should be locked up for a long time.

[Steve Butters]

OK glad we're on the same page. Alcoholics drink at gunpoint.

Thanks for clearing it up for me man, I feel so enlightened.

and im not a rush fan, but yes i agree he needs locked up for a very long time

[jblosser]

Some people can quit drinking alcohol cold turkey, for them it's "just that easy". I did, almost 6 and half years ago.

For others, it's not that easy. There are physical and psychological factors in play here. Ever seen someone addicted to alcohol that had "the shakes" in the morning? Are they shaking on purpose? No, their body is reacting to its desire for more alcohol.

Can alcoholism be "cured"? No, it's a chronic disease, meaning once you're an alcoholic, you're one until the day you die. You might be a sober alcoholic, but you're an alcoholic nonetheless.

The turn this thread has taken is silly. Alcoholism is a disease, whether you think it is or not. The National Institutes of Health, The Mayo Clinic, and anywhere else you bother to look will tell you it is. Perhaps you think it isn't a disease because unlike cancer (for instance, or MS, or Alzheimers, or...), you can <sometimes> stop the progression of the symptoms on your own, without any outside interdiction. Can't quit cancer on your own, unfortunately. I'll give you that.

Maybe if we said this 9 times (caught) drunk driver has a "problem", and needs help with his "problem", you'd be better with that description?

Bottom line, Mr. 9 times has a problem with alcohol, and he obviously isn't going to involuntarily quit cold turkey. Alcoholism is certainly to blame here, but more to blame is Mr. 9 times and his family and friends, who certainly all saw the symptons, and no one did enough (or anything) to help him. Maybe jail will help - he'll be drinking less.

Edited August 17, 2010 by jblosser
spel chek

[cg2112]

OK glad we're on the same page. Alcoholics drink at gunpoint.

Thanks for clearing it up for me man, I feel so enlightened.

and im not a rush fan, but yes i agree he needs locked up for a very long time

Sorry, I've never seen someone with "2112" in a handle and not be a Rush fan.

No one is saying that alcoholics drink at gun point. But for some, getting a buzz is to feel normal, like many compulsions. And for even some, particularly alcoholics who have progressed in the disease, not drinking can be dangerous, even fatal.

[Steve Butters]

guys i have crackism

dont be alarmed when i steal your catalytic converters for crack money, i need it to survive.

[Disclaimer]

I dunno... this alcohol thing must be pretty serious when you TELL people about OVI checkpoints and still net 5 DUIs.

http://tmcnews.blogspot.com/2010/08/ovi-checkpoint-nets-7-arrests.html

That, or people are dumb.... seriously, dumb.

[jblosser]

The people who get busted for DUI at publicized checkpoints have "stupid" disease.

[SAMBUSA]

I dont buy alcoholism as being a disease. Once upon a time, long before anyone here knew me I drank ALOT. I would joke that I was a drunk, not an alcoholic because alcoholics admit they have a problem and go to class. I would drink every chance I got. One day I decided I didn't want to live that life anymore. I still drink but very rarely. Alcohol is a choice, not a disease.

[cg2112]

I dont buy alcoholism as being a disease. Once upon a time, long before anyone here knew me I drank ALOT. I would joke that I was a drunk, not an alcoholic because alcoholics admit they have a problem and go to class. I would drink every chance I got. One day I decided I didn't want to live that life anymore. I still drink but very rarely. Alcohol is a choice, not a disease.

Alcoholics usually don't admit they have a problem.

Drinking a lot doesn't make someone an alcoholic, it's not defined by the frequency or quantity with which you drink. If you drank every day and then just stopped because you didn't want to drink anymore, you weren't an alcoholic. An alcoholic can't stop wanting to drink. That's what makes them alcoholics.

Whether you buy it or not, it's still a disease.

[SAMBUSA]

Alcoholics usually don't admit they have a problem.

Drinking a lot doesn't make someone an alcoholic, it's not defined by the frequency or quantity with which you drink. If you drank every day and then just stopped because you didn't want to drink anymore, you weren't an alcoholic. An alcoholic can't stop wanting to drink. That's what makes them alcoholics.

Whether you buy it or not, it's still a disease.

I didn't say I was an alcoholic. I was a drunk because that's what I was ALL THE TIME

[Steve Butters]

Alcoholics usually don't admit they have a problem.

Drinking a lot doesn't make someone an alcoholic, it's not defined by the frequency or quantity with which you drink. If you drank every day and then just stopped because you didn't want to drink anymore, you weren't an alcoholic. An alcoholic can't stop wanting to drink. That's what makes them alcoholics.

Whether you buy it or not, it's still a disease.

You must be an alcoholic.

[dorifto240]

I dont buy alcoholism as being a disease. Once upon a time, long before anyone here knew me I drank ALOT. I would joke that I was a drunk, not an alcoholic because alcoholics admit they have a problem and go to class. I would drink every chance I got. One day I decided I didn't want to live that life anymore. I still drink but very rarely. Alcohol is a choice, not a disease.

That just means you weren't genetically pre-disposed to alcoholism. They've started to identify that certain people are hard-wired to be easily addicted. It doesn't matter what they're addicted to, they just are addicted to it.

Coffee, cigarettes, food, drugs almost anything that creates an endorphine rush for them is potentially addicting.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040526/researchers-identify-alcoholism-gene

Does this lessen their personal responsibility? No of course not. That's where the line is drawn between alcoholism and cancer. It is a choice to not try and get help. So their actions aren't excused or pardoned, but merely understood better.

It would be wise to have some empathy and compassion for alcoholics and others in similar situations. As John Wesley stated "there but for the grace of God, go I."

[Steve Butters]

addiction to anything is not a disease in my book.

just put the shit down.

[SAMBUSA]

That just means you weren't genetically pre-disposed to alcoholism. They've started to identify that certain people are hard-wired to be easily addicted. It doesn't matter what they're addicted to, they just are addicted to it.

Coffee, cigarettes, food, drugs almost anything that creates an endorphine rush for them is potentially addicting.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040526/researchers-identify-alcoholism-gene

Does this lessen their personal responsibility? No of course not. That's where the line is drawn between alcoholism and cancer. It is a choice to not try and get help. So their actions aren't excused or pardoned, but merely understood better.

It would be wise to have some empathy and compassion for alcoholics and others in similar situations. As John Wesley stated "there but for the grace of God, go I."

So if I were to buy that people are genetically blah blah to being addicted to blah blah then why am I addicted to tobacco but not alcohol?

And you REALLY dont want to make this in to a religious debate, you'd lose

[dorifto240]

addiction to anything is not a disease in my book.

just put the shit down.

Go do heroin or crystal meth for a year, and then try to "put the shit down."

[Steve Butters]

That just means you weren't genetically pre-disposed to alcoholism. They've started to identify that certain people are hard-wired to be easily addicted. It doesn't matter what they're addicted to, they just are addicted to it.

Coffee, cigarettes, food, drugs almost anything that creates an endorphine rush for them is potentially addicting.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040526/researchers-identify-alcoholism-gene

Does this lessen their personal responsibility? No of course not. That's where the line is drawn between alcoholism and cancer. It is a choice to not try and get help. So their actions aren't excused or pardoned, but merely understood better.

It would be wise to have some empathy and compassion for alcoholics and others in similar situations. As John Wesley stated "there but for the grace of God, go I."

Straight from your article, "Some 30% to 70% of alcoholics are reported to suffer from anxiety and depression," Pandey says in a news release. "Drinking is a way for these individuals to self-medicate."

• Rats deficient in the CREB protein drank about 50% more alcohol than normal rats. They also showed more anxiety-like behavior in a maze test.
  
• These rats also showed a higher preference for alcohol over water compared with normal rats; yet they had similar preferences for sugar water -- indicating that the alcohol consumption was not related to taste preferences.
  
• These rats also displayed more anxiety than normal mice, which decreased when drinking alcohol. The anxiety-reducing effect of alcohol was not as great in the normal rats.
  
• Alcoholic rats had higher levels of the CREB protein in the central amygdala.
  

These results indicate that the CREB or alcoholism gene is "crucial" to the anxiety relief that triggers alcohol addiction, Pandey writes.

The alcohol is not the problem at all according to your article.

There is a gene that some people have that makes them more prone to anxiety and depression disorders. The alcohol is their way of dealing with their problems.

They are using alcohol as a way to fix their emotional problems, that does not make the alcohol itself, part of the disease.

The alcohol is a choice. Those people need to find different outlets to treat their emotional disorders.

[jeremygsxr]

tbutera, you obviously know very little about the subject of addiction. For many people it's just doesn't work to say "I'm not doing it anymore."

Personally, it took a doctor to tell me I was going to die of liver failure at 30 years of age to quit drinking. I wasn't an alcoholic that had to have a beer when I woke up, but I drank every day, it was just a part of my daily schedule. Get up, go to work, get off, go get beer, then go wherever I ended up. The times when I thought to myself I'm quiting this shit, would just lead to a binger. I've been to rehab more than once, a few times because of the courts, and once on my own.

I am a really strong willed person, but some things are not just a matter of mind over matter.

Carry on.

[Steve Butters]

Go do heroin or crystal meth for a year, and then try to "put the shit down."

nobody said it was easy, but that it takes willpower

youre telling me methism and heroinism are also medical diseases and the person affected has no other option but to be a junkie the rest of their life?? please.

[Steve Butters]

tbutera, you obviously know very little about the subject of addiction. For many people it's just doesn't work to say "I'm not doing it anymore."

Personally, it took a doctor to tell me I was going to die of liver failure at 30 years of age to quit drinking. I wasn't an alcoholic that had to have a beer when I woke up, but I drank every day, it was just a part of my daily schedule. Get up, go to work, get off, go get beer, then go wherever I ended up. The times when I thought to myself I'm quiting this shit, would just lead to a binger. I've been to rehab more than once, a few times because of the courts, and once on my own.

I am a really strong willed person, but some things are not just a matter of mind over matter.

Carry on.

But you quit, didn't you?

Exactly.

[SAMBUSA]

But you quit, didn't you?

Exactly.

I had brain cancer for a little bit but decided it wasn't for me so I quit having it.

[dorifto240]

nobody said it was easy, but that it takes willpower

youre telling me methism and heroinism are also medical diseases and the person affected has no other option but to be a junkie the rest of their life?? please.

I'm telling you that addiction is much more complex than what you think. And yes being addicted to drugs or alcohol or cigarettes is a medical disease. In the same sense that depression, chronic fatigue, and other similar psychological diseases are diseases.

I'm not saying it, but the American Medical Association and the Journal of Psychology and other doctors and medical professions are saying it.

[Steve Butters]

I had brain cancer for a little bit but decided it wasn't for me so I quit having it.

lmfao.

thats how i feel about this entire thread.

i feel like im banging my head against a brick wall.

[dorifto240]

i feel like im banging my head against a brick wall.

Yeah science and facts can do that