MichaelS

The people of Toledo thank him for his prayers. The people of Dayton however would like some of those useless things as well.

On 3/1/2016 at 9:34 AM, Cdubyah said:

 

When you overtax people or corporations, they begin to move money offshore, as soon as, it begins to cut into the profit margin. Or, they find a loophole in the tax code that prevents them from losing money. When a person loses money, they try to plug that hole regardless of stature in society.
I don't dispute your numbers. But shouldn't that give someone making $25k more incentive to work harder/smarter to make a better living?  When did this nation flat out settle for $25k? When did that become the normal? I've been at $25k, and yes it sucked. But I didn't want to stop there.

When you begin to put the tax burden of the entire county on the top 1% of Americans, whether it be corps or individuals, those people are going to thumb their nose to the rest of the nation and stop producing. Liken it to a group project in school. You had the smart kid wanting to succeed (rich), the average student just wanting to pass (middle class), and the underachiever (poor) who thought school was dumb and a waste of time. The underachiever knew the other two would carry the weight of the project because they wanted to pass. So the smart kid, and the average student had to take on the extra work of the underachiever. Making it subsequently harder to reach the end goal. Sure they probably passed, but eventually, those kids would get burnt out from doing all of the work. The next project, or the 3rd project would likely have different results.

I'm quite far from your last assumption. People will always need a hand up, and I'm all for giving them one.
However, once a person makes a conscious decision to stop growing, learning, earning, because they get more from the government, my hand up now has become a hand out. Eventually, I will retract my hand because I feel that no effort is being made to stand up and walk along side of me.

The rich will continue to get rich, and the poor will continue to get poorer, because neither side is willing to compromise.

I get what you are saying about a disincentive to work but I don't think that has ever proven out in the numbers.  Even when the top tax rate was double what it is currently.  Some people look at the dollar figure and use that to argue the 1% pay their share or too much or whatever your opinion.  But when you start looking at percentages then you see the real story that they can pay a lower rate than someone that is making $70K a year which is not what I would consider rich. 

As for the low income person's incentive.  Everyone's story is different.  But I will say the current system is broken.  The system creating a disincentive to earn more.  It needs to taper off so there is still an incentive to continue to try to earn more.  As much as some on here probably think I'm some bleeding heart liberal I do think there should be limits.  Either time, dependents etc. 

Another thing to look at is why do people working 40 hours a week at a job still need government assistance?  Essentially us tax payers subsidize corporations more than people think about because they pay an artificially low wage then we pick up the remainder that people need to live.  Corporations should be billed for these services making them pay the true market wage. 

On 2/26/2016 at 3:05 PM, Tonik said:

So its the Boomer's fault their kids are bad parents?  Wouldn't it then be the Boomer Parents fault...they raised boomers to not be able to raise their kids? How far back do we og in assigning blame?  Adam and Eve, or some primordial ooze depending upon your god.

How about we blame the current parents since it is their fault.

Don't be ridiculous.  Now who doesn't want to take responsibility?  Sure looks like you. 

On 2/26/2016 at 3:34 PM, Tonik said:

You really have to ask that?  Someone else paying is what he thinks is far. Anyone, as long as it isn't him.

I pay my taxes so I don't know what the hell you are talking about. 

On 2/26/2016 at 3:32 PM, Cdubyah said:

God help me.....please define what is fair.

Everyone pays the same rate. You make more, you pay more. You make less you pay less. 
Loopholes closed, tax evasion averted. No more moving shit overseas, to dodge the tax man.

First there is no data I have seen that says corporations would still not move overseas. 

Second lets look at some numbers.  10% tax.  Person making $25,000, you take $2.5k on top of all the other taxes you still have to pay.  They now have at most $22.5k to live on, to save etc.  Second person is making $200,000.  You take $20,000.  They still have $180k.  Which one of these has to choose between food, shelter clothing because of the taxes?  Not the person making $200k.  What good is it to the economy, to our society to have 1/10 of the low income taken by taxes?  Is it fair to make someone have to choose between those things?  I certainly don't believe so. 

Maybe your definition of fair is your hand is your hand and if it sucks screw you we as a society don't give a crap. 

47 minutes ago, motocat12 said:

Our esteemed courts have decided, they're people who are legally required to maximize shareholder profits.

I am also a person trying to maximize profits.  Yet because I am actually a human I am treated worse than a corporation....that makes sense. 

34 minutes ago, Connie14 said:

A new flat tax on revenues for corporations (no deductions) and a flat tax on individuals would make thinks way more simple and fair. 

Flat taxes are inherently not fair.  Easy yes, fair no. 

48 minutes ago, Tonik said:

We boomers don't have anyone in school any more, they are not the kids he is talking about.  It's the kids your generation is raising that are the problem.

Boomer kids are the parents....

2 hours ago, durk said:

As far as people wanting to work. Not sure I agree with the post saying that they want to. I see a lot of laziness as a teacher, and as a coach. Kids are not taught the value of hard work and are often soft because too often they are just handed things. I blame poor parenting. I have to check my self at times as a parent. I want my kids to have a good life, but I don't want them to develop the entitled attitude many have. I grew up knowing the value of what it meant to work hard and earn what you wanted. This is the reason my kids now have steers they take to our fair so I can teach them what hard work is all about.

I will agree the boomers were not as good at raising good humans as their parents. 

2 hours ago, durk said:

OK been following this topic and by no means do I claim to be an expert nor do I have the answers. What continues to stick in my mind, however, is the money Burger King saved by relocating its headquarters to Canada. According to the Washington Post they stand to save 1.2 billion dollars in taxes by relocating to Canada. They went from being taxed nearly 40% in the states to just over 26% in Canada. It is no wonder companies move out. Our tax laws are jacked. I worked construction for my dad when I was in college and a few summers after as well. He basically payed me as I was a self employed sub-contractor. I was being taxed 30% of my income. That was rough. Would have been tough making a living make $15 an hour and being taxed at that rate. 

In todays connected world companies don't feel the need to contribute to the country that gave them the opportunity to succeed.  They instead take all they can then leave screwing that left behind.  I didn't frequent burger king much before that "inversion" but I refuse to go at all now.  Same thing with carrier.  I won't be purchasing their products anymore as they are moving out of the states so they can pay their top brass more and their workers less.  Who wants to bet the prices don't go down because of cheaper labor?  What happens is these same corporations get the benefits of doing business here but without paying their due.  Normal citizens don't get any such tax break.  Maybe I should just tell the IRS for tax purposes my headquarters is in Ireland but I work and make money here and therefore am entitled to pay less in taxes just like corporations. 

1 minute ago, Bad324 said:

and I have highlighted EXACTLY what the problem with this country is. Nobody wants to work hard for anything and wants it handed to them. 

I also find your second statement another issue with this society. A significant part is on them and only some of the blame can be placed on "things out of their control". Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own shit, it's always the man keeping them down. 

Screw that, get a job hippies

You are incredibly naive if you think people don't want to work hard.  What they want is that hard work to pay off.  In this country it hasn't.  Taking inflation into account wages for the lower three of five quintiles is pretty much flat since 1967.  If you are in that group you are not rewarded for working hard.  Your CEO certainly is rewarded for questionable work but you don't see the fruits of your labor.

2 hours ago, 330racing said:

Perhaps we should run the automotive aftermarket out of business through the EPA.  That should help!

 

Oh jeez not this again.  Give it a rest already.  Nothing says that is going to happen. 

3 hours ago, Bad324 said:

You said that people should actively make less money to pay less taxes if they don't like it. I'm saying if the poor don't like it they should make more money and pay taxes and see just how much people who do make a living and pay taxes are out of pocket because of their social programs and lazy asses.

It's not a different topic. You just choose to want to blame everyone other than the people that perpetuate their own misfortunes

It is far easier to choose to make less money than it is to make more.  So they are not quite the same thing.  Some of the blame for them staying in poverty is choices they make but a significant part is out of their control. 

22 minutes ago, Tpoppa said:

Terms limits are the FIRST step.  Over turning this is the second

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quickly-quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml

The list is incredibly long but I would add that gerrymandering your own districts is not conducive to actual democracy. 

41 minutes ago, Bad324 said:

No, you just make it sound as though it is impossible to better one's self due to "society, policies and history". I'm not going to waste my time on a bleeding heart because there are many, many examples of individuals who have come from a disadvantaged position in this country.

I'd also argue that among those policies were ones created to help those disadvantaged folk by politicians of your ilk. Somehow though they have only enabled them to continue to be disadvantaged and not pursue the routes that made America so great back in the day. So tell me, why can't they see that some policies they put in place are broken and doing exactly the opposite of what the intentions were supposed to be? (psssst the answer is: Votes)

So continue to believe that one side or the other is right and the other is wrong in a broken system. They all lie, deceive and prove hypocritical no matter what side of the aisle they are on. No politician gives a shit about you, me, or any other person for that matter. They just give a shit about their power and money and if you can't see that then I truly feel sorry for you 

I never said there are not some that make it out.  But clearly the vast majority do not.  Which is why it continues to drag on the economy.  And it is not about taxes which is why I originally said it is a completely different topic. 

1 hour ago, Connie14 said:

Is private insurance less efficient than the VA?

I see your VA and raise you a Medicare. 

Just now, Tpoppa said:

This was my biggest concern with Obamacare.  Anything DC touches is less efficient than private industry. 

I would not at all call our private insurance industry efficient.  In fact ours is one of the least efficient in the world, certainly the developed world. 

Well Bad if you think looking at facts is a bleeding heart then I feel sorry for you. 

1 hour ago, Tonik said:

What you say is absolutely true, except the part about taxes and bigger government being the answer. Name me one thing DC has ever done well? Everything they do is an unmitigated disaster. Full of waste, fraud and corruption and usually does more harm than good.

I don't know what the answer is, but DC isn't going to be part of it.

I would argue that special interests are the reason for that.  In todays congress special interests and companies draft these laws/bills not congress-people.  Maybe I am wrong but that isn't how it is supposed to work from my understanding.  Remove those and make congress do its' job and listen and be accountable to the people and I think things are much different. 

33 minutes ago, Connie14 said:

Increasing government bureaucracy and intervention into the economy slows economic growth.  The democratic-socialist & socialist economies of the world tend to have higher unemployment rates because of this.  If you want increased economic growth, you must minimize the inefficiencies that are borne out of the bureaucracy.

This makes little sense when companies take home record profits.  The numbers ie facts would say that is currently not an issue.  They have the money to pay their people more, to invest and hire more but they do not.  Because that would benefit those not at the top so they will not do it. 

12 hours ago, Connie14 said:

It doesn't matter how much you pay in taxes. Nobody can waste money like the government.  We are 7 years into a global economic expansion, yet we are still running a deficit. Government spending is not constrained by GPD growth of any other real constraints.

I think the numbers say we are not in a global economic expansion of any real measure.  "The 2008 financial crisis and subsequent “Great Recession” has caused hardship to many working women and men, families and communities. Since the beginning of the crisis the global jobs gap increased by 67 million. In spite of positive employment gains over the past years, global unemployment is still high and expected to approach 208 million people by 2015 and 214 million people by 2018. The challenge is greater in advanced economies and among the youth.

The incidence of long-term unemployment (which lasts 27 consecutive weeks or more) has increased in the majority of advanced and developing countries, while labor force participation rates have declined in most countries. The recession has also brought rising underemployment in advanced countries and vulnerable employment in developing countries. In 2012, 56% of all workers in developing countries were occupied in vulnerable employment, which carries high economic risk. "

We continue to run deficits because the economy is still junk.  Please see one of my previous posts as to why that is.  Cutting government spending isn't going to fix, but will certainly make worse. 

17 hours ago, Bad324 said:

Why?

Because it has nothing to do with taxes and much to do with society, policies and history. 

9 hours ago, whaler said:

Pretty sure his actions say...

We are not going to fund an organization that takes tax payer money to perform a questionable service, then engages in unethical "for profit" activities to line pockets.

LOL seriously?  Hi Carly!  Have you followed that case?  There was found to be no wrong doing on the part of Planned Parenthood and the criminals that took those videos were indicted based on a grand jury.  Please educate yourself. 

I suppose providing health services for women is questionable.  I think there are some Islamic countries in the middle east and Africa that think just like you. 

16 minutes ago, bowdog said:

I think it is funny that we are speaking of the one thing that Kasich has said and it blew up over night, yet Trump says some way off the mark things and nobody blinks an eye?!? Obviously just my opinion but if we have Trump as our next president things are going to go down hill fast. Is he smart ABSOLUTELY, would I rather have him doing my budget ABSOLUTELY, but to have him as our commander and chief is a scary situation for us young Americans.

I didn't even know he said anything.  Actions speak louder than words.  And his actions say women belong pregnant and in the kitchen.

9 minutes ago, ScubaCinci said:

I can't claim to be financially schooled enough to come up with a tax plan...my wife OTOH, certainly could.

Never fear Bernie has a plan!

 

Yes investing is poor economics.  That cartoon sure got that right.