Not only does Walmart have low prices.

[DTM Brian]

Half the United States could not afford getting a new IPhone every time one comes out along with an IPad if it was not for the cheap prices at Walmart. Buy shit as cheap as you can so you think you can afford to buy shit you do not need.

[madcat6183]

It's interesting to me that so many people avoid Walmart yet seem to be very concerned for the workers there.

That's an oddly contradictory stance to take.

What will boycotts and massive avoidance of their stores do to the workers? Yeah, hurt 'em and hurt the communities that Walmart serves. Walmart has lost some market share recently, like everyone else tightening their belts. Healthcare costs went up, they don't control that. They cut benefits and wages, as a lot of companies have. I know the union pamphlets would like you believe the CEO was jerking off at the thought of these cuts, but don't you think they'd rather grow and have more happy employees making more? Well, boycott 'em that'll get it done.

When they were more flush with profits and healthcare was cheaper, they offered it to more employees and pay was better (for the dollar). I'd think if you care about the economy and WM's many workers you'd support what supports them. At the very least in a shit economy you'd want people currently stuck there to have a liferaft until things pick up and they have options. If everyone in the country avoided Walmart this year, they'd go under and in the short term that would send vast numbers of people to poverty that work there, or rely on Walmart. That would crush families, fixed income pensioners, poverty would skyrocket.

I guess it's a good thing some of us still shop there. You guys could really ruin lives, if you had your way.

So what's the plan? Do you think if you're successful in driving them out of business that the tens of thousands of workers will return to Mom & Pop and get better pay and cheap healthcare? Oh, that's gonna happen. Mom and pop didn't pay healthcare when it was cheap. Now? Fuck no. Do you think whoever comes in and takes Walmart's crown will be a more benevolent corporation? Because that's the only thing that will likely happen in their absence. Is Kmart gonna be a better overlord? Target? Big Lots? The retail industry is what it is, because people buy the cheapest shit they can afford for the most part.

There's no going back to the 1960's, that ship sailed a long time ago. On one hand I'm ok with pressure on big business to be a little better and do a little more...that's fine and dandy, in general the best man wins and a company's reputation will be it's best salesman, but it seems to me that many vilify Walmart to the exclusion of everyone else that behaves the same or worse, and people watch slanted propaganda and come away believing their cause is righteous without even considering the whole picture.

Next time any of you hip young revolutionaries are in Chipotle eating a burrito made by a part-time worker of questionable legal status, with no health insurance, and you're railing against The Man™ with your comrades ask yourself who is The Man™, and are you sure he's the problem.

Issue is their cuts started WAY before the boycotting ever did, it started when Sam died, not in the last few years like the boycotting did.

Yes, you are correct in people buy the cheapest stuff they can, but in the end shopping at Walmart doesn't help their employees as this whole thread has proven. It helps Walmart and their corp. that's it. It gives people jobs that they can barely afford to pay their gas with, live pay check to pay check. Am I saying Target, KMart, are better? I don't know, because there's never had to be any studies done on them, so I would guess yes, they are.

Also you seem to think that Walmart is employing everyone and saving the workforce by giving them jobs over their mom and pop stores, that's epic BS. Walmart forces US manufactures to close constantly, I.E. TV factory in Circleville, watch that video and read the facts. Walmart came in, undercut them to China saying that if they couldn't make TV's for X they would drop them and go to China. They did, and THEN built a Super Walmart less than 100 yards from the factory. They created something like 20 FT jobs at that store, and maybe another 100 or so PT paying 0 in benefits, while the factory that employed several hundred closed. It's constant like that accross the US, it isn't about mom and pop stores, it's about the manufacture's and them shipping those jobs overseas.

It's not an overnight fix, and most likely we will never see it, but Walmart in the end is bad for the economy and workforce. Wasn't always like this, but it is now.

[swingset]

Issue is their cuts started WAY before the boycotting ever did, it started when Sam died, not in the last few years like the boycotting did.

Yes, you are correct in people buy the cheapest stuff they can, but in the end shopping at Walmart doesn't help their employees as this whole thread has proven. It helps Walmart and their corp. that's it. It gives people jobs that they can barely afford to pay their gas with, live pay check to pay check. Am I saying Target, KMart, are better? I don't know, because there's never had to be any studies done on them, so I would guess yes, they are.

Also you seem to think that Walmart is employing everyone and saving the workforce by giving them jobs over their mom and pop stores, that's epic BS. Walmart forces US manufactures to close constantly, I.E. TV factory in Circleville, watch that video and read the facts. Walmart came in, undercut them to China saying that if they couldn't make TV's for X they would drop them and go to China. They did, and THEN built a Super Walmart less than 100 yards from the factory. They created something like 20 FT jobs at that store, and maybe another 100 or so PT paying 0 in benefits, while the factory that employed several hundred closed. It's constant like that accross the US, it isn't about mom and pop stores, it's about the manufacture's and them shipping those jobs overseas.

It's not an overnight fix, and most likely we will never see it, but Walmart in the end is bad for the economy and workforce. Wasn't always like this, but it is now.

What you're leaving out, or failing to learn on your own, is MOST large businesses try to entice their suppliers to meet their demands, seek tax benefits from government, try to leverage against their competition, pay out as little as possible where they can. It's called fucking business....and everyone plays it. Lots of companies have found a way to say no to Walmart, and thrive. And, as I said many times the consumer is ultimately the only person on the hook for all of this.

They decided 40 years ago that the big box business model is what they want and will support. Walmart grew out of that environment, they did not create it alone. Many many companies created that business model, and they ALL engaged in predatory practices.

For every bullshit story about how Walmart is the devil, there are stories like I mentioned last page where they spurred local growth and brought new business, jobs and even mom & pops to an undeveloped area. I live in one.

Come and visit it, I can show you dozens of stores that didn't exist until Walmart sprang up and renewed that end of town.

[madcat6183]

Wow, you really do have a super hard on for Walmart and this definitely is not worth my time. Like I said, in the end it's bad, that's all.

Just funny that Walmart is the ONLY store to ever have this maginitude of studies and reviews done of their business practices, and issues with their employee's, isn't it?

And insulting my intelligence or education background with the "failing to learn" comment, simply won't work, sorry. I'm not here for a p*ssing match, just posting information on a topic I happen to have a pretty extensive background in.

But it's cool, I'm out of this one.

[TSB67]

Just funny that Walmart is the ONLY store to ever have this maginitude of studies and reviews done of their business practices, and issues with their employee's, isn't it?

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are the largest private employer in the world.

[Revelstoker]

I refuse to shop there which sucks being in a small town with few other places to go. They really aren't that much cheaper than anywhere else but it's a pain when they are about the only place that sells kids toys.

Much like the "mauling" of America in the '70s and 80's that killed the down-towns and forced a inefficient "suburban" distribution model on many towns, Walmart came in in the '90s and decimated the small town America.

If Walmart didn't exist, there would be a place to buy toys.

[OSUYZFR1]

I've read all the posts and have to agree with swingset. Blaming Walmart for running other companies out of business is crazy. Obviously what they offer to the employee is better than what they can get elsewhere or why would they stick around? As a consumer, I shop at Walmart because they offer the same products I can get at meijer, target, etc at a cheaper price. If you want to run a business you have to be able to compete, and that means adapting, if you can. Otherwise you go out of business. What I don't like are the videos of people crying about how bad Walmart is. The consumer decides who stays around and who doesn't. They chose Walmart.

[swingset]

Much like the "mauling" of America in the '70s and 80's that killed the down-towns and forced a inefficient "suburban" distribution model on many towns, Walmart came in in the '90s and decimated the small town America.

If Walmart didn't exist, there would be a place to buy toys.

No one forced anyone. The buying public votes with it's dollars. If there's a more preferable way, it wins.

[Disclaimer]

You know something is up when people swear that Obama destroys all other businesses and yet Walmart is still thriving. Then it obviously stands to reason that Walmart is liberal and socialist and must be stopped to save America.

Right?

[swingset]

Wow, you really do have a super hard on for Walmart and this definitely is not worth my time. Like I said, in the end it's bad, that's all.

Just funny that Walmart is the ONLY store to ever have this maginitude of studies and reviews done of their business practices, and issues with their employee's, isn't it?

And insulting my intelligence or education background with the "failing to learn" comment, simply won't work, sorry. I'm not here for a p*ssing match, just posting information on a topic I happen to have a pretty extensive background in.

But it's cool, I'm out of this one.

I don't love Walmart, i hate pitchfork mobs. They are almost always good intentioned and wrong.

if you feel insulted, I'm sorry but you're exemplifying my point that people attack Walmart to the exclusion of all other business and miss that there is benefits they provide with the downsides, you and others won't concede that even tho it's equally well studied.

[swingset]

You know something is up when people swear that Obama destroys all other businesses and yet Walmart is still thriving. Then it obviously stands to reason that Walmart is liberal and socialist and must be stopped to save America.

Right?

i hope that didn't waste too many calories, it's a lame "gotcha". Walmart, like Dollar General tends to survive downturns because they appeal to those with less. More people struggling, more business for discount stores. Even so, all retail even Walmart is struggling to compete. Costs are up, energy prices up, shipping is up. They are cutting costs, and Obama's policies aren't helping business.

[madcat6183]

I don't love Walmart, i hate pitchfork mobs. They are almost always good intentioned and wrong.

if you feel insulted, I'm sorry but you're exemplifying my point that people attack Walmart to the exclusion of all other business and miss that there is benefits they provide with the downsides, you and others won't concede that even tho it's equally well studied.

Gotcha, then I apologize for being rude in my comments, I just thought it was a personal attack, which sounds like it was just an opinion which I interrupted wrong.

I apologize for that.

[Disclaimer]

These are the same idiots that voted this guy in, and we trust them to vote w/ their dollars too?

Right?

[swingset]

These are the same idiots that voted this guy in, and we trust them to vote w/ their dollars too?

Right?

The jabs keep getting weaker.

[OsuMj]

Interesting... that's why stupid and disingenuous guys with PhDs at institutions of higher learning devote their time to that very issue...

http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/retail/walmart.pdf

Rebuttal to you Dr. Swingset.

You know something is up when people swear that Obama destroys all other businesses and yet Walmart is still thriving. Then it obviously stands to reason that Walmart is liberal and socialist and must be stopped to save America.

Right?

These are the same idiots that voted this guy in, and we trust them to vote w/ their dollars too?

Right?

[Disclaimer]

The Wal-Mart effectIts Chinese imports have displaced nearly 200,000 U.S. jobs

http://www.epi.org/publication/ib235/

The world’s biggest retailer, U.S.-based Wal-Mart was responsible for $27 billion in U.S. imports from China in 2006 and 11% of the growth of the total U.S. trade deficit with China between 2001 and 2006. Wal-Mart’s trade deficit with China alone eliminated nearly 200,000 U.S. jobs in this period.

The manufacturing sector and its workers were hardest hit by the growth of Wal-Mart’s imports. Wal-Mart’s increased trade deficit with China eliminated 133,000 manufacturing jobs, 68% of those jobs lost from Wal-Mart’s imports. Jobs in the manufacturing sector pay higher wages and provide better benefits than most other industries, especially for workers with less than a college education.

http://www.businesspundit.com/stats-on-walmart/

Supersizing Supercenters? The Impact of Wal-Mart Supercenters on Body Mass Index and Obesity

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1263316

An additional Supercenter per 100,000 residents increases average BMI by 0.24 units and the obesity rate by 2.3 percentage points. These results imply that the proliferation of Walmart Supercenters explains 10.5% of the rise in obesity since the late 1980s, but the resulting increase in medical expenditures offsets only a small portion of consumers’ savings from shopping at Supercenters.

Pulitzer prize winning articles on the effects of Walmart (both good and bad) via LA Times

http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2004-National-Reporting

But the most telling/sad thing is I specifically searched for "Positive Things about Walmart" and the links above are what showed up.

And, just so we're clear... Walmart's official corporate position was backing Obamacare. So, keep that in mind.

[OsuMj]

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/6828

Across town, another mother also is familiar with the Supercenter's low prices. Kelly Gray, the chief breadwinner for five children, lost her job as a Raley's grocery clerk last December after Wal-Mart expanded into the supermarket business here. California-based Raley's closed all 18 of its stores in the area, laying off 1,400 workers.

Gray earned $14.68 an hour with a pension and family health insurance. Wal-Mart grocery workers typically make less than $9 an hour.

"It's like somebody came and broke into your home and took something huge and important away from you," said the 36-year-old. "I was scared. I cried. I shook."

This is what I was talking about before though. Demonizing a store/company when the "victims" are people who have 5 children and are the "chief breadwinner" in their family at <$15 an hour. Yeah, she was upset she lost her job, but tell me that she didn't benefit from paying the lower prices that wally world offers to buy her litter of children stuff.

[Disclaimer]

And if people and Walmart are so confident in the "vote with your dollars" argument, why are they so scared of a couple peaceful protests within peoples' Constitutional rights?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/business/wal-mart-files-with-nlrb-to-block-union-backed-protests.html?pagewanted=1&ref=business&_r=1&

[Disclaimer]

This is what I was talking about before though. Demonizing a store/company when the "victims" are people who have 5 children and are the "chief breadwinner" in their family at <$15 an hour. Yeah, she was upset she lost her job, but tell me that she didn't benefit from paying the lower prices that wally world offers to buy her litter of children stuff.

How do you want to solve that problem? She HAD a living wage apparently... so, you want to do income-based sterilization? I don't think that'll sit well with the pro-life church-going crowd. What if I base my budget / lifestyle on my current wage, then all of a sudden it's cut 40%? Should we just make everyone start living on 50% of their pay in order to account for that?

[TSB67]

Is there still a ranting and raving section?

[OsuMj]

I didn't say any of that - but they're using her emotions about her inability to plan for bad things happening "I was scared. I cried. I shook" to evoke emotions about Walmart. Is that fair? If I was scared, cried, and shook because you said something mean to me on the internet, when I knew that there was a possibility that you would and I would have my feelings hurt and I came to the internet anyway, would you support the notion that you're a horrible person because I didn't plan appropriately? OR would you say my skin was too thin and blame me for my emotions?

If you have 5 children, and the possibility of you losing your job isn't something that you plan for, then you're a moron. Your feelings about you being a moron shouldn't be used to demonize a company. IMO.

[OsuMj]

Is there still a ranting and raving section?

I dont think this thread is there yet. It still seems to be in useful debate area. Things usually go into R&R when the ranting and raving begin.

[Disclaimer]

I didn't say any of that - but they're using her emotions about her inability to plan for bad things happening "I was scared. I cried. I shook" to evoke emotions about Walmart. Is that fair? If I was scared, cried, and shook because you said something mean to me on the internet, when I knew that there was a possibility that you would and I would have my feelings hurt and I came to the internet anyway, would you support the notion that you're a horrible person because I didn't plan appropriately? OR would you say my skin was too thin and blame me for my emotions?

Lets get one thing straight. I'm a horrible person on AND off the internet. You can't take that away from me.

And I could care less about the "emotions". I'm not a 'bleeding heart'-type of guy... if I was, I'd have 40M pets to take care of because of those damn ASPCA commercials and Sarah Mclachlan songs. I look at the facts, which is why my concern was comparing the delta between her old wage/benefits to the current wage/benefits. The one where she was make ends meet, and the one where that's no longer feasible. I'm not faulting Wallyworld for her way of emotionally coping with it.

If you have 5 children, and the possibility of you losing your job isn't something that you plan for, then you're a moron. Your feelings about you being a moron shouldn't be used to demonize a company. IMO.

True. How much money should you set aside for losing your job when you're living paycheck to paycheck? Because what it ends up boiling down to is judgement of others' on what they've chosen to do w/ their life. Some people choose $15/hr jobs because higher education doesn't suit them (or a liberal arts degree ), or because they want to be mothers'/fathers' and spend more time raising their kids... others choose to pursue Masters and Doctorates because that's what they enjoy or aspire the lifestyle that comes along with those accolades.

So again, when you're making $15/hr and living paycheck to paycheck with 5 kids... how much should you set aside for emergencies? What do you sacrifice to make those savings? Want to judge her for having 5 kids, then I suppose we should implement some income criteria for having kids...? I dunno. Or are you just saying you're just happy to have the smug satisfaction of judging someone who may/may not have made the same choices as you?

[DTM Brian]

Thanks to everyone who as contributed to this topic.

Several people have pointed out that Walmart does not require a high level of intelligence, college degree, or special skills to work at. I agree with this. However, think of the number of manufacturing jobs along with those who had a job that used their college degree that are now out of work because job went to China.

Not everyone that works at Walmart is pond scum in terms of the work force. I would think there a number of their employees that are working their because they can not find any other work. If Walmart is the only job a person can find to support themselves and their family then more power to them.

Guys and Gals - I do not see how this country can survive on sales people, customer service, and computer related jobs alone. We need to make things. If we had never paid lower prices for things at places such as walmart we would never think we were paying too much in the first place.

So Instead of complaining on how much things cost how about we take a look at what we really need compared to the thing we do not need. I laugh at my friends who have the latest Iphone, 80" TV, new car etc, ect. There was nothing wrong with their phone that was a year old. The picture on their 50 inch tv looked sharp as ever. Their car with 50,000 miles could have gone another 100,000 miles. But in their eyes they had to have the latest and greatest. If you can afford to pay cash for these things then go right ahead. If your spending habits put you farther in debt and require a part time job on top of your full time job to make ends meet then I would suggest taking a second look at your spending habits.

I realize the business that I am is a luxury and not a need. This is why I continue to "save for a rainy day". You never know when my business is going to slow down to the point where I need to to do something else or go away all together. Yes I would like to go out and buy a new ZR1 or BMW 1000RR or a 90 inch TV. Instead I never want to worry about going hungry and have money when it is needed for things such as home repairs, etc.

[OsuMj]

Lets get one thing straight. I'm a horrible person on AND off the internet. You can't take that away from me.

And I could care less about the "emotions". I'm not a 'bleeding heart'-type of guy... if I was, I'd have 40M pets to take care of because of those damn ASPCA commercials and Sarah Mclachlan songs. I look at the facts, which is why my concern was comparing the delta between her old wage/benefits to the current wage/benefits. The one where she was make ends meet, and the one where that's no longer feasible. I'm not faulting Wallyworld for her way of emotionally coping with it.

True. How much money should you set aside for losing your job when you're living paycheck to paycheck? Because what it ends up boiling down to is judgement of others' on what they've chosen to do w/ their life. Some people choose $15/hr jobs because higher education doesn't suit them (or a liberal arts degree ), or because they want to be mothers'/fathers' and spend more time raising their kids... others choose to pursue Masters and Doctorates because that's what they enjoy or aspire the lifestyle that comes along with those accolades.

So again, when you're making $15/hr and living paycheck to paycheck with 5 kids... how much should you set aside for emergencies? What do you sacrifice to make those savings? Want to judge her for having 5 kids, then I suppose we should implement some income criteria for having kids...? I dunno. Or are you just saying you're just happy to have the smug satisfaction of judging someone who may/may not have made the same choices as you?

You're straying from the topic. My point is that so many people try to use other people's emotions about why we should all hate walmart. Give me some FACTS (and not the kind that are skewed to make me want to hate or like them - the kind that let me analyze the actual situation and form my own decisions) that tell me why I should hate walmart, and there's a good chance I will listen. I'm not going to hate walmart because someone who made a few poor life decisions cried and shook because she lost her job - although I think a lot of people would mistake their empathy for her situation as something related to how walmart is 'bad'.