snodgrass23

Are you talking about a race in snow?

No, a car that usually uses slicks wouldn't be racing in the snow. I was using a normal dry day as a comparison to remove some variables.

Nascar at least is RWD, so the rear tires push the vehicle forward while the slicks steer. The car would not spin out on dry pavement because you have much better traction on the front.

You do realize that loss of traction on the rear tires is what generally causes a spin out, right???????

Being a slick 100% of the tire is touching the ground for traction. Street tires have grooves for water, ice, snow. Not perfect traction on a dry road. It would spin out on snow/ice/wet because the slicks would then have no traction.

Thanks for explaining how street tires work. It would not spin out, however, it would under-steer.

Going with your race car theme, if you put slicks on the front of a FWD car and brand new snow tires on the rear, how well is this going to drive in the snow? Probably nowhere right? Now reverse the tire locations, all of a sudden you have traction to drive. The weight of the engine and transmission is over the drive wheels that have the traction.

You have mistaken the ability to drive as in moving at all in snowy conditions with the ability to control the car once up to speed. This is the initial traction, and although annoying, isn't usually dangerous. What is dangerous is a car that has plenty of the kind of traction you want which gets it up to speed better but then can be dangerous because the tires with the worse traction, in this case much worse, will then be in danger of losing all traction.

Your theory works great in deeper snow moving 10-20mph, but what happens when it clears up a little and you'd like to drive closer to a normal speed on the highway.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071122192629AAskAdT

http://besttiresonline.com/TiresBlog/9/winter-tires-snow-tires-critical-in-winter/

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129226

Corvette, Mustang, CTS, Camaro, Challenger... now go find me statistics boy.

You may be thinking of power oversteer, or the ability to invoke oversteer, which is different. Just because a car can oversteer doesn't mean the suspension is setup for it. Look at the old 911's that had a bad case of oversteer. They were notorious for spinning out for seemingly no reason. That is why they have such a difference in tire size, front and rear, to try to keep it under control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer#Understeer_values

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer#In_road_cars

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/13025-understeer-good-bad-2.html#post117596

That makes VERY little sense to me. If this is the situation, someone is outdriving the road conditions. I ALWAYS want the better traction tires on the front of a front wheel drive car. My wife's car is that way.

BTW, I do this stuff for a living, although we're not a tire shop. We do tires, but it's not our primary business.

Whether it makes sense to you is irrelevant to the shop's policy.

uhhh NO.. That makes ZERO sense at all. Using your logic his car should spin out equally as easily with the snow tires on the rear. On my front wheel drive vehicles I have always installed the studded tires on the front. If you don't have traction at your drive tires then you ain't driving you're just sitting in your driveway kicking up snow!

Again, whether it makes sense to you is irrelevant. Having the tires on the front or the back determines the handling characteristics of the vehicle. Having the snow tires on the back isn't ideal either, but under-steer is a lot more safe and controllable than over-steer. Why do you think 99.9% of all vehicles in their stock form are setup to under-steer. Find any car that has any tendency for over-steering, and I guarantee is also is one that gets wrecked more often.

Most people here, though, are talking about worn or "better" tires especially when talking about rotating them. This is a completely different situation and it revolves around wear, not traction. This issue with this situation is the snow tires are going to have a completely different traction profile than the other ones. Realize this doesn't just apply to things like heavy snow driving, but also cold, wet, and icy driving as well. This would be like taking a race car and putting slicks on the front tires and street tires on the rear. How long do you think it would take before that car was spun out, and this is with an experienced driver.

If they knew that installing the tires in such a way that they thought it would be dangerous, they definitely could be held responsible in some way. If your loved one died in an accident after installing these tires, and they said they thought it could cause the car to become uncontrollable, you don't think they would then shoulder some of the responsibility for installing them anyway?

However, if this was their policy, they should have been as adamant about it when he was buying the tires so that he didn't have to go through the process of taking them back afterward.

The problem, though, is the front will end up getting so much better traction that the car will end up spinning out pretty easily and probably at higher speeds. So, it will go better around the neighborhood at slows speeds, but on off and on ramps and even general interstate driving in general the car will tend to have some nasty snap over-steer.

With tires as different as that, you really should get them on all 4 tires.

I see you have been around for a month and now you need your 50 posts. Does someone have something to sell?

Go shit up the place in one spot instead of posting once in every thread.

My first thought was, "that was kind of rude, even for here." Then I went through all the new posts and he has posted in every single thread on the front page. Maybe he's just chatty.

yeah, the blowing snow hurt visibility quite a bit. I thought it seemed more slippery than the last few storms too on my way home.

This is what I think of this weather. Ugh... Why do I still live in Ohio?

I use Firefox and Chrome, but still use Firefox for most things. Emailing bookmarks and all that is sooooo last year.

Here are a few apps to get you going. I use at least 3 PC's on a daily basis and need to keep as much info synced between them as possible, this includes files and favorites. This also works great when I need to rebuild a machine as I don't have to worry about backing up all of that stuff.

XMARKS

They have this for IE as well. Keeps all your favorites the same on all synced machines.

Dropbox

Sets up a shared folder on your machine. It then syncs with any other machines. So I keep anything I want to have on all my machines, like all my school homework. Basically anything that I used to keep on a flash drive, I now put here and I don't have to carry a drive around with me.

I've wanted a Kawasaki ZX6R since I was in high school. I used to go down to the local dealership and sit on them as much as possible. As more time went by, I just never got around to buying a bike. I road my roommates bike in college, illegally and with no gear like a moron, though usually just around the block.

The want for the bike never went away, I still kept up with the new models each year and always had at least one mag subscription, but never got around to putting the money down on one. Last year, my little brother got a 96 Katana 600. When the family was visiting for his kids birthday party, I took it for a spin down the road. It was the first time I had ridden a bike in almost 5 years and the bug immediately bit me again. I decided it was enough of "someday I'll get one" and started forth the plans for what I was going to get.

I immediately borrowed my other brothers Honda 250 and got some riding gear and a permit. I rode it after work most days until it got too cold. I had decided that I was going to get a new Ducati Monster as I thought it would be more comfortable than a pure sport bike, but the ergonomics were still sporty and it would have enough power to keep me happy for a while. Plus, I loved the look of them and when I sat on one, it fit me like a glove. I put together $3000 for a down payment and was going to finance one in the Spring when the deals started coming out since I wouldn't be able to ride it much till then anyway.

The urge didn't let me wait. I started thinking, with that down payment money, I could almost get a used ZX6R that I wanted all those years ago and not have any payments. So, I immediately started looking at sport bikes, particularly the 05-06 636 models of the zx6r and I knew the Magma Red was my favorite color, though color wasn't really a deciding factor. Then one day on craigslist, I come across a magma red 05 in Columbus for $4500. It had a bunch of stickers on it, but it looked like it may be in good shape otherwise, so I called the number. It turned out that it was a trade in at a car dealership right beside where I worked, so immediately planned the trip down to check it out.

When I got there, it was exactly the bike I wanted. I couldn't easily get to his price since I was starting with my original down payment stash and knew it would be close to $5k by the time they tacked on taxes and fees. I told them I would buy it on the spot at $4k out the door. They took it, and that's where I stand today. I've had it for about a month now and have put about 500 miles on it even with all the crappy weather.

Only pic I have right now.

Awesome new feature!! I've seen some map stuff on other forums, but this is better and will actually be more useful on this type of site. Great job!!

(have i mentioned this site has the funniest collection of smilies I've seen, every time I look through the list for one it cracks me up)

I agree with everyone else. This forum seems to be pretty stable and I don't ever see it having performance issues. I would keep it as-is.

BTW. I am a PHP developer by day, I would be willing to help out if needed.

I work right beside there at the hospital and notice the sign change recently. I was just there a couple of weeks ago, assuming it was still BWR then.

+1. Who wants an S-10 with a hatchback body on it?

I look at it like the difference between a Miata and a Lotus.

They're both capable and I'd rather have a Miata and a Camaro in my garage rather than just one Lotus.

yeah....no....

I'm taking the lotus everyday of the week given those choices.

they got it here too.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/rc/b8ab/

I hope they didn't PAY someone for that mess!

Seriously. That's a pretty crappy site. I just set up their show to record, I'll check it out.

yeah, I have Twist II as well.

Franklin classes canceled for tonight now too. Unfortunately, they rescheduled them for Friday. I was going to take the wife out for Valentine's on Friday night since we'll be busy all weekend. I guess I'm skipping this class. Darn...

so you guys with Duc experience, the MSRP...is that THE price or do they deal at all on them? like for a 2009 SF or M1100??

You can usually deal a little, though not a lot, generally. Best bet is to find a used one with really low miles.

Example, I saw a M1100s (@14k) with all the the dealer mods: full Termi exhaust, upgraded ducati seat,Sato rear sets, and tons of CF. It would have ran @18k or more MSRP at the dealer. It had @600 miles and it sold for @$12k.

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/monsters-sale/194587-fs-2009-ducati-monster-1100s-red-full-termi-800mi-like-new.html

wow.....just....wow...

I saw two CPD motocycle cops on Morse Rd today near Easton. They both had sidecars so thats a little better.

I gotta give the guy leading props for the bright yellow dayglo jacket' date=' I noticed his jacket in my side mirror before I ever saw his light or bike.

Everyone that knows me knows I'm a fan of the flourescent [/quote']

I saw a guy at Panera on East Broad with the same outfit and a motorcycle with sidecar. He had a complete Gerbing heated outfit (at least the gloves and jacket).

I'm just not a fan of the nasty salt on the roads getting on my beautiful bike....

I'm not a fan of my beautiful bike sitting in the garage getting lonely.

Yeah, same here. Main roads are fine. The roads in my area are usually ignored, but someone in my complex had a bobcat and cleaned a bunch of them on Saturday, including my driveway. What's left is big clumps of ice.