shittygsxr Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 People do die because of insurance companies freedom, because Insurance companies won't insure you if you have pre-existing conditions, if they do, the deductible is $5000 a year and the premiums are insane, something nobody can afford. In Germany insurance companies have to abide by guidelines and are NOT allowed to turn you away for a pre-existing condition. I work in healthcare and it pains me to see sick people, poor and middle class or people that lost their job and their health insurance and they can't afford their $100 inhaler to enable them to breath, or they can't go see the doctor because they can't afford it. So these sick people will eventually succumb to their chronic diseases and in NO country should this happen. The USA is the one of the worst in healthcare in the western world amongst other things.The profit motive of the pharm company is the reason that $100 inhaler exists. Take away the profit andvthere won't even be an inhaler to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shittygsxr Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 So have I. The NHS is not perfect either, but nobody goes bankrupt through medical bills when they get sick, nobody has any reason to delay preventative treatment until more aggressive intervention is required, and nobody worries that they'll have to choose between life-saving medical care or providing for their families. Nobody worries about in-network, out of network, reasonable-and-customary, annual limits, lifetime limits, deductibles, copays, in-network-coverage percentages versus out-of-network percentages, pre-approval or any of that bullshit.For non-life-saving treatment going to the doctor is just the start of the crap. You can spend months chasing the paperwork to ensure you got paid correctly. I once spent 18 months chasing payments from an insurance company that made mistake after mistake after mistake, denying coverage at every turn until I finally proved they were under-paying me. It's bullshit start to finish.I've been treated under NHS and under the US system, and I'll say the US system is faster for electives if you are willing to pay, but that life-saving and preventative health care is the same in both countries, with the UK sparing us the paperwork burden of the US system. Neither system is perfect, but I'd rather have people wait-listed for electives than people (both insured and non-insured) bankrupted by major medical expenses.Most recent example... I broke my nose last year. Did the same thing in England when I was a teenager.US: Went to the ER. Got an x-ray and a MRI. Got my Dx and was discharged with referral to ENT. $2600. Out of pocket due to HDHP insurance. Went to ENT the next day, scheduled closed reduction surgery. Went to surgery, stayed 4 hours, discharged. Paid the ENT $2000. Paid the surgery center $3000. All out of pocket due to HDHP. End of the day I spent 6 months following up on paperwork to make sure that the amount applied to my deductible was appropriate and connecting bills from 4 different sources (ENT, ER, Surgery center, anesthesiologist) and reviewing the health plan to correct deduction limits and THEN found out the surgery center is either in-or-out of network depending on who did the surgery, so both ENT or SC bills may be applied to out-of-network deductible instead. I didn't choose the anesthesiologist and the SC didn't check my network so we didn;t know if HE was in or out, which would have knocked the SC out of network. Argued it out and got the deductible applied back to IN-network deductible. Final out-of-pocket wound up being a little over $8k, which took my months to pay back. And my wife and I both earn 6 figures and have typical employer-provided insurance.England: Went to ER. Got x-ray and MRI. They treated me and scheduled a closed reduction surgery for 3 days out. Went to outpatient surgery center and had the op. Stayed in the center for about 4 hours then went home. That was the end of it.If your combined income is over $200k then your poor finances are to blame for the difficulty in paying your bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 How much do you send your friend each month to help him pay off his $4m medical bill?All my vacation time for two years, so he could could stay at son's bedside at St.Judes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Why do you say that? Thats not the platform stance at all. No person in America goes without healthcare, and the "poor" get all of theirs for free.What of the 50m who earn too much for free care, but can't afford insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Now there's a real manly card to pull. I'm sorry for your pain if that's your kid but It is not mine. So pull the "your a heartless prick" card. When the system fails due to abuse of the 'You owe me people", people wait weeks to get in to see a doctor, doctors give up their practices because there's no money in it and serious cases are not accepted by doctors that remain because they will look bad on their record you can feel better that you spread the pain around to EVERYONE!Not my kid, a work buddy. The whole company pulled together to help them out as best we could (donating vacation time, organizing fundraisers etc) but at $4m owed we couldn't save them from bankruptcy.Moral of the story - even wealthy people with insurance cannot survive a catastrophic illness. Not you, not me, not any of us normal people.Oh, and who do you think paid that $4m?You did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 And of course the name-calling has to be a part of any liberal "argument". I can't recall a single advert from a healthcare provider which addresses this in any way, shape, or form. (Prepare for someone to post something obscure from youtube...).Two SuperPACs alone have pumped nearly 60 million into the anti-Obamacare rant. They don't have to disclose their donors because they are non profit (yeah right). So yeah, unless your head is made of stone they are pumping money into it to protect their profits. Not to make sure we peons get affordable or quality healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 What of the 50m who earn too much for free care, but can't afford insurance?It's ok Scruit, if the Republicans get their way we will all qualify for free healthcare. There will be 2 classes in the US, rich and poor. If you're reading this, you're not one of the rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 If your combined income is over $200k then your poor finances are to blame for the difficulty in paying your billsI paid my bills. The bills were just rediculously high. Now image I was living paycheck to paycheck and an $8k bill landed in my lap. Good luck, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 It's ok Scruit, if the Republicans get their way we will all qualify for free healthcare. There will be 2 classes in the US, rich and poor. If you're reading this, you're not one of the rich.Then they will de-fund medicare.The folks arguing against us here don't realize they are just as at risk of a catastrophic illness bankruptcy as anyone. They think "I have insurance, I'm fine." Hopefully they never find out how wrong they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Hopefully they never find out how wrong they are.Sometimes lessons are best learned the hard way.I just hope those folks aren't mad when others' are as callous about it as they were before the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Now there's a real manly card to pull. I'm sorry for your pain if that's your kid but It is not mine. So pull the "your a heartless prick" card. Wait, did I just see a spark of anger there? Possibly caused by emotion?You are uncomfortable when faced with the true human cost, but are too stubborn to consider changing that, aren't you?There's concern-for-your-fellow-man feelings in there somewhere, let them out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 The profit motive of the pharm company is the reason that $100 inhaler exists. Take away the profit andvthere won't even be an inhaler to buy.Yet, despite the not-for-profit the UK system, there are still inhalers to be had. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 In the spirit of "Don't knock it 'till you've tried it", I'd like to hear from anyone else who had experience both a socialised healthcare system AND a private system. Compare and contrast the experiences you had at both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Wait, did I just see a spark of anger there? Possibly caused by emotion?You are uncomfortable when faced with the true human cost, but are too stubborn to consider changing that, aren't you?There's concern-for-your-fellow-man feelings in there somewhere, let them out...My concern for my fellow man is for those who wish to help themselves. I'll hold the hand of anyone needing to cross the rivers in life, but I'll be damed if I'm carrying you because you're to lazy to try. I just can't wait for the liberal guberment to tell us we can't ride motorcycles anymore because it's too dangerous and we should all be in cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Scruit, you are speaking from my heart. I have never had anything to worry about in Germany. (Before you all start, the military stationed us here, that is why we're here) When I was sick, I went to the doctor, I got treated, I got better. Never had to pay a dime, no copay, no deductible, nothing. THAT IS WHAT INSURANCE IS FOR! DUH! I don't get this capitalistic way of living. And yes, change is so hard. I admit it, I am democratic at heart, because of the country I come from. I do understand what the president is trying to do. Another thing I cannot stand here is they way they campaign. It disgusts me! It is lame and the low blow commercials on either side make me wanna puke! They just look ridiculous in my eyes. The way the Repukes were doing jokes about the president is just sad. He is your elected official of this country. How are children supposed to learn respect, if the majority of the adults cannot respect authority????THis year is the first year I can vote in this country, but I might choose not to. That is something that is different in Germany also, you cannot publicly ruin ones reputation. It is not allowed. All they do is tell the public what they will change and how they will do it. (something you don't hear here either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 buildit...it is not the lowlifes I am concerned with, it is the people that HAVE worked all their lifes, that got laid off, people in between jobs etc, that won't qualify for Caresource, but can't afford any other type of insurance. People don't see the whole picture, the people that don't want to work ALL HAVE CARESOURCE already. President OBAMA is trying to help the people that deserve the help, the people in between. Get it right people!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHill Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 how about summing it up in one word: FUBAR....and it has nothing to do with the currently elected face of the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Fubar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 My concern for my fellow man is for those who wish to help themselves. I'll hold the hand of anyone needing to cross the rivers in life, but I'll be damed if I'm carrying you because you're to lazy to try. I just can't wait for the liberal guberment to tell us we can't ride motorcycles anymore because it's too dangerous and we should all be in cars. So my friends with the kid with leukemia? They were IT professionals earning high salaries and had insurance but couldn't handle a $4m healthcare bill. That wasn't laziness - that is the reality of catastrophic illness in the US.There ARE those that genuinely ARE lazy, and they need to be weeded out. But there are many more normal hardworking people that suffer through no fault of their own. That time it was them - next time could be you, or me, or anyone. We have the ability to fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Geez, I keep looking for the "like" button here....I must be too addicted to Facebook..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 When is the NHS going to start covering dental for crying out loud?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHill Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Fubar?fucked up beyond all recognition/recovery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazerlady Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 :rolleyes:Hmmmmmmm quiet from the other side. Guess they had to go watch some Fox news to try and get their next point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinsn3485 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Don't argue with idiots, someone walking by won't know who the idiot is...The "other side" knows when to stop...Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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