Geeto67

just to get us back on topic: http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/06/01/480284223/a-gorilla-is-killed-and-our-parent-shaming-culture-springs-to-life http://www.inquisitr.com/2991619/parent-shaming-on-the-rise-how-social-media-creates-so-many-parenting-experts/ http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/inside-trend-parent-shaming/story?id=37752623

No they aren't, there are actually people out there in academia that are not "liberal" unless you are so far right that even the republican extremists look liberal. But at that point you kinda have to be honest with yourself that you have made some very large leaps of faith that the data in the common realm doesn't support. I am not saying there are a lot, but it does exist. There are a lot of theories out there as to why this is (I prefer the self selection bias myself) and they are interesting, but just making a blanket statement and giving up is not prima facie evidence that you can't have an intellectual or academic conversation with a conservative point of view. At the end of the day you can't mess with the numbers. You can mess with the interpretation, you can mess with the collection but as long as you adjust your view and address those points (and the mechanics of collection are devoid of tampering) the data is still credible. It doesn't become less credible because you declare all of academia liberal - 4 is not liberal or conservative it is just 4. You can maybe say the way that 4 was collected was "liberal" in criteria, but you can't say "that 4 is a 5 because I believe it is a 5 an dif you believe it is a 4 you are a pussy". Really? because it looks like your opinion is based on this other guy because you are using his points as yours. And it looks like he started with an opinion and then went searching for data (where he could - as I said some of the statements are literally just "California is the worst because: Sacramento") that could be made to support the assertion - its like a conservative version of buzzfeed. That's like asking me to refute something from mad magazine, get real. On it's face its a joke, if you can't see that...I don't know what to tell you.

Nobody is expecting a court of law Tim, I just think I was giving you too much credit. I'm not expecting "court level citations" but something written by actual academics would have been nice. You know, a study or two. I'm not really all that interested in your opinions, they aren't really anything I haven't heard before, I'm interested (fascinated actually) in what you relied on to form you opinion. If it is stuff like this, I'm not really all that interested anymore. There was almost nothing "solid" there, maybe one or two items out of 55 that rose to the level of beyond highly suspect. it's just pandering to an already conservative audience.

I read that whole article Tim and all I can say is I'm really disappointed in you. I was expecting something real and I get what is apparently the middle class conservative version of a Facebook top ten list. Seriously, many of the items on that list were just unsupportable opinion...I mean...5 of the items are just names of cities. i don't think I was expecting anything as massively vacuous as that. I dunno Tim, maybe I was expecting something a little more grounded in reality or at least supportable by some semblance of actual data analyzation...and maybe I am just expecting too much of you. Also your blatant homophobia is tacky. Ok it's more than tacky but I'm being kind.

I use that when I come to the sad realization that the persons outlook is based on a flawed core belief. It's a fiction that they invent to justify some behavior that the hold on to with a religious fervor and the transition point from an open mind to a closed one. E.g. If you truly believe everything is equal and fair and everyone has the same opportunity in America because it helps you sleep better at night, the facts don't support it and it's fundamentally not true but there is nothing I can do about it because you sleep better at night.

I mean, I can't be the first to point out the sky is always falling attitude, right? This isn't news to you. please define what makes something a "pussified" state? gun control can't be the singular issue...

Tim, your new nickname is chicken little. Seriously I am going to call you that from now on. In person. The fictional land in which you live must be spectacular.

it will be a real chimp on his shoulder for sure. The fame could drive him bananas if he is not careful.

141 competitor fatalities during the race event (not practices), the rest of the 248 (2015 numbers) are spectators and race officials. you know an event is no joke when just its fatalities has its own wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Snaefell_Mountain_Course_fatalities#List_of_fatal_accidents_involving_competitors

Right after obama comes for your guns. That's still a thing right? He's still coming? The "battleground" in premises liability for this sort of thing these days is small. Often the changes that come are increased signage or standardization of language, maybe a change in internal procedures and protocols for how a company operates. Often times if a suit is successful there were already measures in place and they just weren't followed (like leaving locked gates in apartment complexes open) or the current actions in hindsight are contrary to common sense (aka reasonable standards). But we don't have any drama without the chicken littles of the world saying the "pussification of America us upon us" because we are all going to have to sign waivers and give urine samples and whatnot.

It isn't a race agenda. You said some stuff that made you look like a racist and are now backpedaling to try and not look like one. the majority of everything else I have said here with every one but you has been about litigation. here is a pro tip: if you don't want people to think you are racist, don't say racist shit. I think we are done here.

I don't have to assume anything - the previous posts to your comment include links to videos and pictures of the parents. Either you saw them and made your conclusion or you didn't and are just talking out of your ass. Either way, again what does it matter if I think you are a racist a-hole? you "IDGAF" remember? you are entitled to your opinion as am I to mine. you can think I am pussy all you want just as I am going to think your statements make you look like an asshole. is the problem that you don't want me to think your statements make you look like an asshole? because that isn't going to happen. the supreme court said even illinois nazi's are entitled to their opinion however unpopular it may be (it's a case about free speech - I'm not calling you a nazi, yet). If you really don't care about people's opinions then why do you care if I call you an asshole when you call me a pussy? you are weird. I'm sorry, the term you used was "the neighborhood". Don't back pedal.

I don't think anybody here is saying parents don't have a responsibility to keep their kids safe. The Zoo however has a responsibility to make reasonable efforts to keep everyone that visits the park safe. The question litigation usually seeks to answer is "did the zoo make those reasonable efforts". The thing that bothers me about this "parents should take responsibility" mantra that seems to get thrown around here is you are letting property owners off the hook for their responsibilities, despite 100s of years of property and premises liability law. seriously, read some of the comments here. I am pretty sure some of the more conservative members word things just because in their mind they are pissing off some imaginary liberal stereotype they have in their head. If that isn't a form if trolling then....what? I don't know how you read "softening" the world from that. Litigation can serve as an incentive to improve things. There are some long reaching positive societal effects that come from getting an "official" interpretation of how things work, or forcing an industry to invest in industry wide improvements when it runs contrary to the bottom line. Everything from child labor laws to food service industry health codes, to automotive safety measures have their roots in litigation. Either you see that positive effect or you don't, but the nice part about it is that it exists either way. And before someone brings up the free market argument history is littered with the free market suppressing things that benefit of the end user because it would have cost the industry development money. Preston Tucker is a pretty good example of this. Depends on the person. There are people here who are open minded, and there are those that look at "liberalism" as if it were some sort of social disease. People who seek understanding ask questions and prod the conversation - the others? well no shortage of insults. every time we get some thread like this the same cast of characters come out of the woodwork to bitch about people not taking enough "personal" responsibility. To what end? to feel morally superior in some way? The idea that people are less personally responsible now than in the past is a fiction. Advancements in legislation and enforcement insure that in general people take more responsibility than ever before because they have to. Sure it is the stick and not the carrot, but still it is improvement. There are no "good old days" the conditions of the past are always worse than where we are now, and the future will always be better - it's the way things work. It is not "weak" or "soft" to be compassionate to your fellow man, and being callous regarding people in a tragedy don't make you look tough.

calling someone a "liberal pussy" doesn't make anything more racist - it just makes you look like a closed minded a-hole. Publicly proclaiming a woman is on welfare, a welfare cheat, and the town bicycle because all you know about her is she is black, has 4 kids, and her kid fell in a gorilla cage...well...I hope you see how it makes you look now.

the BWM cats and mufflers are just slip on, you could remove the back "h pipe" and get two cheap slip ons. Shouldn't be hard to make a bracket for them either. here is the fiche that shows the seperate head pipes and H pipe: http://cdn1.bikebandit-images.com/schematics/schematics/bmw/bmw004/bmw-05-05-08758.gif If you really don't like your neighbors, you can just go to a speed shop and just get a set of car exhaust tips to finish out the back end of the pipe (and to extend the exhaust pipe so you don't burn a valve with the pipe being too short). It will be loud.

To whom? and why should it matter? it isn't going to change anything. Sometimes (not every time). Sometimes it is called investing in government funded education. Sometimes it is called more accessibility to higher education. Sometimes it is called underwriting the local library so they have decent books and programs. When Republicans invested in education, this country went to the moon and invented personal computers. Government investment in educational programs works, Eisenhower proved it in the 50's. The downside is it led to a glut of engineers in the market place and eroding the national salary but that was temporary. Right now there is more incentive for the republican party to keep their supporters stupid so they can exploit their emotions to garner votes to make the ruling class richer. Has nothing to do with what's best for the general population. I don't, I was just saying your assumptions about settlement were premature. Actually staring at the cost of medical treatment for the kid is probably a large factor as well, and the potential for that cost in the future. Not everything is about money for nothing. and what was her "net"? after the lawyers took their cut and she subtracts what she had to pay in costs for both medical and upfront atty costs - what was her real take home? Also something that big I have to imagine there was an allocation for future effects surfacing so she is taking a gamble that later on down the road she may not have a seizure resulting from this head trauma. How much "free money" was there really? and companies need to warn consumers when they do stuff out of the ordinary. if the pizza restaurant you are considering suing is handing you a pizza that was baked at 450 degrees when the industry standard is to bake it at 350, don't you think you ought to know that it will take longer for the pizza to cool down before eating it? I mean this is already one of the reasons why restaurants let plated food sit before being served instead of taking it fresh from the oven to your table and if they do why the waitress says to you "careful it's hot". Remember, when the mcdonalds case happened there were many new cars that didn't have cup holders yet. I mean it's really the American way to invent drive up food but not put a way to hold the beverage in the car for almost 40 years after. It's not about multi-tasking it's about holding a damn cup of coffee. Wanna know where the majority of liquid burn cases are? It isn't fast food, that well is dry - it's from nurses giving hot tea to drowsy patients post surgery and the issue is whether the nurse should have known better. Are you really put out by a "bigger piece of glass?" Are you really enjoying the exhibit that much less? really? warning labels and such are locked in the game of inventing the idiot proof trap and the world inventing the better idiot. The way to reverse this is to invest in public education. Put the money into the schools and watch what comes out the back end - last time we went to the moon, where will we go now.

you saw a black unwed mother talk about her kid falling into a zoo enclosure and accused her of being a social sponge, welfare cheat, and a slut with no other evidence. I mean, is it just not obvious to you?

Nobody says you are alone in your position - the world is full of people and those people are full of opinions. Petitions are somewhat meaningless in that they are just one of the many forms of protest and probably the least offensive/effective, but they make everyone feel good by being a participant so....take it for what it is worth. This is just reactionary, it has not been "ringing" any dinner bell. Considering how expensive litigation can get and how little guarantee there is for payoff you have better odds in Vegas. this country is quick to lawyer up and sue because people don't always understand their rights and feel like they are being cheated, and the free market has covered the demand for a back end fix rather than front end pro-active education. If it has been under renovation then the park should have taken extra care. As to "throw money" well actually you contribute to that by paying attention to this and make it a negative PR concern for the Zoo. Does money play a factor in any settlement? of course, litigation can get expensive from both a public perception standpoint as well as a actual cost standpoint - but let's save those judgement for when the zoo decides to settle since a lot of zoos have been going to trial on these issues as of late. For defendants, money is always a consideration in settling. it's the cost of the gamble vs the cost of the sure thing. As for this "dicking around" and BS stuff you'll have to be more specific. I mean our legislative process is not perfect by any means but it is all we have. Any system that is overtaxed is ripe for abuse. Are there abuses? sure, there are abuses in everything. I still think that the ratio of people who think it is the lotto vs the number of people it actually acts like a lotto for is very wide, but most of that again is education and people not understanding the justice system. successful big pay outs are like plane crashes - newsworthy because of their rarity. Please do me a favor and actually read up on the mcdonalds case. I defended a "coffee burn" case once and they are a lot more complex than you think. Esp when you factor in how small changes in temperature can go from mild irritation to skin graft levels of damage very fast. As for Dr's, again sometimes there are "abuses" and sometimes the Dr. had it coming. It's hard to make a case that Dr's shouldn't ever get sued when they do stuff like leave instruments in surgical patients or try to buy illegal firearms in order to kill their patients (both cases I worked on). I mean, litigation does act as a form of reactive quality control on the practice of medicine. here is what I can tell you from my time in the trenches: Really bad or really good cases on both sides are rare. If the plaintiff has no case it usually goes away right after depositions. If the plaintiff has a really really good case it settles because there is no chance in hell a jury is going to side with a Dr who left his sunglasses in the patient's abdomen. The rest revolve around the national "standard" of care and whether it was breached or not. Most smart med mal plaintiffs will not take a case on contingency because of the cost of experts so it is a battle of the bills in "settlement" but if you are talking about settlement then already you are talking about a case where there is a reasonable chance of success on either side. In the grand scheme of all cases, med mal is tiny in terms of volume. Even the biggest med mal defense firms are considered small firms compared defense firms in other areas. It sometimes isn't there to protect the masses, sometimes it is there to protect the companies. Sometimes it is to protect the government. don't assume it is just because of a few idiots - there are way more idiots out there than you think and sometimes it's to keep more of the same idiots from walking through the door. Warning labels on lawnmowers don't protect the end user from sticking their hand in the blades, they protect the company from getting sued by morons who think a proper way to service the lawn mower is to stick their hands in the blades. If you don't read the manual and do something stupid it's your own fault for doing it, but remember the right to that manual and the warning sticker is covered in someone's blood because there was a time companies giving you operation instructions was looked upon as sharing a "trade secret". Sometimes consumer protection is company protection. and then sometimes a company makes a pinto and wrongful death litigation prods them to Focus, become an Explorer, be a mustang in the industry, and Aspire to make something better than a pinto. Escort.

You think you haven't but you have. You just haven't thought it through enough or looked at it form any point of view but your own narrow one. The good news is you are entiteld to your opinion about welfare or black people or whatever just as much as I am entitled to mine that your opinion sucks. And really in the grand scheme it makes no difference. my persistence here is evidence that I am not looking for anybody's approval. You " Israeli Defense Force Air Force"? I don't get it. If you meant to say "I DGAF" as in "I don't give a Fuck"....then let me ask you this....how is having the constantly dissenting and unpopular opinion and knowing that evidence that I am looking for approval. If anything it's proof of the opposite. I don't have the power to ban anybody's account. I'm going to guess that your time spent in the charitable sector is probably 0. I have seen some of the best attorney's of my life toil at $40K a year in the public defender's office because idealism. A person's self worth is not measured in only money. Don't be so superficial. As for the fat jokes and personal insults - the depth of your class continues to underwhelm.

You are assuming neglect where it has not been proven. At trial if there is actual neglect it will be addressed and the jury will side with the Zoo. It is possible for these things to happen were the actions of people don't rise to the societal standard of neglect. It's not pandering. The purpose of any judgement is to put the injured party whole. If the mother is successful in her suit, then the amount she will recover will be adequate to compensate for the injury in terms of medical expense, lost wages, etc... and will be off set by any percentage of contributory negligence. It is not "free money". If there is a case to support the parent's paying for the property damage of the gorilla being killed, it will be addressed at trial. Punitive damages exist as a way of punishing individuals and companies for bad behavior that would have been obvious to anybody that they should not have been doing what ever it is they did. The standard is high and the award is tough to get which is why it is newsworthy when it happens. There is no basis to assume punitive damages will be awarded here unless it comes out at trial that the zoo knew it was very likely that their design was unsafe and they acted instead to take their chances. Tim I firmly believe that you just don't understand how the justice system actually works in this country. I mean don't feel bad, the overwhelming majority don't understand it (probably because our schools do a poor job of teaching it). I didn't know how it worked until I got into higher education. It really is more complex and more fascinating than you think but it does cover some of the issues you think aren't being addressed. Litigation isn't "welfare". One of the components of litigation is that there must be an injury and it must be able to be redressed through compensation. Without that you have no case. Personal responsibility has not gone out the window. If anything people are more responsible now that they have ever been. Remember when people didn't have state mandated car insurance? or lesser penalties for DWI and hit and run? talk about irresponsible. Maybe the difference is that we didn't have a 24/7 news cycle to cover it all in minute detail the same way we do now. Sometimes you need government intervention to actually hold people accountable, they aren't going to do it on their own when it runs contrary to their self interest. Again, this idea that personal responsibility is eroding is not actually supported by any real facts - it's just your emotional reaction to stories because of how you feel about litigation.

Long and short of it Tim is the law doesn't support your position because it makes people take responsibility for their property and the guests who visit. You don't like it get the laws changed that say people are no longer responsible for guests on their property, but I can tell you the social implication of that is not better than what we have now. Litigation is just a method of resolving disputes. If you think there is too much litigation maybe you should be approaching the problem from the direction of reducing the number of disputes between people rather than punishing people who avail themselves of the government sanctioned method of dispute resolution. As much as people bitch about the process now, it is far and away more accessible than most other systems in other countries around the world. And honestly there still isn't enough access. The problem with the system is it is overtaxed because there are too many people who disagree and need a way of resolving their issues.

So they are just openly racist/sexist/misogynist/fascist? good to know. :dumb: Just because people are "silent" doesn't mean they agree with you. It does mean that they talk about you and others like you in some other medium (like real life) because one thing you can depend on is people are catty and cruel. I choose to speak up here because I don't like bullys or bigots but I know there are other members here that are laughing at what you have written here. As proof that you aren't worth their time they are not going to respond. Not that I think you are worth anybody's time either, but I don't want you to come away thinking things you say are ok because nobody called you out on your bigotry.

Don't assume it is a given. As you can see by others responses it isn't always assumed. Also when you say things that suggest you don't have empathy you can't rely on it being assumed. Nope, but I am willing to let the court system hear the evidence of actual experts (in addition to lay people) and make a decision and you aren't. It is the barrier between them and the animals, they are interacting with it even when they don't know it because they are separated from the animals. I think what you meant to say is they don't physically interact with it by testing it's limits, which is ok - some people's kids are more active or curious than others. they are kids (and I don't think either of them are 4), I don't know that any 4 year old understands the import of anything. Where would you like the parent of the year statue erected? not every kid is the same. Some are active and wild and some are not. there is no single formula to making all humans the same....yet... Lotta 600lb wild gorillas in those parks? Sort of. It's more about expectations. When you go to the zoo you expect the barriers that separate the people animals from the animal animals. When you go out into nature you don't have that expectation and it's up to you to prepare for a bear mauling if it happens. If you are going to take on the responsibility of exhibiting wild animals to large crowds of peoples, you take on the responsibility of maintaining that barrier and making sure it evolves with the crowds. Sign says you may get bit and the trainers verbally warn you when they hand you the lettuce. You were warned, your expectations were managed and you chose to participate despite the danger so it is not really actionable. but nice try.

I get it, empathy is something they seem to be out of stock on in ohio. You could just say black. I mean you don't know for a fact she is one welfare and abusing the system, do you? And if she was receiving public assistance (not abusing just receiving), what does it matter to you anyway? where do these assumptions come from? watching her speak on a video? stay classy San Diego. I don't think anybody has said there wasn't some fault here. The only difference is that you imply "only" and I don't. I'm pretty sure the articles indicate that all of her kids have the same father, so that really doesn't qualify as "the neighborhood". I mean he's a big guy but he ain't that big. Damn. really? my mentality. the one that isn't calling her a degenerate welfare cheat because they saw a 5 second clip on the news. And how do you suppose she do that? I mean she still has to take care of the medical bills, right? so how is that not taking responsibility? she still has care for the kid when Dr.s' and hospitals are not doing it, how is that not taking responsibility? After all the media hoopla is over she still has to deal with raising this kid, it isn't like she is going to give him away now? is it? yes because it's all the woman's fault that some dude came inside her and made a baby. Let's punish women for the gift of reproduction. Be serious man.

You call it a good track record, others might call that getting lucky, while still others might say it is evidence of how the zoo is not keeping up with the changes in society and the evolution of spectators at theme parks. It's not liberalizing anything to understand one of the actual purposes of our justice system is to actually force innovation, progress, or at least advancing minimum standards. It is not absolving the mother of any parenting obligations to say maybe the zoo also has a responsibility in this situation. Remember our trial system is a method of figuring this out. I think I found your problem. This is very subjective and judgmental and based on very little of what you know of the person's actual life. Thankfully it is just your opinion and not anything of actual merit.