Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Rifleman's inserts are awesome. Pretty easy to install too. I did it on the zx10. Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 1/5 vs 1/4 isn't that huge a difference. Makes a difference, but not huge.You can use a stock R1 tube to get 1/5 throttle turn on a Suzuki. An R6 (06-08 and newer) will net 1/6 (shorter yet). All for about $14. For Suzuki guys at least...Stock everything is 1/4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 1/5 vs 1/4 isn't that huge a difference. Makes a difference, but not huge.It was a huge difference on the zx10. Made full throttle much more comfortable and easier. We should change your screen name to negative nancy. Read what others have to say if you don't believe me: http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 By the way, not to detract from Jeff's post - Free is a WAY better deal than even $9-$15 for a tube. Was just educating folks if this goes to someone quickly and they want a good alternative.1/5 is suggested for liter bike riders and 1/6 for everything else. Just a bit too much on a liter bike and tougher to get used to. Rewards if you have the patience, but 1/5 is going to be better - you just aren't going to feel a night and day difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 It was a huge difference on the zx10. Made full throttle much more comfortable and easier. We should change your screen name to negative nancy. Read what others have to say if you don't believe me: http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92608you should change his screen name to "cant catch a break" or "no good deed goes unpunished" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 It was a huge difference on the zx10. Made full throttle much more comfortable and easier. We should change your screen name to negative nancy. Read what others have to say if you don't believe me: http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92608Uh, huge is based on an opinion. ZX10r.net is like Gixxer.com... I've run a 1/5 and 1/6 on a GSXR that had a pile more HP than what you had. The difference was better for sure. Huge? Not so much. 1/6? Yes... Too much to a degree like I stated.The point is that a lot of guys do these lame mods and the placebo result is they think it is huge. Yes, no need to reposition the hand. Yes, easier to full throttle. However, if you are not a smooth rider, it can take time to adapt. If you want to get better on the gas, get better on the drive out which translate to better corner speed, which translates into better entrance into a corner... Point is that I am willing to bet that a guy with better throttle control can exit and go faster through a corner than a guy with lesser throttle control and a 1/5 or 1/6 throttle tube...Again, huge isn't a descriptor I would use. I'm not going to read what a bunch of Gixxer.com types are saying about it - I can only speak from real world experience. If that upsets you to think that MAYBE someone has more time with these types of changes and can say they are huge in difference, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Uh, huge is based on an opinion. ZX10r.net is like Gixxer.com... I've run a 1/5 and 1/6 on a GSXR that had a pile more HP than what you had. The difference was better for sure. Huge? Not so much. 1/6? Yes... Too much to a degree like I stated.The point is that a lot of guys do these lame mods and the placebo result is they think it is huge. Yes, no need to reposition the hand. Yes, easier to full throttle. However, if you are not a smooth rider, it can take time to adapt. If you want to get better on the gas, get better on the drive out which translate to better corner speed, which translates into better entrance into a corner... Point is that I am willing to bet that a guy with better throttle control can exit and go faster through a corner than a guy with lesser throttle control and a 1/5 or 1/6 throttle tube...Again, huge isn't a descriptor I would use. I'm not going to read what a bunch of Gixxer.com types are saying about it - I can only speak from real world experience. If that upsets you to think that MAYBE someone has more time with these types of changes and can say they are huge in difference, then so be it.Uhm, I'm just talking about comfort, not having to bend your wrist that extra bit. Made CT to WOT faster and much more comfortable on the wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 you should change his screen name to "cant catch a break" or "no good deed goes unpunished"Not sure what you mean? Catch what break? What deed do you mean? Just trying to educate folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Uhm, I'm just talking about comfort, not having to bend your wrist that extra bit. Made CT to WOT faster and much more comfortable on the wrist.Don't know about comfort. Can't see how that's an issue in terms of street riding as you aren't CT to FT as often as a track guy, but to each their own. I will say you have the upper hand on longer touring and riding than me so, I will take your word on that.Most others will want to do this mod for the difference in delivery from neutral throttle to FT... At that stage, it isn't huge, but effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YSR_Racer_99 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Don't know about comfort. Can't see how that's an issue in terms of street riding as you aren't CT to FT as often as a track guy, but to each their own. I will say you have the upper hand on longer touring and riding than me so, I will take your word on that.Most others will want to do this mod for the difference in delivery from neutral throttle to FT... At that stage, it isn't huge, but effective.Honestly, I had no idea track guys would even use such a thing. For actually riding, and for drag racing, it's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Honestly, I had no idea track guys would even use such a thing. For actually riding, and for drag racing, it's awesome.Just don't see the issue with street riding. 1/4 turn is more than enough. The idea behind a shorter throw is that you don't have to reposition your hand while going from neutral or CT to FT. 1/4 really isn't an issue with drag racing, either... Just position your hand further forward and pull. Pretty simple... I know our drag team guys had shorter throws, but again... Rider ability is going to win out.If a guy has a quicker reaction time than you, 1/5 vs a 1/4 isn't going to make the world of difference. May cover a MINIMAL amount of lack of ability on your part, but not enough to pull a win. Much more than a throttle difference will be the reason.For street, you just aren't pulling the throttle as much. I am leaning towards not buying that reasoning. Again, on the comfort, place the hand further forward. Hell, when we used to ride bikes with a really long pull (Take an ST1100 as an example), we would rotate the throttle housing forward so when pulling, it was the same amount, but the position was more comfy. You could do the same with the stock 1/4 the ZX10 has and accomplish the same thing. That extra little pull isn't enough for you to notice at street pace and cruising speeds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Just don't see the issue with street riding. 1/4 turn is more than enough. The idea behind a shorter throw is that you don't have to reposition your hand while going from neutral or CT to FT. 1/4 really isn't an issue with drag racing, either... Just position your hand further forward and pull. Pretty simple... I know our drag team guys had shorter throws, but again... Rider ability is going to win out.If a guy has a quicker reaction time than you, 1/5 vs a 1/4 isn't going to make the world of difference. May cover a MINIMAL amount of lack of ability on your part, but not enough to pull a win. Much more than a throttle difference will be the reason.For street, you just aren't pulling the throttle as much. I am leaning towards not buying that reasoning. Again, on the comfort, place the hand further forward. Hell, when we used to ride bikes with a really long pull (Take an ST1100 as an example), we would rotate the throttle housing forward so when pulling, it was the same amount, but the position was more comfy. You could do the same with the stock 1/4 the ZX10 has and accomplish the same thing. That extra little pull isn't enough for you to notice at street pace and cruising speeds...On the 04/05 ZX10, the throttle rotates 92 degrees stock. Rifleman's 1/5th insert reduces that to 72 degrees. Now you can sit there and say that isn't much difference, but it's huge no matter how you look at it. Nothing to do with skill, just physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Honestly, I had no idea track guys would even use such a thing. For actually riding, and for drag racing, it's awesome.Why wouldnt you think a track rider would use one? In racing (Track or Drag) they are helpful. In street riding they are really not needed and similar to wanting an exhaust or fender eliminator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Why wouldnt you think a track rider would use one? In racing (Track or Drag) they are helpful. In street riding they are really not needed and similar to wanting an exhaust or fender eliminator.Just never really heard of track day guys talking about it. For long trips it rocked. Less movement in the wrist equals less fatigue. Add the throttle rocker, and I'm golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Just never really heard of track day guys talking about it. For long trips it rocked. Less movement in the wrist equals less fatigue. Add the throttle rocker, and I'm golden.Im not saying you are wrong but what do you think the comparison between wrist movement fatigue vs wrist control/stability fatigue is since you have to be more careful with your movements with throttle control because its more sensitive. My guess is they are damn near identical thus the net result is 0 other then you can turn the throttle quicker. Dont forget that the goal is to get to WOT quicker and with less movement;..BUT you arent WOT on casual riding and therefore you would move your wrist less because you arent riding in the 10K+ rpm range.Either way, I will stick with my thoughts that track (Road/Drag) = Beneficial. Normal everyday riding = no real benefit other then its something you have "modded" that allows you to go faster/quicker and something to talk to noobs about at Quaker. Edited January 4, 2011 by flounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 On the 04/05 ZX10, the throttle rotates 92 degrees stock. Rifleman's 1/5th insert reduces that to 72 degrees. Now you can sit there and say that isn't much difference, but it's huge no matter how you look at it. Nothing to do with skill, just physics.Again, it isn't huge. Here's 72 degrees. You can see where 90 degrees (1/4 turn stock) would be... Can you tell a difference? Again... sure. But to call that a huge difference - especially for street riding as you never were drag racing on a serious level, it isn't going to be an asset nor noticeable. Like I said, moving your hand forward or rotating the housing forward is going to mask it well enough to be minimal...Uploaded with ImageShack.usI don't buy that it is a huge difference. On track, it helps. Slightly, but again... UNLESS you are good at throttle control and use of neutral throttle, it is a waste of money. You could spend more time on getting to be a better rider and gain FAR better results in lap times, reaction times and reducing fatigue than buying a 1/5 throttle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Just never really heard of track day guys talking about it. For long trips it rocked. Less movement in the wrist equals less fatigue. Add the throttle rocker, and I'm golden.Not to be a dick, but how often have you been to the track? To add to that, how many guys even know what the difference is?Again, long trips is going to be an issue based on where the wrist is. You're not at FT hardly at all. I can provide you an example of where Nick Ienatsch showed students where he went from CT to FT w/o hardly moving his wrist. Smoothness from finger and hand control had him accelerating the machine w/o really moving the wrist position. It's called throttle control...The point is that when riding on a long trip, you can rest your hand in a position that is comfortable and a throttle update isn't going to change your hand position. So, fatigue is minimal if at all based on 18 degrees difference.You are sitting here trying to argue a point that is so minimal and you don't want to agree it isn't huge. It isn't. If you can feel that 18 degrees is a huge difference, I am willing to bet you can tell by the seat of your pants 2 additional HP in your bike.Guess what? You can't...Just accept that it is a bolt on that you read about on one of the cheese ball forums like 10r.net and tried it out. The placebo effect occurred and while you thought it was a HUGE difference, it really wasn't. After all, you would have lessened fatigue more from Heli bars than a 1/5 throttle tube... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Im not saying you are wrong but what do you think the comparison between wrist movement fatigue vs wrist control/stability fatigue is since you have to be more careful with your movements with throttle control because its more sensitive. My guess is they are damn near identical thus the net result is 0 other then you can turn the throttle quicker. Dont forget that the goal is to get to WOT quicker and with less movement;..BUT you arent WOT on casual riding and therefore you would move your wrist less because you arent riding in the 10K+ rpm range.Either way, I will stick with my thoughts that track (Road/Drag) = Beneficial. Normal everyday riding = no real benefit other then its something you have "modded" that allows you to go faster/quicker and something to talk to noobs about at Quaker.Winner! Point is exactly right. Track and race - makes a difference. Street? Nope. Drag racing? Possibly... I still don't see a huge difference at the level you were at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Not to be a dick, but how often have you been to the track? blah blah blah blah Not to be a dick, but how many 500+ mile rides have you been on? I haven't tried to say anything about using it on the track other than I didn't know people did. Why? Because I openly admit to not knowing anything about the track. BTW i'll take it! I have a 97 tl1000!!!! Why? You won't notice a difference. It's a waste of time installing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I am willing to bet you can tell by the seat of your pants 2 additional HP in your bike.Guess what? You can't...I think this wink is all mine! I'll take it lol. My newest race bike has a 1/5 or 1/6 throttle on it and I love it. It would be a little touchy on the street in slower riding conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Not to be a dick, but how many 500+ mile rides have you been on? I haven't tried to say anything about using it on the track other than I didn't know people did. Why? Because I openly admit to not knowing anything about the track. Why? You won't notice a difference. It's a waste of time installing it. Plenty. Remember, Skippy... Been riding for about 22 years... I lost count at the number of street miles I have laid down. Numerous Goldwing, ST1100, VMax, XX, ZX12, 11, 10, FJ, etc rides at 500 plus miles. We used to ride to and from on trips to FL when going to the races if the weather held. That alone was a tad over 500 miles...As for the track days guys comment - you stated "Just never really heard of track day guys talking about it" making it sound as if you talk to many a track day guy...Oh, and Gixxie will probably know the difference and can probably tell you that he wants it for performance reasons - not for casual touring miles and long distances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I think this wink is all mine! I'll take it lol. My newest race bike has a 1/5 or 1/6 throttle on it and I love it. It would be a little touchy on the street in slower riding conditions.Now that you mentioned it... It could be a wink to you... However, it was all to Ben. The big difference in you two guys is that you can feel a lot more of a difference something provides vs what I bet Ben could. Reason being is that performance riding will teach you things about what your bike is doing and what changes can cause.Your throttles used on the track are going to make a difference - but, as I mentioned almost one hundred times now and you have so graciously supported in response - it will make minimal if any real effect on the street. Especially touring...1/6 is a bit touchy - especially on a liter bike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Brian, you're always right. I forgot. My bad. Arguing with you is like arguing with a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Brian, you're always right. I forgot. My bad. Arguing with you is like arguing with a woman.I'm not always right, but it's pretty tough to argue with. Your comments are a bit off. I supply retorts to your possible slammings (500 plus mile trips), I provide a retort to your 72 degrees vs 92 degrees not being that "huge" a deal, I provide REAL world results and common sense and all along, you not only come up with poor responses, you act like a third grade chick that is getting dumped by her 12 year old boyfriend.Why can't you seem to understand what was being said? I try to educate and use good info and examples and all through it, you never come up with anything other than childish "I know you are - what am I?" style responses.I know you used to be into cars and have very few years of motorcycling under your belt. No problem. But, understand that the reality is that many on here have more experience, possibly more ability and even more knowledge than you do. It all stemmed from the comment "It's a huge difference"... You allowed it to snowball. You could have easily agreed that it wasn't so huge a deal and simply not a huge effect for street use. But...I'll take the win if that was the end result being sought. But, trying to educate people what a 1/5 and 1/6 turn throttle upgrade can do or what it is useful for was the intent. Not what some BS Gixxer.com or ZX10r.net bunch of groupies think. Again, work on riding skills and they will result in WAY better things than any trivial bolt on will do. Like Flounder stated... It's like adding a fender eliminator kit to your bike...Or, look at it this way. You just got beat by a woman... Sucks, huh? A lot of guys know I used to run flowers on my helmets. Got made fun of. Right up until I passed them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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