smashweights

what really is the difference between justice and revenge? justice: "the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments" revenge: "to avenge (as oneself) usually by retaliating in kind or degree" avenge: "to exact satisfaction for (a wrong) by punishing the wrongdoer" Really the only difference is impartiality (vs. satisfaction) and merit. By having a jury of people not directly affected by the crime brings impartiality, merited punishment is really what we're debating here.

Diavel or something off-road capable

The guy in Cleveland imprisoned his victims for years. Are we any better than him for imprisoning him for his crime? Does that make us the same as him?

Oh I agree. Just pointing it out since the news was going apeshit over him "gasping" "choking" and "making gurgly noises" today.

FWIW, doesn't mean he was aware or experienced it

The fuck did I just watch???

This was one I researched a lot before buying my first and was planning to get one. The general consensus back about 7 years ago was great starter bike with enough power for a new rider to enjoy without being boring, but for those prone to like high performance, they'll likely get the itch to upgrade to a 600cc supersport in a year or two once their skills improve. More comfortable than a supersport.

This is the problem I have with the law: if it requires a degree and full-time study to understand what the average citizen can and cannot do, it becomes worthless.

Very true. Same stuff goes on at hospitals. I'd be willing to be you could walk your way into just about any operating room you wanted with a set of scrubs and a cap on.

The same compensation delivered to the family?

So how much money is 17 years of the life of an innocent person worth? Be sure to consider missing out on every family occasion, loved ones dying while imprisoned, friendships disappearing, missing your children growing up, losing most of your marketable job skills, etc worth?

Correction: the remainder of the sentence can be revoked. You cannot give someone back the years of life they have lost while incarcerated. So the question still remains: how many innocent people should have their lives (any length of it) taken from them in order to justify taking life (any length of it) from the guilty?

I'm just flipping your tactics back around to attack your logic: You said: How many innocent people should die to preserve the death penalty? I said: how many innocent people should be imprisoned to preserve imprisonment? It's just as straight-forward and loaded as your question.

But you didn't answer my question: how many innocent people should have to spend 17 years in prison to justify imprisoning guilty persons?

I think his point is the Feds go after pot plenty: http://origin.wzzm13.com/news/article/271151/2/27-arrested-in-five-county-marijuana-bust http://www.hickoryrecord.com/independent_tribune/news/article_acc941c4-c7dc-11e2-b04e-0019bb30f31a.html Yeah, usually bigger stuff and distribution, but that's exactly what just got legalized in Colorado

Isn't that the point? CCW is legal, but not really most of the time.

That dives into the issue of moral relativism. Why is death the only area where society shouldn't have the right to decide? Or better yet why does society have the right to decide that anyone should forfeit ANY portion of their life? Why should society have the right to strip away decades of someone's life but not the entirety of it? You even managed to contradict yourself: "I think the notion that anyone has the right to decide someone else 'deserves' to die is audacious.... the only time killing another individual is justified is when it is immediately necessary to prevent further loss of life." Same here, and I was disgusted by all the people who wanted to be excused from service. I was 19 at the time and ended up being picked as the lead juror for our case amongst nothing but 30+ year old people, presumably because I was the only person who cared enough to dress professionally. This one woman at selection was in TEARS because she just didn't want to be there, she had no reason, she just didn't want to serve. The judge told her to leave because he would never want someone who didn't want to be on a jury deciding someone's fate and hoped that she never needed such a service from her fellow citizens.

The same as the number of people who would be incarcerated for life without parole and innocent? I guess I just don't see why spending decades rotting in prison locked away from any semblance of life is somehow morally superior to ending life, particularly when it's as humanely as midazolam/hydromorphone overdose (going back to the point of the OP article) in the absence of eventual exoneration. Furthermore, you can just keep pushing your logic/tactics further, should we even have a justice system if anyone innocent will be convicted? After all, how many innocent people being locked away is acceptable in the pursuit of justice? Or how many years in prison for an innocent person is acceptable? It's a loaded question, plain and simple. If, however, our justice system was flawless and had a zero percent chance of executing the innocent, would capital punishment be acceptable? Yes, the thought of executing an innocent person is gut-wrenching and heartbreaking. But, absent being exonerated, I don't think someone spending 50+ years behind bars and dying in a prison cell an innocent man is any more palatable or morally superior. You're absolutely right, it could. But those SAME technological advances will also serve to IMPROVE the accuracy of convictions as well, making execution of innocent less likely to occur and thus capital punishment in general more palatable. We have DNA evidence now, which means since '85 every conviction in which it contributes is that much stronger of a conviction than it otherwise would have been.

I thought it would be an interesting scenario if on day 2 of legal weed the FBI confiscated every pot shop's stash, closed them down, took their sales records, and arrested everyone who bought anything.

Sure, but the average death row stay is still 13+ years, a pretty good amount of time. How many folks really get proven innocent after 20+ years?

Guess all those pot heads in Colorado are in for a rude FBI awakening ;-)

I do because I don't think imprisoning an innocent person for the rest of their life is any better. No one would ever say they support innocent people being punished, regardless of the penalty be that 10 days in prison on execution. By your logic, if you say "life without parole" is an option then you must also be in favor of putting innocent people in prison for life without parole, because the two go hand in hand because... our justice system is good, but imperfect. I wasn't suggesting that you thought we should release people, just that executing those people would have saved lives. Sadly you're right.

It's not a deterrent anymore because it's not in the public eye. No one is hung from the gallows in the public square for all the people to see anymore. No one sees the regret and apologies as a man is about to have the platform dropped out from under him. No one sees the pain in the family members eyes as they see their loved one executed justly. It's not "real" for most folks.

http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html You could alternatively view that as a list of people who's lives would have been saved had these convicted murderers been executed. Just think of all the dad's that would still get to hug their kids if they had executed the killers the first time around...

Meh, the majority of those would have just spent the rest of their lives in prison instead. A better alternative? BUT back to the main point: this drug combo is basically two drugs that druggies try to scam Emergency Rooms out of all the time: Versed (midazolam, cousin of Xanax) and Dilaudid, a very powerful opiate If I died, this is how I'd want to go out: high out of my fucking mind. And the argument that he might experience a terrifying or suffocating sensation for a few minutes before dying? Who the fuck cares? That's a pittance compared to what he's done to others.