homewrecker Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3652I realize this is not a political website but thought a few might be interested in this. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Anyone that wants that is rediculous. "NO" for universal healthcare.Mitt Romney in 2008!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homewrecker Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Right on ninja. I would prefer thompson but that doesn't seem to be a possibility so mitt is my second choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v65rider Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yep going to have to go with Romney as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrnurse Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Just wondering if any have you ever considered (or realized) that we already have a form of universal healthcare; it's called Medicare. I'm pretty sure you all expect to receive your benefits when you turn 65 (or 67 depending on your age now), don't you?Just being the devil's advocate here. I'm not really sure where I stand on universal healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 It's not sufficient for any of us when we become a patient. Just an example: You will have to wait months at times just to get help if you need it. Chances are it will be too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homewrecker Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 actually no! I don't expect to receive medicare. I will obtain my own insurance through my retirement benefits because medicare sucks. As does anything the gov. has control over. Name three good things the gov. does effectively. I can only list bad things. They are so ineffective at everything they do. Why in the hell would I trust them with something as important as my health. And besides that this would be the biggest push towards socialism (ie. communism) since the "new deal". Last I checked this was America, a capitolist nation not a socialist nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrnurse Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Psst...you probably won't have retirement benefits through your company by the time you get to retirement age, or at least I don't count on it. Remember how people used to get pensions through their companies when they retired and it wasn't necessary to start your own retirement through personal investments? At the current rate of the rising cost of healthcare, our companies won't be able to afford to insure us for life anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homewrecker Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I always hear about the rising cost of healthcare. I only see the rising cost of insurance though. I went without insurance for a while and paid for a major surgery for my 1 yr. old daughter. It was an experimental surgery only 3 have been performed in the u.s. so you figure out what that must have cost. And yet I am still against universal healthcare. That should say something to those that are on the fence about this subject. But in reality those that say they aren't sure about something really mean they are strong advocates these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homewrecker Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Medicare=BADSocial Security=BADSocialism=BADI hate the fact that the government is taking money from me that I will never be able to utilize. By the time I can access the money I'll damn near be dead. Why can't I decide what to do with my own money? Am I too stupid to know what's best for me? Do I need a bunch of politicians to tell me how to spend my own money? I don't think so. I wouldn't even mind a voluntary health care system and retirement program. Then at least I would have the choice to enroll or not. This lack of freedom of choice really irks me and the fact that so many people want to live in a socialist society drives me crazy. This isn't Canada and this isn't The Soviet Union. This is The United States of America. We are Capitalists. We are free men and women. If you want to live with Socialism start trucking your Commie ass due north! Anybody who doesn't have their OWN retirement account set up already (i.e. savings account) is a damned fool. Go ahead' date=' rely on big brother. Give me a call and let me know how that works out for you. Oh, and don't get me started on health insurance. Another fucking money scam. My wife and I did the math on last years insurance expenses and we would have saved money if we had paid out of pocket instead of using health insurance. Now we have one of these...[url']http://www.health--savings--accounts.com/I hate Socialism, Communism and 'Government save me' mentality. This post isn't directed at any one person on this forum. It is just my opinion and feelings on the matter. I don't advocate anyone coming out from the hole they are hiding in to make their country better than it is. Just sit tight and let the good ol' politicians take care of it for you. God bless apathy.It's good to know that there are others out there with the same set of views and principals as myself. If only everyone else would quit paying attention to the mainstream media or air america and find real sources for their news we would have a few more with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrnurse Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 It's good to know that there are others out there with the same set of views and principals as myself. If only everyone else would quit paying attention to the mainstream media or air america and find real sources for their news we would have a few more with us.I think your thread started with a link to an article from the mainstream media.Seriously though, lots of people have "opinions" based on a line or two that they read in articles put out by the media which is in itself a liberal entity. I took an entire class on health care policy and have a pretty decent textbook if you want to actually take the time to educate yourself on our current system and problems. Here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Health-Student-Lecture-Companion/dp/0763739294/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200953882&sr=8-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrnurse Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the rising cost of health care can be attributed to cost sharing. That means that the big fat fatty that works with me who develops diabetes and heart disease pays the same premium as me even though I exercise 4-5 days a week and have no health problems. Pisses me off, I don't know about you. All I know is that our health care system sucks. Maybe Isaac's Papa is on the right track with HSA's but the fact of the matter is is that the general public is uneducated and too stupid to understand the concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homewrecker Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the rising cost of health care can be attributed to cost sharing. That means that the big fat fatty that works with me who develops diabetes and heart disease pays the same premium as me even though I exercise 4-5 days a week and have no health problems. Pisses me off, I don't know about you. All I know is that our health care system sucks. Maybe Isaac's Papa is on the right track with HSA's but the fact of the matter is is that the general public is uneducated and too stupid to understand the concept.okay your making alittle more sense now. I beleive the answer is in free market solutions not the government stepping in. I agree that it is a very complicated issue that most people don't understand and just want an easy fix to. There are better solutions to most problems in this country than government involvement. With health accounts people would be free to shop around for their healthcare needs and find the best price and service for their needs. Much like shopping for any other major purchase in this country. It would force doctors to compete on pricing and services performed. That is the right direction to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessPratt Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I always hear about the rising cost of healthcare. I only see the rising cost of insurance though. I went without insurance for a while and paid for a major surgery for my 1 yr. old daughter. It was an experimental surgery only 3 have been performed in the u.s. so you figure out what that must have cost. And yet I am still against universal healthcare. That should say something to those that are on the fence about this subject. But in reality those that say they aren't sure about something really mean they are strong advocates these days.Did you ask if the surgeons would be willing to take a lesser amount due to self pay? I've taken the policy and politics course in grad school BUT I'm not getting into that debate. I work at the James and I know that if our patients are self pay they get a 30% discount. I know that doesn't seem like much but when a treatment for colon cancer costs about 300K that makes a big difference. Also what we think is poverty might be quite a different story to the hospital. My aunt just went through 3 rounds of chemo b/f she died at age 47 in september. She was a "stay at home mom" and my uncle only made 12/hr. That is obviously above poverty limits but they qualified for medicaid and got everything paid for. Plus, everything was retroactive. Thank God b/c the bill from the James was well over 600K with all the surgeries, chemo, etc. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jermattak Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 check this out..i have a few friends on it, they say its awesome. They just say whats wrong, they get ALL the money they need. they even send out a newsletter to tell all the members who is in the hospital.http://www.chministries.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Have any of you watched Sicko? While you have to take everything Micheal Moore puts out with a grain of salt due to the spin, but there are some issues that social medicine addresses that the free market can't. I don't know where I stand on social vs. free market healthcare, but I don't take solace in the fact that the free market incentive is to kill me off through NOT treating me so profits can be generated. Insurance isn't charity - they're in it to make money through cost sharing (as mentioned by gsxrnurse) and denial of disbursement. While insurance can never deny you treatment, they can refuse to cover the costs - so you're bankrupt after any type of medical disaster. Social medicine will fix some aspects of that part of the equation.On the other hand, the free market makes sense from some other aspects, like privacy and choice. I'm sure the optimal solution is some BALANCE of both aspects so people can choose privacy over cost, or some tiered progression thereof.But, since we have to deal with the system as it stands today, I think that forcing people to be more proactive in their health and choices is the best way to curtail these health issues. I believe, HSAs (again as mentioned above) and other high deductible health care plans will help with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MotoGP Tix Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 If you give people one less reason to strive for better things, theyll all to often live down to the circumstances..I bust my arse to get the things I have.. INCLUDING proper family planning and health insurance..Why do we just keep pandering down and down and down to people that dont want to work for what they got !PS who gives a flying flick if someone is fat, or smokes or any gawd dang thing else... GEEZ mind yer own back yard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benyen Soljax Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 And besides that this would be the biggest push towards socialism (ie. communism) since the "new deal". Last I checked this was America, a capitolist nation not a socialist nation.it really makes me sad to see ignorance like this today. if you actually knew about political systems you would realize a purely capitAlist nation would have as much chance coming to fruition as a purely communist government. there have been a slight few primitive peoples which have achieved a "commune" but neither form of pure government has had any play in modern world politics. socialism is the middle ground, and everyone uses some form of it today. even america. im not disagreeing with you, as i dont think many of the government controlled organizations are very effective at all, but to go and generalize everything is pointless, as all of these are drawn out and complicated matters.on a sidenote, if ron paul could get elected he wants nothing more than to get rid of many of the government orgs that are abusing taxpayer money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessPratt Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 PS who gives a flying flick if someone is fat, or smokes or any gawd dang thing else... GEEZ mind yer own back yardWell as a health care provider I can assure you that the more we mind our "own back yard" the more insurance premiums will indeed rise. Obesity, smoking, ETOH (alcohol consumption > 2 drinks/day), sedentary lifestyles, etc. are all CONTROLLABLE risk factors for an acute cardiac event which usually leads to congestive heart failure if it did not cause sudden death at onset. Some stats:Prevalance: estimated 13,200,000 in the USA 2001 (American Heart Association, 2004).Incidence: 1,200,000 per year, 100,000 per month, 23,076 per week, 3,287 per day, 136 per hour, 2 per minute, 0 per second. (new diagnosis).If we as Americans don't realize that this DOES indeed increase our insurance premiums we are being naive. In addition, to cardiac diseas I don't even want to discuss other diseases that some of these risk factors attribute to....lung cancer, diabetes, HTN (hypertension), COPD, etc. I get sick patients coming into the office and wanting me to prescribe a "pill" (quick fix) to their problems when they simply need to get on the tread mill and change thier lifestyle. All the meds they want have side effects ya know. Some of them can be devastating. You have to gauge benefit vs. risk. I understand smoking cessation is HARD!!! I smoked 2ppd for almost 8 years. I LOVED my marlboro mediums BUT I also love the fact that I can run 6 or 7 miles now and NOT get short of breath. My insurance premiums ARE lower b/c I'm considered a non smoker and b/c it's been 8 years since I quit I now have an extra 20 years to live (God forbide "something" unforseen happens...genetic anomalies, etc.). I know I am on a rant here but we can't allow ignorance to creep into our minds if we actually want to see change in America. We live in the greatest country in the world and I am always going to acknowledge that. One person CAN make a difference!!!!!Anyhoo, I pray I didn't upset anyone by this. Knowledge is power and the more we know the more we can be in control of our futures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Why do we just keep pandering down and down and down to people that dont want to work for what they got !+1 I'm sick of us taking care of leeches more and more as time goes by. They're so content with what the gov't provides them with, they have no desire to get a respectable life. It's fucking rediculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 +1 I'm sick of us taking care of leeches more and more as time goes by. They're so content with what the gov't provides them with, they have no desire to get a respectable life. It's fucking rediculous!If you really want to have fun go to the grocery store at the beginning of the month. It is amazing to see so many well dressed people with shopping carts stacked so high paying with wic / foodstamps or whatever they are called. I wish I could afford to eat as much steak as our "less fortunate citizens" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 If you really want to have fun go to the grocery store at the beginning of the month. It is amazing to see so many well dressed people with shopping carts stacked so high paying with wic / foodstamps or whatever they are called. I wish I could afford to eat as much steak as our "less fortunate citizens"I remember about 7-8 years ago going to Dave and Busters down in Cincy with a buddy of mine. I said to the bartender, "Damn it's crowded in here." He said, "Yeah, it's the beginning of the month, all the welfare people storm in here to waste their money." He told me to never come back until the last 2 weekends of each month and it'll be a better crowd. There were little welfare brats running everywhere playing games and shit. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY had any manners either. I was wanting to go postal after awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MotoGP Tix Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Well as a health care provider I can assure you that the more we mind our "own back yard" the more insurance premiums will indeed rise. Obesity, smoking, ETOH (alcohol consumption > 2 drinks/day), sedentary lifestyles, etc. are all CONTROLLABLE risk factors for an acute cardiac event which usually leads to congestive heart failure if it did not cause sudden death at onset. Some stats:Prevalance: estimated 13,200,000 in the USA 2001 (American Heart Association, 2004).Incidence: 1,200,000 per year, 100,000 per month, 23,076 per week, 3,287 per day, 136 per hour, 2 per minute, 0 per second. (new diagnosis).If we as Americans don't realize that this DOES indeed increase our insurance premiums we are being naive. In addition, to cardiac diseas I don't even want to discuss other diseases that some of these risk factors attribute to....lung cancer, diabetes, HTN (hypertension), COPD, etc. I get sick patients coming into the office and wanting me to prescribe a "pill" (quick fix) to their problems when they simply need to get on the tread mill and change thier lifestyle. All the meds they want have side effects ya know. Some of them can be devastating. You have to gauge benefit vs. risk. I understand smoking cessation is HARD!!! I smoked 2ppd for almost 8 years. I LOVED my marlboro mediums BUT I also love the fact that I can run 6 or 7 miles now and NOT get short of breath. My insurance premiums ARE lower b/c I'm considered a non smoker and b/c it's been 8 years since I quit I now have an extra 20 years to live (God forbide "something" unforseen happens...genetic anomalies, etc.). I know I am on a rant here but we can't allow ignorance to creep into our minds if we actually want to see change in America. We live in the greatest country in the world and I am always going to acknowledge that. One person CAN make a difference!!!!!Anyhoo, I pray I didn't upset anyone by this. Knowledge is power and the more we know the more we can be in control of our futures.I dont smoke or drink so I dont have a horse in the race so to speak..I also dont have kids .. So according to that logic, its not fair that I pay a higher percentage of my income than someone with kids towards helth insurance ( not to mention the tax write off's and expenses subsidizing kids in school etc etc ) , and how come it is always just KIDS as an option not PER KID.. 1 kid or six kids = same health insurance premiums...HAVING KIDS is a controllable risk factor also, ditto for riding a bike, or parachuting.. ALL HAIL the NAZI's with there nose over the fence..Jack Black put it GREAt in school or rock, so I LIKE TO EAT, IS THAT A CRIME !So the fug what if someone wants to get fat or smoke and die, or ride a bike hard and get paralyzed, or NOT wear a seat belt, or gawd forbid actually enjoy there lifes, without every soccer mom wanting to raise taxes on soda pop to keep Jimmy a little more skinny...Work, Raise good kids, obey ( most ) of the laws , pay your bills, other than that live it up !( The above rant is not pointed at anyone, I only know two people on here.. it is just a general statement ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Isn't it strange how seatbelts are the law, but we put our children on huge shitty buses with no seatbelts EVERYDAY! 2x! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benyen Soljax Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I believe what homewrecker meant to say was this used to be a Capitalist nation and is now a socialist nation. (yes' date=' I used a big 'C' for a reason. Individualism is morally superior to collectivism.) Free market society is the only way to be fair. I know some of you commies think the government is the good guy and would keep things fair but you are incorrect in your beliefs. I know what you are thinking... But isn't a system where everybody helps everybody the best thing? Sure!! It sounds great. So does Communism. But it never works. Do some research on socialized medicine and let me know how many Canadian citizens have private coverage because the government can't keep up. Also, find out how they have cut coverage to balance the budget. Socialism isn't the answer. Less taxes and freedom are the answers. My wife and I say all the time, "We need to give more." We already give more than we can afford. If the government would let me keep my earnings instead of stealing them we would be in a situation where we could give more. Our hands are tied by a socialist government that takes my hard earned money and gives it to someone else. In a free society will there be poor people? Yes. There will ALWAYS be poor people. The problem is the government ties the hands of those who could help by taking their money and pissing it away. In a communistic society the difference is EVERYBODY is poor. The government takes what you should make and keeps it. I am so tired of hearing about how great our government is. It makes me want to shoot someone. WE THE PEOPLE are the government. (or at least we used to be) The system is set up so we have control. Now we just sit around and let the politicians fuck us in the ass and take all of our money and relieve us of our freedoms. [/quote']our government has been socialist in SOME WAYS since day 1, period. you obviously didnt understand what i said either, or you wouldnt have responded with this elitist crap that is just as ignorant as the person you are trying to explain.not saying i agree with many of the current governmental extensions that plague our all-too-worn-out constitution, but seriously, learn a little about the ideals behind politics before spouting shit about "morally correct". we invented morals.I hate to say it but we get the government we deserve. Nobody cares and the country suffers from an epidemic of apathy. 'Let someone else do it. It's never going to change.' Well, keep thinking and talking like that and see where we are in 5 years.sounds like you have the apathy bug too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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